Texas Supreme Court: Return the Children

[Bono]

www.cato-at-liberty.org/2008/05/30/texas-supreme-court-return-the-children/

  Texas Supreme Court: Return the Children

Yesterday, the Supreme Court of Texas ruled that Child Protective Services (CPS) abused its discretion by seizing 468 children from the Fundamentalist Church of Latter Day Saints ranch in Eldorado. Eugene Volokh has a roundup of the legal analysis.

I wrote about this case a few days ago at NRO, but space limitations kept me from going into more detail about how the women and children were treated while in state custody. For those who have not followed this matter closely, the children were seized by CPS but the mothers were ”permitted” to remain with their children on the condition that they comply with all CPS rules and commands.

CPS invited some mental health workers to the various shelters to help care for the hundreds of children. The mental health workers were disturbed by what they saw of CPS’s treatment of the women and children, and their written reports corroborate the bitter complaints of the FLDS mothers. I don’t think the news media has given this aspect of the story the attention it deserves — so here are some excerpts from the various reports that have been made public:

    * “Women were constantly lied to about where their children [were] and when they could see their lawyers and about when they would be reunited with their children.”
    * “Constant reminders that the adult women were only guests and that they were not in charge of the children and what CPS did to them. [The children] belonged to CPS now and they could talk, interrogate, separate and treat them any way [CPS] wanted. This included physical exams and x-rays without [parental] supervision.”
    * “I sat with Audrey while three of her children were removed for six hours of questioning.”
    * “The children arrived healthy and happy and left sick and crying.”
    * “The door to the room was almost constantly open. Even when the women closed the door to reduce noise during naptime or to dress themselves or the children, it was almost immediately opened again [by a CPS worker].”
    * “The women were lied to and denied access to their attorneys.”
    * “At least 5 mothers reported that at night CPS [workers] circled their beds, held flashlight in their faces & then would sit inches away from them as they tried to sleep. Mothers reported that they were scared CPS would take their children during the night.”
    * “The CPS workers were openly rude to the mothers and the children, yelled at them for trying to wave to friends and family members in surrounding shelters, threatened them with arrest if they did not stop waving to others, continually reminded them that the women were guests only and could be made to leave if they did not cooperate, threatened the mothers with never seeing their children again if they did not cooperate, and ignored requests for anything.”
    * “The children were amazingly clean, happy, healthy, energetic, inquisitive, well behaved, and self-confident; while the mothers were consistently calm, patient, and loving with their children.”
    * “Living conditions in the coliseum were not conducive to good health for anyone, and the presence of hostile CPS workers who spied on them constantly, kept them awake at night by shining lights in their faces and talking and laughing created enormous stress for the mothers and children.  None of them slept well or enough.”
    * “Try to imagine all these children from age 1 to 12 years, left in that coliseum [separated from their mothers] with only CPS and [police officers] to care for them. The only others were mothers whom CPS decided were under 18 and kept in their custody along with their children. The floor was literally slick with tears in places. A baby was left in a stroller without food and water for 24 hours and ended up in the hospital. A 4 year old boy was so terrified that he snuck away and hid and was only found after the coliseum had been emptied the next day.”
    * “I witnessed a young mother named Rosinith be required by CPS to board the bus back to the ranch, though her young child was in the hospital with 104 degree fever and even though the child’s physician had personally requested the mother’s presence at the hospital. This event haunts me still, and I cannot imagine such a heartless act.”
    * “By the second day, I was ready to run in front of the CNN cameras to shout that there was a travesty happening inside those walls…. Of course I was cautioned not to interfere in a ‘crime scene investigation.’”
    * “I have always been proud to be an American and a Texan but this incident is not what America or Texas stands for and something must be done to undo the horrible injustice that has been done.”

CPS denies the allegations of mistreatment. But the excerpts above are eyewitness reports from objective/disinterested social workers that CPS invited into the shelters.

[Cubby]

Its sad that those children are going to be returned to those criminals (i.e. their "parents"). Lets hope they don't drug the kids like they do the women.

[JSojourner]

Its sad that those children are going to be returned to those criminals (i.e. their "parents"). Lets hope they don't drug the kids like they do the women.

Purely anecdotal here, but the Texas women bear a striking resemblance to a lot of the full quiver, home-schooling loons around these parts.

[Sam Spade]

Under the law as defined by statute and the facts as presented in this case, the obvious conclusion was what the courts did - i.e. return the children.

[JohnnyLongtorso]

Won't anyone think of the children?!

[7,052,770]

Goddammit, sending kids back to crazy abusive parents!?!

[CARLHAYDEN]

Its sad that those children are going to be returned to those criminals (i.e. their "parents"). Lets hope they don't drug the kids like they do the women.

A criminal is someone convicted of a crime, not merely someone with whom you disagree.

[7,052,770]

Its sad that those children are going to be returned to those criminals (i.e. their "parents"). Lets hope they don't drug the kids like they do the women.

A criminal is someone convicted of a crime, not merely someone with whom you disagree.

sexually abusing children makes one a criminal.

[CARLHAYDEN]

Its sad that those children are going to be returned to those criminals (i.e. their "parents"). Lets hope they don't drug the kids like they do the women.

Purely anecdotal here, but the Texas women bear a striking resemblance to a lot of the full quiver, home-schooling loons around these parts.

Hmm.

Home schooled students pretty consistently exceed the achievements of children who attend government schools.

[CARLHAYDEN]

Won't anyone think of the children?!

Please!

Knock of the stupid repetition of nauseous left wing rhetoric.

[CARLHAYDEN]

Its sad that those children are going to be returned to those criminals (i.e. their "parents"). Lets hope they don't drug the kids like they do the women.

A criminal is someone convicted of a crime, not merely someone with whom you disagree.

sexually abusing children makes one a criminal.

No convictions because the charges have not been proven.

Do you know about the background of the woman who made the phony phone call?

[CARLHAYDEN]

Goddammit, sending kids back to crazy abusive parents!?!

Harry, cursing does nothing to substantiate false charges.

What is it with you leftists assuming that anyone who disagrees with you is crazy/abusive.

[JSojourner]

Its sad that those children are going to be returned to those criminals (i.e. their "parents"). Lets hope they don't drug the kids like they do the women.

Purely anecdotal here, but the Texas women bear a striking resemblance to a lot of the full quiver, home-schooling loons around these parts.

Hmm.

Home schooled students pretty consistently exceed the achievements of children who attend government schools.

You're not familiar with the Christian Reconstructionist, Full Quiver cultists, I take it?  They almost all home school.  I'm not sure very many of them even allow their children to be tested by "big guvmint".  But if they did, I imagine the kids would do really well on mathematics, spelling and Bible memory verses.  They'd get almost all the history questions wrong.  And when it comes to science, they might do just fine until it came down to questions about dinosaurs being herded onto the ark by Noah.

But yeah, most of these kids are smart as whips.  Whip, being one of the operative words.

[7,052,770]

Goddammit, sending kids back to crazy abusive parents!?!

Harry, cursing does nothing to substantiate false charges.

What is it with you leftists assuming that anyone who disagrees with you is crazy/abusive.

There are numerous pregnant girls under the age on consent there.  Having sex with someone that young is abuse.

[CARLHAYDEN]

Its sad that those children are going to be returned to those criminals (i.e. their "parents"). Lets hope they don't drug the kids like they do the women.

Purely anecdotal here, but the Texas women bear a striking resemblance to a lot of the full quiver, home-schooling loons around these parts.

Hmm.

Home schooled students pretty consistently exceed the achievements of children who attend government schools.

You're not familiar with the Christian Reconstructionist, Full Quiver cultists, I take it?  They almost all home school.  I'm not sure very many of them even allow their children to be tested by "big guvmint".  But if they did, I imagine the kids would do really well on mathematics, spelling and Bible memory verses.  They'd get almost all the history questions wrong.  And when it comes to science, they might do just fine until it came down to questions about dinosaurs being herded onto the ark by Noah.

But yeah, most of these kids are smart as whips.  Whip, being one of the operative words.

As you know, I'm not a fan of the nut case holly rollers (Huckabee is an example), but, it seems to me that you are typical of the intolerant lefties who likes to label christians with whom they disagree "cultists."

Second, yes, you do "imagine" at lot of things which simply aren't true. 

Tell me, where did you get the part about "dinosaurs being hered onto the Ark by Noah"?  Never heard that one before. 

I realize that you are offended by those who don't worship at the altar of big government, but, last time I checked, will still have some vestiages of "free excercise," and you may worship big government, but other still may worship a higher authority, even if it offends you.

[CARLHAYDEN]

Goddammit, sending kids back to crazy abusive parents!?!

Harry, cursing does nothing to substantiate false charges.

What is it with you leftists assuming that anyone who disagrees with you is crazy/abusive.

There are numerous pregnant girls under the age on consent there.  Having sex with someone that young is abuse.

Harry,

There were a number of claims by CPS of pregnant minor first, but, if you carefully check, those claims have been quietly withdrawn as CPS repeatedly goofed up on the ages.

[Flying Dog]

Wow. This is just completely wrong. Nice going Texas.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

    * “Women were constantly lied to about where their children [were] and when they could see their lawyers and about when they would be reunited with their children.”
    * “Constant reminders that the adult women were only guests and that they were not in charge of the children and what CPS did to them. [The children] belonged to CPS now and they could talk, interrogate, separate and treat them any way [CPS] wanted. This included physical exams and x-rays without [parental] supervision.”
    * “I sat with Audrey while three of her children were removed for six hours of questioning.”
    * “The children arrived healthy and happy and left sick and crying.”
    * “The door to the room was almost constantly open. Even when the women closed the door to reduce noise during naptime or to dress themselves or the children, it was almost immediately opened again [by a CPS worker].”
    * “The women were lied to and denied access to their attorneys.”
    * “At least 5 mothers reported that at night CPS [workers] circled their beds, held flashlight in their faces & then would sit inches away from them as they tried to sleep. Mothers reported that they were scared CPS would take their children during the night.”
    * “The CPS workers were openly rude to the mothers and the children, yelled at them for trying to wave to friends and family members in surrounding shelters, threatened them with arrest if they did not stop waving to others, continually reminded them that the women were guests only and could be made to leave if they did not cooperate, threatened the mothers with never seeing their children again if they did not cooperate, and ignored requests for anything.”
    * “The children were amazingly clean, happy, healthy, energetic, inquisitive, well behaved, and self-confident; while the mothers were consistently calm, patient, and loving with their children.”
    * “Living conditions in the coliseum were not conducive to good health for anyone, and the presence of hostile CPS workers who spied on them constantly, kept them awake at night by shining lights in their faces and talking and laughing created enormous stress for the mothers and children.  None of them slept well or enough.”
    * “Try to imagine all these children from age 1 to 12 years, left in that coliseum [separated from their mothers] with only CPS and [police officers] to care for them. The only others were mothers whom CPS decided were under 18 and kept in their custody along with their children. The floor was literally slick with tears in places. A baby was left in a stroller without food and water for 24 hours and ended up in the hospital. A 4 year old boy was so terrified that he snuck away and hid and was only found after the coliseum had been emptied the next day.”
    * “I witnessed a young mother named Rosinith be required by CPS to board the bus back to the ranch, though her young child was in the hospital with 104 degree fever and even though the child’s physician had personally requested the mother’s presence at the hospital. This event haunts me still, and I cannot imagine such a heartless act.”
    * “By the second day, I was ready to run in front of the CNN cameras to shout that there was a travesty happening inside those walls…. Of course I was cautioned not to interfere in a ‘crime scene investigation.’”
    * “I have always been proud to be an American and a Texan but this incident is not what America or Texas stands for and something must be done to undo the horrible injustice that has been done.”

Are these allegations true [qm]. (I don't ask in a hostile way, at all, but out of curiosity). Because if they are, then, um... do the child protection people have much room for making allegations of abuse [qm].

[JSojourner]

Its sad that those children are going to be returned to those criminals (i.e. their "parents"). Lets hope they don't drug the kids like they do the women.

Purely anecdotal here, but the Texas women bear a striking resemblance to a lot of the full quiver, home-schooling loons around these parts.

Hmm.

Home schooled students pretty consistently exceed the achievements of children who attend government schools.

You're not familiar with the Christian Reconstructionist, Full Quiver cultists, I take it?  They almost all home school.  I'm not sure very many of them even allow their children to be tested by "big guvmint".  But if they did, I imagine the kids would do really well on mathematics, spelling and Bible memory verses.  They'd get almost all the history questions wrong.  And when it comes to science, they might do just fine until it came down to questions about dinosaurs being herded onto the ark by Noah.

But yeah, most of these kids are smart as whips.  Whip, being one of the operative words.

As you know, I'm not a fan of the nut case holly rollers (Huckabee is an example), but, it seems to me that you are typical of the intolerant lefties who likes to label christians with whom they disagree "cultists."

Second, yes, you do "imagine" at lot of things which simply aren't true. 

Tell me, where did you get the part about "dinosaurs being hered onto the Ark by Noah"?  Never heard that one before. 

I realize that you are offended by those who don't worship at the altar of big government, but, last time I checked, will still have some vestiages of "free excercise," and you may worship big government, but other still may worship a higher authority, even if it offends you.

I got the one about Dinosaurs from the Evangelical Institute for Creation Research and Bob Jones University, both of which eagerly supply "curriculum" to home school cultists.  I did not say all home schoolers were cultists.  I did not say all Evangelicals were cultists.  I referred to home-school, full quiver, Christian Reconstructionist cultists.

If you are not familiar with Christian Reconstructionism, I wouldn't be speaking in defense of it.  Google Christian Reconstructionism and the names Gary North, Rousas Rushdoony, David Chilton and perhaps Texx Mars.  Have fun.  If you read what these people have written and can say you don't believe they are dangerous, crazy or cult-like...then you're not playing with a full deck.

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

In today's world, if you spank your kid on the ass at the supermarket cause he's having a hissy-fit, Children and Youth Services will come knocking on your door to see if you're a fit parent.

If there was a shred of evidence against these people for the abuses "alleged" in the media, what do you think the Court would have done?   

The fact that EVERY CHILD taken can go home, means there wasn't even the evidence of a bruise or mark on these kids, not mention no evidence of far worse atrocities.

Taking away someones parental rights demands SOME evidence......none exists here apparently.

[CARLHAYDEN]

There's a nice, detailed article about the nut case who made the phony calls that started the proceedings:

http://www.sltrib.com/ci_9439383

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Texas becomes a f**king joke yet again.

These folks should just be happy I'm not the Governor of a state where one of their little hellholes is based, because if I was, every single adult member would be locked up and their property would be permanently seized. Might I also add that the Minneapolis branch of the Church of Scientology better hope I never get elected mayor.

[A18]

As should those with any ties to Minneapolis whatsoever.

[specific_name]

I love how fully Democrats embrace authoritarianism. It's hilarious because they don't even seem to recognize it.

[CARLHAYDEN]

I love how fully Democrats embrace authoritarianism. It's hilarious because they don't even seem to recognize it.

Lets qualify that a little.

Many on the left are quite intolerant.