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  Hillary booed at WV speech
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Author Topic: Hillary booed at WV speech  (Read 13305 times)
Brittain33
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« Reply #75 on: May 08, 2008, 05:30:17 pm »
« edited: May 08, 2008, 05:36:29 pm by asdf »

White people have voted for white candidates. They rarely get the opportunity to do otherwise, and unlike black voters, they have not established a record of crossing the racial barrier and voting for someone of another race.

Was Deval Patrick elected only by blacks?  J.C. Watts?  Doug Wilder? 

Congratulations, you identified examples that apply to approximately 4% of white American voters and are noteworthy for their exceptionality. Not only that, but you did so without reference to the very many African-American candidates who have run with white electorates--and lost.

Do you seriously want to argue that most white voters are just fine voting for black candidates regardless of race? Have you heard of the Bradley effect?

Quote
To not understand that the dynamics of representation are different for majority and minority communities is something to be worked on.

To not understand that black people are just as capable of being racist, where given the opportunity, as whites, is something to be worked on.

Again, a minority voting for a minority candidate in a winner-takes-all system, when they have consistently voted for members of the majority in other elections, is not racism.
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Brittain33
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« Reply #76 on: May 08, 2008, 05:32:51 pm »
« Edited: May 08, 2008, 05:34:22 pm by asdf »


Spurious. Obama gets a huge number of white votes as well.

Yes, and he's the first African-American candidate to do so consistently, following in the path of many who haven't and many others who knew better to even try, AND it's only in the Democratic primary. He's the exception that proves the rule, which is why it's such an historical event.

And as we've seen, there are plenty of white voters who refuse to vote for him because of race. Huge numbers. It's been assumed by all of us in the "gaming the state" series. How many black voters refuse to vote for white candidates, across the board? Think about that question and how laughable it is--if there was such a person, he couldn't be called a voter, because he would never have voted for President except when Lenora Fulani was running!
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SomeLawStudent
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« Reply #77 on: May 08, 2008, 08:11:13 pm »


You just dont seem to get the difference between Black people voting FOR Obama and white people voting against the black guy for racial reasons.

I said it elsewhere, I'll say it again.

Black people vote for black and white candidates, predominantly for white candidates. In the last, oh, ALL general elections where they were able to vote, they have voted for white candidates.

White people have voted for white candidates. They rarely get the opportunity to do otherwise, and unlike black voters, they have not established a record of crossing the racial barrier and voting for someone of another race.

For a black voter to have voted for white candidates all his or her life to be called a racist for voting for a black candidate is obscene.

To not understand that the dynamics of representation are different for majority and minority communities is something to be worked on.

How many majority black congressional districts have white congressmen?  How often do majority black cities like D.C. get a white mayor?  Yeah, when they don't have a choice they vote for the white guy, but often when there is a Black Democrat on the ballot they flock to that candidate in droves in both the primary and the general election.

The "raising the ceiling" argument only goes so far.  Washington, DC has had several black mayors.  Electing one after another is not raising any ceiling, so why do White Democrats never get elected Mayor there?  Is that racially motivated in a racist way?
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Sbane
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« Reply #78 on: May 08, 2008, 08:25:51 pm »


You just dont seem to get the difference between Black people voting FOR Obama and white people voting against the black guy for racial reasons.

I said it elsewhere, I'll say it again.

Black people vote for black and white candidates, predominantly for white candidates. In the last, oh, ALL general elections where they were able to vote, they have voted for white candidates.

White people have voted for white candidates. They rarely get the opportunity to do otherwise, and unlike black voters, they have not established a record of crossing the racial barrier and voting for someone of another race.

For a black voter to have voted for white candidates all his or her life to be called a racist for voting for a black candidate is obscene.

To not understand that the dynamics of representation are different for majority and minority communities is something to be worked on.

How many majority black congressional districts have white congressmen?  How often do majority black cities like D.C. get a white mayor?  Yeah, when they don't have a choice they vote for the white guy, but often when there is a Black Democrat on the ballot they flock to that candidate in droves in both the primary and the general election.

The "raising the ceiling" argument only goes so far.  Washington, DC has had several black mayors.  Electing one after another is not raising any ceiling, so why do White Democrats never get elected Mayor there?  Is that racially motivated in a racist way?

Yes black people vote as a bloc all the time I think we already established that. Now maybe I am wrong but perhaps the democrats always put up a black candidate and the republicans a white one and perhaps blacks vote 90-10 democrat like usual. As for the primaries it is possible that the most prominent members of the black community in DC would run for mayor considering they are a majority there, and thus would win the primaries and the general after that. I could be wrong of course i do not know much about DC politics. Except for Marion Berry. I dunno maybe there is something special about DC? Anyways you cannot deny Blacks have consistently not only voted for white candidates but have made them their own( i.e Bill). I do not think that has occured in national American politics for a black person till Obama. The closest would be Jesse Jackson but he truly was the black candidate. You are trying to cariciture Obama as that and you are wrong.
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Bleeding heart conservative, HTMLdon
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« Reply #79 on: May 08, 2008, 10:22:58 pm »



Congratulations, you identified examples that apply to approximately 4% of white American voters and are noteworthy for their exceptionality. Not only that, but you did so without reference to the very many African-American candidates who have run with white electorates--and lost.


Blacks are only 12% of the population you know.  I could have named plenty of white candidates who ran in African-American electorates and lost too.




Do you seriously want to argue that most white voters are just fine voting for black candidates regardless of race? Have you heard of the Bradley effect?


There are plenty of white voters who are anxious TO vote for a black candidate.

You do know that the Bradley effect term is almost 30 years old, right?



Again, a minority voting for a minority candidate in a winner-takes-all system, when they have consistently voted for members of the majority in other elections, is not racism.


If they are preferencing a candidate because of their own prejudice towards that race, then it is most definately racially prejudiced behavior.  This is simple common sense here.

I live in a majority-black county.  Would it not be racist for me to vote for a white candidate just because they were white?
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The Mikado
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« Reply #80 on: May 08, 2008, 10:56:10 pm »
« Edited: May 08, 2008, 10:57:56 pm by King Gama »



Congratulations, you identified examples that apply to approximately 4% of white American voters and are noteworthy for their exceptionality. Not only that, but you did so without reference to the very many African-American candidates who have run with white electorates--and lost.


Blacks are only 12% of the population you know.  I could have named plenty of white candidates who ran in African-American electorates and lost too.




Do you seriously want to argue that most white voters are just fine voting for black candidates regardless of race? Have you heard of the Bradley effect?


There are plenty of white voters who are anxious TO vote for a black candidate.

You do know that the Bradley effect term is almost 30 years old, right?



Again, a minority voting for a minority candidate in a winner-takes-all system, when they have consistently voted for members of the majority in other elections, is not racism.


If they are preferencing a candidate because of their own prejudice towards that race, then it is most definately racially prejudiced behavior.  This is simple common sense here.

I live in a majority-black county.  Would it not be racist for me to vote for a white candidate just because they were white?

No it would not.  For example, if I were South African, I'dve voted against the ANC in the last election...the opposition leader happening to be white...not for racial reasons, but because Thabo Mbeki's a piss-poor leader.
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Bleeding heart conservative, HTMLdon
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« Reply #81 on: May 08, 2008, 11:12:11 pm »



No it would not.  For example, if I were South African, I'dve voted against the ANC in the last election...the opposition leader happening to be white...not for racial reasons, but because Thabo Mbeki's a piss-poor leader.

ASDF is saying that it is okay for blacks to vote for racist reasons if they live in a majority white electorate.  I am asking if it is okay for a white to vote for racist reasons if they live in a majority black electorate.
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Brittain33
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« Reply #82 on: May 09, 2008, 07:07:13 am »

The "raising the ceiling" argument only goes so far.  Washington, DC has had several black mayors.  Electing one after another is not raising any ceiling, so why do White Democrats never get elected Mayor there?  Is that racially motivated in a racist way?

Black voters are and always will be a minority for Presidential voting. It's different from local elections. Yes, it was a breakthrough when black mayors were first elected in the 1960s. It isn't any more. This is a different stage of progress. You aren't going to compare the mayor of Washington, D.C. to a U.S. Senator or President.

There are many districts where black voters provide a plurality of support for white candidates. LA-06 is one; if Childers wins, MS-01 will be another. There, you have huge numbers of black voters turning out for conservative white candidates who disavow Obama. Seems pretty non-racist to me.
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Brittain33
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« Reply #83 on: May 09, 2008, 08:22:41 am »
« Edited: May 09, 2008, 08:25:34 am by asdf »

ASDF is saying that it is okay for blacks to vote for racist reasons

What I have said, and which I ask you to acknowledge if you are going to cite me by name, is that it is not racist for a minority group to vote en masse for one candidate, and that relations between a minority and majority are not and have never been symmetrical. This applies equally to federal elections (where blacks are a small minority) and Memphis city politics (where whites are a minority)

If you have any integrity or maturity, you'll talk with me about what I'm saying, instead of going off on a personal jihad that has no relation to my arguments.
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Brittain33
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« Reply #84 on: May 09, 2008, 08:24:56 am »

There are plenty of white voters who are anxious TO vote for a black candidate.

And there are, even at this late date, a number of black voters who voted for Hillary Clinton over Barack Obama. Several months ago, when Obama had emerged as a viable candidate and before Bill Clinton had started outright insulting black voters, a large number of them were supportive of Hillary Clinton over Barack Obama.

Obviously you're scarred by whatever politics goes on in your part of the country and you're having fun being "the most partisan member" here or whatever, but I have to ask you to step back from that and take a look at the bigger picture.
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Brittain33
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« Reply #85 on: May 09, 2008, 08:26:31 am »
« Edited: May 09, 2008, 08:34:37 am by asdf »

I live in a majority-black county.  Would it not be racist for me to vote for a white candidate just because they were white?

Given that you do so, you've given away the game. You're saying that Democratic voters for Barack Obama are as racist as... you. Meanwhile, you've identified reasons why you'd support a white candidate that have nothing to do with racism.
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Bleeding heart conservative, HTMLdon
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« Reply #86 on: May 09, 2008, 01:03:16 pm »

Obviously you're scarred by whatever politics goes on in your part of the country

Thanks for the lecture, Professor Obama.  I guess that's what people like me that cling to guns and religion do I guess.


Given that you do so, you've given away the game. You're saying that Democratic voters for Barack Obama are as racist as... you. Meanwhile, you've identified reasons why you'd support a white candidate that have nothing to do with racism.

Excuse me?  I was giving a hypothetical to show how ridiculous your argument is.  I've voted for numerous black candidates over white ones because I vote for people who share my principles.  A black person voting for another black person because they are black is just as stupid as a white person voting for another white person because they are white.
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Brittain33
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« Reply #87 on: May 09, 2008, 01:11:26 pm »

Excuse me?  I was giving a hypothetical to show how ridiculous your argument is.  I've voted for numerous black candidates over white ones because I vote for people who share my principles.

And black voters have voted for numerous white candidates who share their principles, and are choosing to vote for a black candidate who shares their principles. In fact, the most common event has been for black voters to vote for a white candidate who doesn't share their principles, because that was the best that's on offer.
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Bleeding heart conservative, HTMLdon
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« Reply #88 on: May 09, 2008, 04:14:26 pm »

Excuse me?  I was giving a hypothetical to show how ridiculous your argument is.  I've voted for numerous black candidates over white ones because I vote for people who share my principles.

And black voters have voted for numerous white candidates who share their principles, and are choosing to vote for a black candidate who shares their principles. In fact, the most common event has been for black voters to vote for a white candidate who doesn't share their principles, because that was the best that's on offer.

They are choosing the black candidate that shares their principles over the white candidate that shares their principles at about a 90% clip.  Having a prejudice based on race is racial prejudice.
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Brittain33
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« Reply #89 on: May 09, 2008, 04:19:55 pm »

They are choosing the black candidate that shares their principles over the white candidate that shares their principles at about a 90% clip.  Having a prejudice based on race is racial prejudice.

She was doing well among black voters until her husband started saying that black votes didn't really count because of Jesse Jackson and when she drew parallels with MLK and LBJ that a black voter might not have made. It's not just ticking boxes on policy, it's making frankly offensive comments that it is not racist to respond to. I agreed with Obama on most issues in February '08, but his handling of Donnie McClurkin was a dealbreaker that indicated he was not identical in political views with a gay Democrat.

The Clintons, Bill and Hillary, had a lot of goodwill among black voters that got them a lot of endorsements and a solid base of support at the start of the primary. They started to blow through that goodwill before a state with more than a tiny black population voted and then, when the black vote started moving en masse to Obama, they wrote them off and really didn't care how they insulted black voters.

You're not looking at the big picture. Obama did a lot to win black voters simply by proving his viability. However, they were far from the first group to embrace his candidacy, ESPECIALLY not among African-American leaders, and Hillary did her part to chase them away.
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The love that set me free
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« Reply #90 on: March 21, 2009, 01:55:34 am »

LOL.

Remember SomeLawStudent? What a great troll.
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Eraserhead
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« Reply #91 on: March 23, 2009, 05:23:13 am »

LOL.

Remember SomeLawStudent? What a great troll.

Not really. I miss this board though... so many fun times.
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