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  Hillary booed at WV speech (search mode)
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Author Topic: Hillary booed at WV speech  (Read 13294 times)
Brittain33
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« on: May 08, 2008, 09:10:41 am »

It is a university town in the West Virginia panhandle, the most likely place for this to occur. But completely unnecessary. I think this reflects poorly on the university students. If they do not want to hear her speak they do not have to go. I think it is ironic that one sign read "end the dynasty" when the Clintons are no dynasty, multi-generationally speaking, and likely will never be one. It is also ironic given the smooth ride the current President, who comes from a real dynasty, was given on his path to the White House in 2000.

I agree with you in part--Hillary Clinton is no George W. Bush, although of course there is something of a dynastic approach going on with people voting for her "remembering the good times of the '90s"--but I have to disagree about your assessment of the future. Chelsea Clinton has been behaving so well for so long that she has to be keeping her options open for elected office in the future. I don't doubt her parents raised to keep a long view of events and to behave like a politician. She's a lot like Libby Pataki.

The Bush daughters, meanwhile, don't appear to be building toward elected politics, and God bless them because they deserve some normality in their lives.
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Brittain33
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« Reply #1 on: May 08, 2008, 09:11:56 am »


Most Obama supporters don't say this but there are a disturbing few on this board and among his general supporters in his his campaign who scream racism whenever someone is critical of Senator Obama. 

Really? Any time someone is critical of Obama, they'll "scream racism"? Which posters did you have in mind?
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Brittain33
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« Reply #2 on: May 08, 2008, 03:19:34 pm »

LOL - I could care less about some victim role. 

Sorry, but anyone who is dragging out this discussion by going on and on about how offended they are by random and fairly anonymous Obama supporters needs to face facts. Politics has lots of people saying stupid and mean things. What it does not have is one side full of good people, all with integrity, and another side full of bad, mean people.

If you're only pretending to be offended, that's even worse than actually getting upset.
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Brittain33
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« Reply #3 on: May 08, 2008, 03:34:13 pm »
« Edited: May 08, 2008, 03:35:44 pm by asdf »

One side has been a lot more rampant with the racist vitriol.  Sorry, but I'm not dragging out this discussion, I've been asked repeatedly why I don't like Obama and I happened to cite his supporters as one reason why.  People have made me explain that so I did.  Yes, I think the racists on this board are offensive, sorry if that upsets you that I don't support racism.

So if I find racists who are supporting McCain, you'll abandon him? Cool. The Internet's a big place, it should take me about five minutes to find a Freeper chuckling over the Heineken looter photo who talks about voting for McCain. If you give up supporting McCain, I'll admire your principle.

Try Ben Domenech at Red State, who dismissed Coretta Scott King as a communist and said no one should have cared about her funeral. He's a Republican. Are you offended?
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Brittain33
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« Reply #4 on: May 08, 2008, 03:34:55 pm »

No it isn't.  Because that politician has to pay back his supporters in some way, the same way special interest groups are paid back. 

How do you believe the Obama campaign is going to pay back random Internet posters to reward them for their posts?
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Brittain33
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« Reply #5 on: May 08, 2008, 05:09:26 pm »


You just dont seem to get the difference between Black people voting FOR Obama and white people voting against the black guy for racial reasons.

I said it elsewhere, I'll say it again.

Black people vote for black and white candidates, predominantly for white candidates. In the last, oh, ALL general elections where they were able to vote, they have voted for white candidates.

White people have voted for white candidates. They rarely get the opportunity to do otherwise, and unlike black voters, they have not established a record of crossing the racial barrier and voting for someone of another race.

For a black voter to have voted for white candidates all his or her life to be called a racist for voting for a black candidate is obscene.

To not understand that the dynamics of representation are different for majority and minority communities is something to be worked on.
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Brittain33
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« Reply #6 on: May 08, 2008, 05:30:17 pm »
« Edited: May 08, 2008, 05:36:29 pm by asdf »

White people have voted for white candidates. They rarely get the opportunity to do otherwise, and unlike black voters, they have not established a record of crossing the racial barrier and voting for someone of another race.

Was Deval Patrick elected only by blacks?  J.C. Watts?  Doug Wilder? 

Congratulations, you identified examples that apply to approximately 4% of white American voters and are noteworthy for their exceptionality. Not only that, but you did so without reference to the very many African-American candidates who have run with white electorates--and lost.

Do you seriously want to argue that most white voters are just fine voting for black candidates regardless of race? Have you heard of the Bradley effect?

Quote
To not understand that the dynamics of representation are different for majority and minority communities is something to be worked on.

To not understand that black people are just as capable of being racist, where given the opportunity, as whites, is something to be worked on.

Again, a minority voting for a minority candidate in a winner-takes-all system, when they have consistently voted for members of the majority in other elections, is not racism.
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Brittain33
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« Reply #7 on: May 08, 2008, 05:32:51 pm »
« Edited: May 08, 2008, 05:34:22 pm by asdf »


Spurious. Obama gets a huge number of white votes as well.

Yes, and he's the first African-American candidate to do so consistently, following in the path of many who haven't and many others who knew better to even try, AND it's only in the Democratic primary. He's the exception that proves the rule, which is why it's such an historical event.

And as we've seen, there are plenty of white voters who refuse to vote for him because of race. Huge numbers. It's been assumed by all of us in the "gaming the state" series. How many black voters refuse to vote for white candidates, across the board? Think about that question and how laughable it is--if there was such a person, he couldn't be called a voter, because he would never have voted for President except when Lenora Fulani was running!
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Brittain33
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« Reply #8 on: May 09, 2008, 07:07:13 am »

The "raising the ceiling" argument only goes so far.  Washington, DC has had several black mayors.  Electing one after another is not raising any ceiling, so why do White Democrats never get elected Mayor there?  Is that racially motivated in a racist way?

Black voters are and always will be a minority for Presidential voting. It's different from local elections. Yes, it was a breakthrough when black mayors were first elected in the 1960s. It isn't any more. This is a different stage of progress. You aren't going to compare the mayor of Washington, D.C. to a U.S. Senator or President.

There are many districts where black voters provide a plurality of support for white candidates. LA-06 is one; if Childers wins, MS-01 will be another. There, you have huge numbers of black voters turning out for conservative white candidates who disavow Obama. Seems pretty non-racist to me.
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Brittain33
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« Reply #9 on: May 09, 2008, 08:22:41 am »
« Edited: May 09, 2008, 08:25:34 am by asdf »

ASDF is saying that it is okay for blacks to vote for racist reasons

What I have said, and which I ask you to acknowledge if you are going to cite me by name, is that it is not racist for a minority group to vote en masse for one candidate, and that relations between a minority and majority are not and have never been symmetrical. This applies equally to federal elections (where blacks are a small minority) and Memphis city politics (where whites are a minority)

If you have any integrity or maturity, you'll talk with me about what I'm saying, instead of going off on a personal jihad that has no relation to my arguments.
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Brittain33
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« Reply #10 on: May 09, 2008, 08:24:56 am »

There are plenty of white voters who are anxious TO vote for a black candidate.

And there are, even at this late date, a number of black voters who voted for Hillary Clinton over Barack Obama. Several months ago, when Obama had emerged as a viable candidate and before Bill Clinton had started outright insulting black voters, a large number of them were supportive of Hillary Clinton over Barack Obama.

Obviously you're scarred by whatever politics goes on in your part of the country and you're having fun being "the most partisan member" here or whatever, but I have to ask you to step back from that and take a look at the bigger picture.
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Brittain33
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« Reply #11 on: May 09, 2008, 08:26:31 am »
« Edited: May 09, 2008, 08:34:37 am by asdf »

I live in a majority-black county.  Would it not be racist for me to vote for a white candidate just because they were white?

Given that you do so, you've given away the game. You're saying that Democratic voters for Barack Obama are as racist as... you. Meanwhile, you've identified reasons why you'd support a white candidate that have nothing to do with racism.
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Brittain33
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« Reply #12 on: May 09, 2008, 01:11:26 pm »

Excuse me?  I was giving a hypothetical to show how ridiculous your argument is.  I've voted for numerous black candidates over white ones because I vote for people who share my principles.

And black voters have voted for numerous white candidates who share their principles, and are choosing to vote for a black candidate who shares their principles. In fact, the most common event has been for black voters to vote for a white candidate who doesn't share their principles, because that was the best that's on offer.
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Brittain33
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« Reply #13 on: May 09, 2008, 04:19:55 pm »

They are choosing the black candidate that shares their principles over the white candidate that shares their principles at about a 90% clip.  Having a prejudice based on race is racial prejudice.

She was doing well among black voters until her husband started saying that black votes didn't really count because of Jesse Jackson and when she drew parallels with MLK and LBJ that a black voter might not have made. It's not just ticking boxes on policy, it's making frankly offensive comments that it is not racist to respond to. I agreed with Obama on most issues in February '08, but his handling of Donnie McClurkin was a dealbreaker that indicated he was not identical in political views with a gay Democrat.

The Clintons, Bill and Hillary, had a lot of goodwill among black voters that got them a lot of endorsements and a solid base of support at the start of the primary. They started to blow through that goodwill before a state with more than a tiny black population voted and then, when the black vote started moving en masse to Obama, they wrote them off and really didn't care how they insulted black voters.

You're not looking at the big picture. Obama did a lot to win black voters simply by proving his viability. However, they were far from the first group to embrace his candidacy, ESPECIALLY not among African-American leaders, and Hillary did her part to chase them away.
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