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  Past Election What-ifs (US) (Moderators: The Chad Pygmy Marmosets, Apocrypha)
  Kennedy/Smathers vs. Rockefeller/Reagan vs. Wallace/LeMay-1968
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Author Topic: Kennedy/Smathers vs. Rockefeller/Reagan vs. Wallace/LeMay-1968  (Read 4783 times)
GPORTER
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« on: April 15, 2008, 04:24:49 pm »

Bobby Kennedy is not assassianated at the hotel. He wins the nomination barely on the first ballot at the DNC over Humphrey and McCarthy. Kennedy thanks his supporters and selects George Smathers as his running mate.

On the republican side, the stop Nixon movement works and there is no nominee on the first ballot in a race between Nixon, Rockefeller, and Reagan. Rockefeller prevails on the second ballot and he selects Ronald Reagan as his running mate.

George Wallace runs as an independent and he selects Curtis LeMay as his running mate.



Kennedy/Smathers: 249 Electoral Votes
Rockefeller/Reagan: 251 Electoral Votes
Wallace/LeMay:          38 Electoral Votes

You will be wondering about the big three in the north (Illinois, Indiana, and Ohio.) Illinois and Ohio were close in 1968. Wallace swings those to Kennedy. The people in Indiana will remember being comforted by Bobby when Martin Luther King Jr. was killed. Remember he announced King's death at a rally in Indianapolis. Missouri was close also in 1968 and Wallace helps Kennedy there.

The election goes to the house and Kennedy is elected President.
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Robespierre's Jaw
Senator Conor Flynn
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« Reply #1 on: April 15, 2008, 04:38:57 pm »

The people in Indiana will remember being comforted by Bobby when Martin Luther King Jr. was killed. Remember he announced King's death at a rally in Indianapolis. Missouri was close also in 1968 and Wallace helps Kennedy there.

Bobby Kennedy would not have won Indiana regardless of telling a group of supporters in Indianapolis that Martin Luther King Junior died. Remember Nixon did win Indiana by a big margin over HHH and Wallace in RL 1968: 50-37-11, so I doubt Nixon would lose Indiana to RFK in this scenario.

Arkansas and especially Lousiana would not have voted for RFK. In Lousiana, Wallace defeated his closest opponent Hubert Humphrey by 20 points.

I could go on for hours explaining why your map is incredibly wrong Mr. Porter but I won't. I will conclude by saying this map is incredibly flawed.
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GPORTER
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« Reply #2 on: April 15, 2008, 06:59:07 pm »

The people in Indiana will remember being comforted by Bobby when Martin Luther King Jr. was killed. Remember he announced King's death at a rally in Indianapolis. Missouri was close also in 1968 and Wallace helps Kennedy there.

Bobby Kennedy would not have won Indiana regardless of telling a group of supporters in Indianapolis that Martin Luther King Junior died. Remember Nixon did win Indiana by a big margin over HHH and Wallace in RL 1968: 50-37-11, so I doubt Nixon would lose Indiana to RFK in this scenario.

Arkansas and especially Lousiana would not have voted for RFK. In Lousiana, Wallace defeated his closest opponent Hubert Humphrey by 20 points.

I could go on for hours explaining why your map is incredibly wrong Mr. Porter but I won't. I will conclude by saying this map is incredibly flawed.

JFK won both Lousiana and Arkansas in 1960 and with the sympathy vote for the JFK Assassianation and the Kennedy name would win him over there. To add to that, he has a southern running mate. You should know that if you really know the way that the american electorate votes.

Go on, I want to hear all of you stupid comments.
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PBrunsel
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« Reply #3 on: April 15, 2008, 08:20:44 pm »

JFK won both Lousiana and Arkansas in 1960 and with the sympathy vote for the JFK Assassianation and the Kennedy name would win him over there. To add to that, he has a southern running mate. You should know that if you really know the way that the american electorate votes.

Go on, I want to hear all of you stupid comments.

Gporter,

You seem to have some dates wrong. 1968 was not 1960 by any stretch of the imagination. In 1960, the Solid South was still reliable for the Democrats, thus including JFK. By 1968, the Civil Rights movement (in which RFK was a major figure) had cracked the Deep South. Let me remind you that even with the sympathy for JFK, President Johnson lost Louisiana. He won Arkansas, that is true, but his Veep, Hubert Humphrey, failed to appeal to the voters in that state.

All in all, GPorter, I would wager that this is how this match up would have played out.



   
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War on Want
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« Reply #4 on: April 15, 2008, 09:07:41 pm »
« Edited: April 15, 2008, 09:09:15 pm by Evilmexicandictator »


Wallace destroys both RFK, and Rockefeller in the South, calling them both blue-blooded New England Liberals, who hate this nation's values. Many southernors flock to him, regardless of much of his radicalism and give him a good share of the country's votes. RFK performs well out West, but really fails in much of the rest of the country, even though he turns out the youth vote tremendously.
RFK: 212 EV's
Rockefeller: 207 EV's
Wallace: 119 EV's

The Election is tossed to the House, and Wallace plays kingmaker and makes Rockefeller President, but has himself Vice President.
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Robespierre's Jaw
Senator Conor Flynn
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« Reply #5 on: April 16, 2008, 01:03:43 am »



Robert F. Kennedy/George S. Smathers (D): 274 EV, 43% of the PV
Nelson A. Rockefeller/Ronald W. Reagan (R): 187 EV, 42% of the PV
George C. Wallace/Curtis E. LeMay (I): 53 EV, 13% of the PV
Others (Socialist, Freak Power, ect): 0 EV, 2% of the PV

Robert F. Kennedy defeats Nelson Rockefeller and George Wallace in this matchup. Pennsylvania and Florida go to Robert Kennedy narrowly, had Rockefeller picked up anyone or both of those states the Election would have went to the House.
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Kaine for Senate '18
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« Reply #6 on: April 16, 2008, 07:26:24 am »

The people in Indiana will remember being comforted by Bobby when Martin Luther King Jr. was killed. Remember he announced King's death at a rally in Indianapolis. Missouri was close also in 1968 and Wallace helps Kennedy there.

Bobby Kennedy would not have won Indiana regardless of telling a group of supporters in Indianapolis that Martin Luther King Junior died. Remember Nixon did win Indiana by a big margin over HHH and Wallace in RL 1968: 50-37-11, so I doubt Nixon would lose Indiana to RFK in this scenario.

Arkansas and especially Lousiana would not have voted for RFK. In Lousiana, Wallace defeated his closest opponent Hubert Humphrey by 20 points.

I could go on for hours explaining why your map is incredibly wrong Mr. Porter but I won't. I will conclude by saying this map is incredibly flawed.

JFK won both Lousiana and Arkansas in 1960 and with the sympathy vote for the JFK Assassianation and the Kennedy name would win him over there. To add to that, he has a southern running mate. You should know that if you really know the way that the american electorate votes.

Go on, I want to hear all of you stupid comments.

Are you phucking kidding me?  Our stupid comments?  Do you have any idea what you say?  You don't understand anything.  The sympathy vote, if there was one, was used up by 1964.  The election goes to the House, which elects Kennedy.

Rockefeller: 222
Kennedy: 206
Wallace: 110
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Bacon King
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« Reply #7 on: April 16, 2008, 01:10:02 pm »

The Election is tossed to the House, and Wallace plays kingmaker and makes Rockefeller President, but has himself Vice President.

This couldn't happen. In the event of no majority in the electoral college, the House picks among the top three candidates for President and the Senate picks between the top two for vice president. Since Wallace didn't get any electoral votes as a vice presidential candidate the Senate couldn't even consider him in the first place, doubly so considering his ticket wouldn't even be in the top two.

In addition, in OTL Humphrey and Nixon made a deal that if the election went to the house they would both pledge to support the winner of the popular vote. I wouldn't be suprised if something would have happened like that here.
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Lief 🐋
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« Reply #8 on: April 16, 2008, 04:33:53 pm »

The Election is tossed to the House, and Wallace plays kingmaker and makes Rockefeller President, but has himself Vice President.

This couldn't happen. In the event of no majority in the electoral college, the House picks among the top three candidates for President and the Senate picks between the top two for vice president. Since Wallace didn't get any electoral votes as a vice presidential candidate the Senate couldn't even consider him in the first place, doubly so considering his ticket wouldn't even be in the top two.
Ostensibly, Wallace would have his electors cast votes for Rockefeller/Wallace.
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Lincoln Republican
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« Reply #9 on: April 16, 2008, 09:11:44 pm »

Rockefeller whups the arrogant upstart interloper from Massachusetts, who thinks he is entitled to the Presidency.

Rockefeller/Reagan                 353
Kennedy/Smathers                 119
Wallace/LeMay                          66

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Robespierre's Jaw
Senator Conor Flynn
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« Reply #10 on: April 18, 2008, 12:09:26 am »

Rockefeller whups the arrogant upstart interloper from Massachusetts, who thinks he is entitled to the Presidency.

Rockefeller/Reagan                 353
Kennedy/Smathers                 119
Wallace/LeMay                          66



Winfield, back when I was young and naive, I used to believe you created good maps. This now proves that you don't, atleast in my mind. You are misunderestimating the power of a Kennedy, especially Bobby Kennedy. I highly doubt that he would do worse than what Old Hube did in RL (but that's another scenario and this is a different one). Please explain.
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HappyWarrior
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« Reply #11 on: April 18, 2008, 08:57:17 am »

Rockefeller whups the arrogant upstart interloper from Massachusetts, who thinks he is entitled to the Presidency.

Why would he do that to the son of his running mate?

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King
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« Reply #12 on: April 18, 2008, 05:18:48 pm »

Rockefeller whups the arrogant upstart interloper from Massachusetts, who thinks he is entitled to the Presidency.

Why would he do that to the son of his running mate?



Mitt Romney is Ronald Reagan's son?
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HappyWarrior
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« Reply #13 on: April 19, 2008, 10:17:23 am »

Rockefeller whups the arrogant upstart interloper from Massachusetts, who thinks he is entitled to the Presidency.

Why would he do that to the son of his running mate?



Mitt Romney is Ronald Reagan's son?

Whoops, thought it said Romney, well none the less, why would Rockefeller whup Mitt Romney?
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Lincoln Republican
Winfield
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« Reply #14 on: April 19, 2008, 01:01:42 pm »

Rockefeller whups the arrogant upstart interloper from Massachusetts, who thinks he is entitled to the Presidency.

Rockefeller/Reagan                 353
Kennedy/Smathers                 119
Wallace/LeMay                          66



Winfield, back when I was young and naive, I used to believe you created good maps. This now proves that you don't, atleast in my mind. You are misunderestimating the power of a Kennedy, especially Bobby Kennedy. I highly doubt that he would do worse than what Old Hube did in RL (but that's another scenario and this is a different one). Please explain.

Sorry, I made a mistake. 

The map should look like this.

Rockefeller/Reagan                     403
Kennedy/Smathers                       69
Wallace/LeMay                             66

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Хahar 🤔
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« Reply #15 on: April 19, 2008, 01:42:25 pm »

Rockefeller whups the arrogant upstart interloper from Massachusetts, who thinks he is entitled to the Presidency.

Rockefeller/Reagan                 353
Kennedy/Smathers                 119
Wallace/LeMay                          66



Winfield, back when I was young and naive, I used to believe you created good maps. This now proves that you don't, atleast in my mind. You are misunderestimating the power of a Kennedy, especially Bobby Kennedy. I highly doubt that he would do worse than what Old Hube did in RL (but that's another scenario and this is a different one). Please explain.

Sorry, I made a mistake. 

The map should look like this.

Rockefeller/Reagan                     403
Kennedy/Smathers                       69
Wallace/LeMay                             66



I seriously wonder if you believe what you say.
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Lincoln Republican
Winfield
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« Reply #16 on: April 19, 2008, 02:40:54 pm »

I will be posting a realistic map of how I believe this election would have turned out.
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HappyWarrior
hannibal
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« Reply #17 on: April 19, 2008, 06:53:56 pm »

I will be posting a realistic map of how I believe this election would have turned out.

This?

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Lincoln Republican
Winfield
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« Reply #18 on: April 20, 2008, 04:38:04 pm »

Rockefeller whups the arrogant upstart interloper from Massachusetts, who thinks he is entitled to the Presidency.

Why would he do that to the son of his running mate?



Mitt Romney is Ronald Reagan's son?

Whoops, thought it said Romney, well none the less, why would Rockefeller whup Mitt Romney?

You may want to consider registering for a remedial reading course.

The subject is Kennedy/Smathers vs. Rockefeller/Reagan.

The only arrogant upstart interloper from Massachusetts who ever ran for President in the history of the U.S. was one spoiled brat Robert F. Kennedy, given a plum cabinet job by big brother John F. Kennedy.

Mitt Romney didn't need a big brother handing him a plum political appointment on a silver platter, as Robert Kennedy evidently did. 

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Robespierre's Jaw
Senator Conor Flynn
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« Reply #19 on: April 20, 2008, 04:44:36 pm »

Mitt Romney didn't need a big brother handing him a plum political appointment on a silver platter, as Robert Kennedy evidently did. 

Mitt Romney needed a golden platter Wink.
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DownWithTheLeft
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« Reply #20 on: April 20, 2008, 04:49:14 pm »

George Smathers?  What does Gporter randomly surf Wikipedia for new people for his timeline?
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Robespierre's Jaw
Senator Conor Flynn
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« Reply #21 on: April 20, 2008, 04:52:13 pm »

George Smathers?  What does Gporter randomly surf Wikipedia for new people for his timeline?

DWTL, he dosen't believe in Wikipedia, citing that anybody can change it.
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Lincoln Republican
Winfield
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« Reply #22 on: April 20, 2008, 04:54:15 pm »

I will be posting a realistic map of how I believe this election would have turned out.

This?



Though obviously impossible, that would have been a sweet and well deserved result.
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Lincoln Republican
Winfield
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« Reply #23 on: April 20, 2008, 05:18:51 pm »

Rockefeller wins a close, yet undisputed, victory.

Reagan helps the ticket considerably in Virginia, Kentucky, Tennessee, Florida, Texas, Oklahoma.

The usually reliable Republican plains states, mountain states, southwest states, retain their party loyalty, and Reagan helps tip the balance in California, where he is very popular.

Ultimately, Rockefeller is viewed by the public as more prepared and more capable of handling the responsibilities of the Presidency than is Kennedy. 

Rockefeller/Reagan                     283
Kennedy/Smathers                      189
Wallace/LeMay                               66

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Lincoln Republican
Winfield
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« Reply #24 on: April 20, 2008, 06:31:12 pm »

Rockefeller whups the arrogant upstart interloper from Massachusetts, who thinks he is entitled to the Presidency.

Why would he do that to the son of his running mate?



Mitt Romney is Ronald Reagan's son?

Whoops, thought it said Romney, well none the less, why would Rockefeller whup Mitt Romney?

You may want to consider registering for a remedial reading course.

The subject is Kennedy/Smathers vs. Rockefeller/Reagan.

The only arrogant upstart interloper from Massachusetts who ever ran for President in the history of the U.S. was one spoiled brat Robert F. Kennedy, given a plum cabinet job by big brother John F. Kennedy.

Mitt Romney didn't need a big brother handing him a plum political appointment on a silver platter, as Robert Kennedy evidently did. 



Edit

But yes, I do see your humor here.

Good job.
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