Who is the greatest general
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  Who is the greatest general
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12th Doctor
supersoulty
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« Reply #100 on: April 16, 2004, 03:48:55 PM »

Soulty,

I am impressed with your knowledge of the Civil War.  I would be interested in hearing your thoughts on Rumsfeld's "transformation" program.  I am not a big fan of it, since I don't think Rumsfeld places enough value on manpower, and Iraq shows that manpower still matters.  I think he has also canselled some important weapon systems like the Commanche and the Crusader.

What are your thoughts?

Thanks, it a subject that I havebeen studying for most of my life.

I'm against Rumsfelds down sizing.  As you said manpower still matters.  And I think that the Commanche is a a solid weapon.  Canceling the program is a bad idea.  I believe that we do need some "lighter forces" to combat terrorists, but we need heavier forces for serious wars and situations like Iraq.
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StatesRights
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« Reply #101 on: April 17, 2004, 01:29:31 AM »

The ANV lost the war at the Battle of Five Forks. Once that spot collapsed the whole defense of Richmond was lost. That in my opinion is when Lee lost the civil war. Certain generals shouldn't have been worried about a shad bake, they should have been worried about those dern yanks.
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The Duke
JohnD.Ford
Junior Chimp
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« Reply #102 on: April 17, 2004, 06:06:30 AM »

I'd like to make a case for Tommy Franks as one of America's best generals ever.

His operation in Afghanistan was very impressive.  With little preparation in hostile terrain on the other side of the planet in an assymetrical war he took down the whole Taliban in two months.  In Iraq, American armor advanced farther and faster than any such force in history.  He's not the best, but he belongs in the discussion, I think.
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12th Doctor
supersoulty
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« Reply #103 on: April 17, 2004, 01:59:11 PM »

The ANV lost the war at the Battle of Five Forks. Once that spot collapsed the whole defense of Richmond was lost. That in my opinion is when Lee lost the civil war. Certain generals shouldn't have been worried about a shad bake, they should have been worried about those dern yanks.

By then, the election had already happened.  The ANV lost the war at the battle of North Anna.  Lee could have split and destroyed the AotP piece-by-piece but subordinate comanders failed to sring the trap he had set.
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CARLHAYDEN
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« Reply #104 on: April 18, 2004, 10:00:20 PM »

Okay so MacArthur wasn't that great of a General but you have to give him credit for being a great speaker.

I must beg to differ!  MacArthur was a genius!!!

As a young officer, he helped put together the famous Rainbow division.

As Superintendent of West Point, he brought the program of that great institution into modernity.

As Chief of Staff of the Army he preserved the Army from the severe cuts sought by FDR and the Congress.

As commander in the Philippines, his was the only major force which threw a monkey wrench into the Japanese schedule of conquest.

As theatre commander, he achieved more, with less in resources and fewer casualties than any comprable commander.

As the de facto ruler of a defeated Japan he presided over an effective case of nation building.

His landing at Inchon has justly been called a masterpiece of strategy.
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The Duke
JohnD.Ford
Junior Chimp
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« Reply #105 on: April 19, 2004, 12:00:28 PM »

Most of this has to do with McArthur's political skills.  As a general, his mistakes outweigh his achievements in my view.  Crossing the Yalu was bad strategy, Inchon was good strategy.  Its a wash.  The Philippines in 1941-1942 was bad, the island hopping campaign was good.  Another wash.  Trust me, Alexander, Scipio, and Frederick would have stayed south of the Yalu, and while the 1942 campaign in the Philippines ws almost unwinnable, those guys would have done better.
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CARLHAYDEN
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« Reply #106 on: April 19, 2004, 09:30:55 PM »

The yalu was NOT crossed by American or allied forces.  It was crossed by the Communist Chinese forces!
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KEmperor
Junior Chimp
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« Reply #107 on: April 21, 2004, 03:51:12 PM »

MacArthur may have been a good general, but he was by no means the greatest.  And he was an arrogant fool, who got himself relieved of duty, so that's not too impressive.
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CARLHAYDEN
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« Reply #108 on: April 21, 2004, 10:08:27 PM »

MacArthur may have been a good general, but he was by no means the greatest.  And he was an arrogant fool, who got himself relieved of duty, so that's not too impressive.

I pointed out facts of MacArthur's record, whereas you responded with vitroil.

MacArthur believed, as Churchill famously noted, the purpose of war is victory.  Truman was a dishonest politician who did not want to win that conflict.
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CARLHAYDEN
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« Reply #109 on: April 21, 2004, 10:10:07 PM »


If you want more information about MacArthur, suggest you read William Manchester's book, American Caesar.
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The Duke
JohnD.Ford
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« Reply #110 on: April 22, 2004, 01:16:42 AM »

My apologies for my mistatement, McArthur only threatened to cross the Yalu.

In any case, the idea that he felt entitled to make the threat to re-install Chang Kai-Shek without the President's approval demonstrates the arrogance of the guy.  He threatened the idea of civilian control of the military by ignoring Truman.

For every McArthur achievement, there were at least as many disasters.
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StatesRights
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« Reply #111 on: April 22, 2004, 01:18:13 AM »

He did make the best comment in modern history though. "Never fight a land war in Asia." Prophetic words.
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