Characteristics of Fascism

[12th Doctor]

America-
1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism -- DEFINETLY (see Pledge of Allegance, flag burning laws)
2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights -- Yes (anti-gay, Abu Ghraib incedent)
3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause --  Somewhat (Osama Bin Laden, although justified, but unjustified support against Iraq, "liberals")
4. Supremacy of the Military -- Sort of(TV ads, possible draft)
5. Rampant Sexism -- Very little... I'l say no.

6. Controlled Mass Media -- I'd like to say so. I may be right.

7. Obsession with 'National Security' -- ABSOLUTELY!!!!!
8. Religion and Government are Intertwined --  Not yet...

9. Corporate Power is Protected -- WITHOUT A DOUBT

10. Labor Power is Suppressed -- Not really

11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts -- Not yet

12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment -- Yes

13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption -- MORE THAN ANYWHERE ELSE IN THE WORLD!!!!!
14. Fraudulent Elections -- Yes... Combination of Bush buying election in 2000 and the ploy to eliminate those who are right from the political process.

So America has approximately 8.5 out of these 14....

I challenge any of you damn "neo-cons" to step up and defend this dictator.

Because it should be 0.
 

I would certainly challenge all of you "damn" (using your word there) Libertarians to take that chip off of your shoulder.  The world is not out to suppress you.  You remind me of that guy from the Holy Grail "Help, help I'm being repressed".  You think that others are activly out to "put you in your place" and you fail to realize that the reason others talk you down is because you are being generally disagreeable.

Anyway, while neo-conservatism is certainly authoritarian on some issues it is far from facist.  Words have inpact it is your responsability to use them responsably.  That being said:

1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism -- No.  Patriotism and trying to bring on a sense of national pride and identification is not "Powerful Nationalism".  And since when is nationalism in it self a bad thing?

2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights -- No.  People are defended by the law in this country.  If we are so horrible, why are the ACLU and Amnesty International still around?

3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause --  No.  They provoked us and we are in a real war.  We do not go around identifying "Arabs" or "Muslims" as the enemy.  The enemy is "terrorism" a force that really seeks to do us harm.

4. Supremacy of the Military -- No.  There will be no draft.  We have commercials to recruit people into what most would deem an honorable living.  Is there something wrong with respecting the military?

5. Rampant Sexism -- No.  We do not force people into traditional rules as they did in Nazi Germany.

6. Controlled Mass Media -- The government doesn't control the media here.  If you want a good example of where this is going on, turn to France.

7. Obsession with 'National Security' -- In todays world, national security is important, but it is not the Bush teams only preoccupation.  In different times, idfferent issues are important because of events.  That doesn't mean "Facism" is upon us.

8. Religion and Government are Intertwined --  Don't know what they mean with this.  Usually facist regimes declare war on traditional religious institutions.

9. Corporate Power is Protected -- It's a free market.

10. Labor Power is Suppressed -- No.

11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts -- No.

12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment -- Here again we see "obsession" used as a criteria.  There is no "obsession" here.

13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption -- Not only is "rampant" far too strong a word, but both parties do it.

14. Fraudulent Elections -- The 2000 election obeyed both the Florida Constitution and the U.S. Constitution.  Later studies proved that Bush would have won, no matter the method applyed.  It is true that people were denyed the right to vote because of the "ex-con" confussion, but many who voted the other way voted in two states, so....

Shocked no one has responded to this yet.

[badnarikin04]

America-
1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism -- DEFINETLY (see Pledge of Allegance, flag burning laws)
2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights -- Yes (anti-gay, Abu Ghraib incedent)
3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause --  Somewhat (Osama Bin Laden, although justified, but unjustified support against Iraq, "liberals")
4. Supremacy of the Military -- Sort of(TV ads, possible draft)
5. Rampant Sexism -- Very little... I'l say no.

6. Controlled Mass Media -- I'd like to say so. I may be right.

7. Obsession with 'National Security' -- ABSOLUTELY!!!!!
8. Religion and Government are Intertwined --  Not yet...

9. Corporate Power is Protected -- WITHOUT A DOUBT

10. Labor Power is Suppressed -- Not really

11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts -- Not yet

12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment -- Yes

13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption -- MORE THAN ANYWHERE ELSE IN THE WORLD!!!!!
14. Fraudulent Elections -- Yes... Combination of Bush buying election in 2000 and the ploy to eliminate those who are right from the political process.

So America has approximately 8.5 out of these 14....

I challenge any of you damn "neo-cons" to step up and defend this dictator.

Because it should be 0.
 

I would certainly challenge all of you "damn" (using your word there) Libertarians to take that chip off of your shoulder.  The world is not out to suppress you.  You remind me of that guy from the Holy Grail "Help, help I'm being repressed".  You think that others are activly out to "put you in your place" and you fail to realize that the reason others talk you down is because you are being generally disagreeable.

Anyway, while neo-conservatism is certainly authoritarian on some issues it is far from facist.  Words have inpact it is your responsability to use them responsably.  That being said:

1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism -- No.  Patriotism and trying to bring on a sense of national pride and identification is not "Powerful Nationalism".  And since when is nationalism in it self a bad thing?

2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights -- No.  People are defended by the law in this country.  If we are so horrible, why are the ACLU and Amnesty International still around?

3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause --  No.  They provoked us and we are in a real war.  We do not go around identifying "Arabs" or "Muslims" as the enemy.  The enemy is "terrorism" a force that really seeks to do us harm.

4. Supremacy of the Military -- No.  There will be no draft.  We have commercials to recruit people into what most would deem an honorable living.  Is there something wrong with respecting the military?

5. Rampant Sexism -- No.  We do not force people into traditional rules as they did in Nazi Germany.

6. Controlled Mass Media -- The government doesn't control the media here.  If you want a good example of where this is going on, turn to France.

7. Obsession with 'National Security' -- In todays world, national security is important, but it is not the Bush teams only preoccupation.  In different times, idfferent issues are important because of events.  That doesn't mean "Facism" is upon us.

8. Religion and Government are Intertwined --  Don't know what they mean with this.  Usually facist regimes declare war on traditional religious institutions.

9. Corporate Power is Protected -- It's a free market.

10. Labor Power is Suppressed -- No.

11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts -- No.

12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment -- Here again we see "obsession" used as a criteria.  There is no "obsession" here.

13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption -- Not only is "rampant" far too strong a word, but both parties do it.

14. Fraudulent Elections -- The 2000 election obeyed both the Florida Constitution and the U.S. Constitution.  Later studies proved that Bush would have won, no matter the method applyed.  It is true that people were denyed the right to vote because of the "ex-con" confussion, but many who voted the other way voted in two states, so....

You're still trying to justify the substandard mission of neo-conservatism. My point was, we can live in a society where all of these are scoffed at instead of remanufactured in a lite rated-PG version and packaged to Americans as a true form of government in which watching over people is OK.

This really should not be debateable, yet here we are wondering whether or not these exist.

[M]

Soulty, you did a better job than I did. I just don't have time for this sort of thing anymore. I actually fo read the forum a lot more often than I post. I have discovered that while college is much more interesting and fun than high school, it is very time consuming.

[The Duke]

This list takes very general charactteristics that are not exclusive OR necessary for facism, then makes tenuous claims that the US fits all or most of these definitions based on broad generalizations and little evidence.

It is a silly list, and I shall henceforth ignore it.

[J. J.]

"Characteristics of Fascism" by Dr. Lawrence Britt

The 14 characteristics are:


1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism -- Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays.

2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights -- Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to 'look the other way' or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.

3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause -- The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial, ethnic, or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, 'terrorists', etc.

4. Supremacy of the Military -- Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.

5. Rampant Sexism -- The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Opposition to abortion is high, as is homophobia and anti-gay legislation and national policy.

6. Controlled Mass Media -- Sometimes the media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or through sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in wartime, is very common.

7. Obsession with 'National Security' -- Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses.

8. Religion and Government are Intertwined -- Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government's policies or actions.

9. Corporate Power is Protected -- The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.

10. Labor Power is Suppressed -- Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely or are severely suppressed.

11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts -- Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free-expression in the arts is openly attacked, and governments often refuse to fund the arts.

12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment -- Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses, and even forego civil liberties, in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations.

13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption -- Fascist regimes are almost always governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions, and who use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders.

14. Fraudulent Elections -- Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against (or even the assassination of) opposition candidates, the use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and the manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections.

1.  I have not heard Nelly's or Alicia Keys rendition of the Worst Wessel Song as of yet.

2.  No, due process is being respected.  Those people complaining about the Patriot Act giving the FBI the ability to get a court order to look at my library records don't realize that prior to it, the FBI could get a court order to look at my libriary records.  (Something like this did occur in the trial of Ira Einhorn for the murder of Holly Maddox.)

3.  After 9/11, I attended several programs about Islam, given by Muslims.  They praise for Bush calming the country and helping to defuse the situation.

4.  No, but the benefits are good.

5.  Do you have the address of the interment camp Dick Cheney's daughter is in.  Is she sharing a cell with Candice Gingrich?

6.  Well, the bloggers did shake up CBS pretty much, but that doesn't count.

7.  Yes, thank God!

8.  Well, Kerry is planning to go to church each Sunday before the election, but that doesn't count either.

9.  What's Martha Stewart's prison number?  What's Ken Ley up to these days?

10.  Well, they won't let convicted felons run them.

11.  No, I doubt if anyone could seriously call Condoleezza Rice anything but an intelectual.  Wasn't Farenhight 911 a big hit this summer? Aren't the liberals complaining about the Sinclair group running a documentary?   BTW, my "W 04" bumpersticker is just below my "Mensa" bumpersticker.

12.  We wouldn't have so many lawyers if it were.

13.  Hummm.  Well, didn't George's niece do some time?  George didn't appoint Jeb, or vice versa.  It's not like someone would lose a spouse and then hooked up with another one in same positio ... Well, it's not like Laura Bush lost a spouse and then hooked up with another one in the same position.

14.  All joking aside, if this were a facsist county, do you really think that a site like this with robust political discussion would exist, unfettered by government control?

[Redefeatbush04]

America-
1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism -- DEFINETLY (see Pledge of Allegance, flag burning laws)
2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights -- Yes (anti-gay, Abu Ghraib incedent)
3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause --  Somewhat (Osama Bin Laden, although justified, but unjustified support against Iraq, "liberals")
4. Supremacy of the Military -- Sort of(TV ads, possible draft)
5. Rampant Sexism -- Very little... I'l say no.

6. Controlled Mass Media -- I'd like to say so. I may be right.

7. Obsession with 'National Security' -- ABSOLUTELY!!!!!
8. Religion and Government are Intertwined --  Not yet...

9. Corporate Power is Protected -- WITHOUT A DOUBT

10. Labor Power is Suppressed -- Not really

11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts -- Not yet

12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment -- Yes

13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption -- MORE THAN ANYWHERE ELSE IN THE WORLD!!!!!
14. Fraudulent Elections -- Yes... Combination of Bush buying election in 2000 and the ploy to eliminate those who are right from the political process.

So America has approximately 8.5 out of these 14....

I challenge any of you damn "neo-cons" to step up and defend this dictator.

Because it should be 0.
 

I would certainly challenge all of you "damn" (using your word there) Libertarians to take that chip off of your shoulder.  The world is not out to suppress you.  You remind me of that guy from the Holy Grail "Help, help I'm being repressed".  You think that others are activly out to "put you in your place" and you fail to realize that the reason others talk you down is because you are being generally disagreeable.

Anyway, while neo-conservatism is certainly authoritarian on some issues it is far from facist.  Words have inpact it is your responsability to use them responsably.  That being said:

1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism -- No.  Patriotism and trying to bring on a sense of national pride and identification is not "Powerful Nationalism".  And since when is nationalism in it self a bad thing?

2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights -- No.  People are defended by the law in this country.  If we are so horrible, why are the ACLU and Amnesty International still around?

liberals