"American" Ancestry

[Stranger in a strange land]

The phenomenon of claiming "American" as one's ancestry seems to be very widespread in the South, border states, and Appalachia:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/45/Census-2000-Data-Top-US-Ancestries-by-County.jpg

I'm assuming these are the descendants of early settlers. If that's the case, then why do New Englanders more typically identify as "English"? Did more scots and scots-irish settle in the south? Is the American ethnic group basically what the Aussies refer to as "Anglo-Celtic"?

[Joe Republic]

I was wondering about this too.  I would have thought that their ancestry has been blended from all over, which I guess means that they may well be descended from the settlers.

[Alcon]

I always thought it was more of a "redneck" patriotic identity sort of thing, mostly among working-class Anglos (Scots and Scots-Irish, primarily).  The distinction has always been presented to me as more sociocultural than ethnic.  Basically, they're white-bread, their families have been here forever, damn it, they're Americans.

[nclib]

I always thought it was more of a "redneck" patriotic identity sort of thing, mostly among working-class Anglos (Scots and Scots-Irish, primarily).  The distinction has always been presented to me as more sociocultural than ethnic.  Basically, they're white-bread, their families have been here forever, damn it, they're Americans.

It does appear to be a sociocultural phenomenon among rural, working-class, conservative whites. There was a thread a while back comparing Kerry/Bush voting with ancestry plurality by county, and an overwhelming percentage of counties with an American ancestry plurality voted for Bush. Perhaps liberals and those in urban areas are more likely to trace ancestry back to Europe and/or identuify with another ethnic/religious/cultural group.

[jimrtex]

The phenomenon of claiming "American" as one's ancestry seems to be very widespread in the South, border states, and Appalachia:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/45/Census-2000-Data-Top-US-Ancestries-by-County.jpg

I'm assuming these are the descendants of early settlers. If that's the case, then why do New Englanders more typically identify as "English"? Did more scots and scots-irish settle in the south? Is the American ethnic group basically what the Aussies refer to as "Anglo-Celtic"?

In censuses a few decades back, many of these people would identify as Scotch-Irish or Irish.  Many of the most heavily Irish-ancestry counties were in Mississippi and Massachusetts.  Generally, their ancestors had been part of the plantation of Ulster in the 17th Century largely from Scotland, and had immigrated to America in the 18th century before the US Revolution and had largely settled from Pennyslvania southward, particularly in the Upland South.

The name that one uses for "ancestry" may be more one of cultural identity than geneaology.  "Irish" may have been adopted to provide a distinction from the coastal "English".  While after the US Revolution, these latter groups might not have wanted to emphasize their "Englishness", it would have been OK to be "Irish".  This is probably why there are more people who claim German and Irish ancestry than English ancestry in the USA.  After Irish Catholics began immigrating to the USA in the mid-19th Century, "Scotch-Irish" became more prevalent.  More recently "American" or "USA" has become more common, in part in reaction to hyphenated-Americans.  But it might be more accurate.  After 10 generations, you may have as many as 1024 8-great-grandparents.  If you knew where they were all from, you could give an ancestral breakdown to 1/10 of 1% accuracy.

In earlier censuses, people were not asked for their ancestry, but rather where their parents were born.  As more and more people started specifiying Ohio or New York or Pennsylvania, the "ancestry" question was added.

[Sam Spade]

Threads about the ancestors of Sam Spade always fascinate Sam Spade. 

jimrtex is generally correct about the evolution of these people - I don't really have that much to add or correct that is worth mentioning.

[Keystone Phil]

I noticed this as well. I always figured that they were English. It's funny how this is so common in the south and Appalachia. I was always curious about the ancestry of these types and I'm not shocked at all that these types would insist that they are "American" and nothing else.

[Torie]

The folks who identify themselves as of "English" ancestry tend to be mostly Mormons who know, and in huge numbers came to the States from the rough conditions in the textile mills in the Manchester area in the mid 19th century. My genes appear to come all from the island of Great Britain (English, Welsh and Scottish), so what do I identify myself as?  Great British? Yankee WASP seems a better fit, even though one branch were slavers from Virginia, but that little embarrassment need not be cataloged (my great grandfather fled from Norfolk to Brooklyn of all places after the rebel states lost the war ). Ya Spade, my Dad was a Brooklyn boy.

[Sam Spade]

Yankee WASP seems a better fit, even though one branch were slavers from Virginia, but that little embarrassment need not be cataloged (my great grandfather fled from Norfolk to Brooklyn of all places after the rebel states lost the war ). Ya Spade, my Dad was a Brooklyn boy.

Makes total sense.  I actually know a Brooklyn guy whose ancestors were involved in Southern shipping interests prior to the Civil War and fled to Brooklyn after the war was over.

[Torie]

I always thought it was more of a "redneck" patriotic identity sort of thing, mostly among working-class Anglos (Scots and Scots-Irish, primarily).  The distinction has always been presented to me as more sociocultural than ethnic.  Basically, they're white-bread, their families have been here forever, damn it, they're Americans.

Wait a minute. The Scottish who came from Scotland are the richest ethnic group in the US (well maybe the Indians are now, but both are ahead of the Jews), and knew how to make and invest money (the true sons of Adam Smith), and the Scots-Irish were the detritus who were shipped from Scotland by Prince William  to Antrim to put down the natives there (thus the moniker "Orange men,") and then were "invited" to the US to  "pacify"  the natives here. There were skilled with the gun, and had a pugilistic nature. My great, or maybe great great grandfather (probably the latter), was an engineer from Scotland, who moved to Montreal, and fabricated  the steam engine that was used for the first steamship that crossed the Atlantic. That is where the money gene came from perhaps for my clan.

One of my most brilliant professors in law school, and one of the fathers of the uniform  commercial code, was Scots-Irish, and an ex fighter pilot (and still looked like a lean, mean fighting machine), and he always wore an orange tie on St. Patrick's day.

[StateBoiler]

To be bluntly honest, most whites just don't know where they're from. Or are just such a mutt that it's impossible to tell. My dad's family is supposedly Irish (although we're not sure, there's no family bible and the basis of our ancestry was my great-grandfather who supposedly said once "we're Irish"; most likely I think we're Scotch-Irish) and my mom's family is German. What am I supposed to mark on the census sheet? Plus, my mom's family has been here since before the Revolution, and my dad's family has been here a minimum of 120 years at least. At some point after so many generations you cease being Irish or German or whatever and you just have to put down "American".

I should mark down I'm a Tarheel that is the son of Hoosiers.

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Don't worry, everyone owned slaves. Even a good number of blacks did in the area I'm from.

[ilikeverin]

To be bluntly honest, most whites just don't know where they're from. Or are just such a mutt that it's impossible to tell. My dad's family is supposedly Irish (although we're not sure, there's no family bible and the basis of our ancestry was my great-grandfather who supposedly said once "we're Irish"; most likely I think we're Scotch-Irish) and my mom's family is German.

I've found that looking at last names of ancestors helps.  My mom claims she's 100% Irish, but based on last names and recollections of accents (and also the fact that my maternal grandmother was Presbyterian before she converted to Catholicism to marry my maternal grandfather) it would seem that she's at most 25% Irish and at least 75% Scotsmen-who-oppressed-the-Irish-and-then-went-to-America-and-blended-in-with-the-other-Irish-Americans.

[StateBoiler]

To be bluntly honest, most whites just don't know where they're from. Or are just such a mutt that it's impossible to tell. My dad's family is supposedly Irish (although we're not sure, there's no family bible and the basis of our ancestry was my great-grandfather who supposedly said once "we're Irish"; most likely I think we're Scotch-Irish) and my mom's family is German.

I've found that looking at last names of ancestors helps.  My mom claims she's 100% Irish, but based on last names and recollections of accents (and also the fact that my maternal grandmother was Presbyterian before she converted to Catholicism to marry my maternal grandfather) it would seem that she's at most 25% Irish and at least 75% Scotsmen-who-oppressed-the-Irish-and-then-went-to-America-and-blended-in-with-the-other-Irish-Americans.

Based on my last name, it's either Irish, English, or Welsh.

Ooh, I forgot, I also am part Cherokee.

[minionofmidas]

You're all dead wrong.

Nobody* claims to be of "American Ancestry" on census forms. "American" is just the Census Bureau's catch-all processing category for all the written-in regional terms from within the US, whether it's "Baltimore MD", "Ohio", "Appalachian", "Southern White", "old Yankee stock", or whatever. The ancestry field on the longform census questionnaire is a write-in field, with relative little instructions on use given (see question 10 at the bottom of page 4), hence how this happens for people who don't have a clearcut country to jot down. Also note that, no matter how many answers you give, the Bureau only processes the first two.

*well, maybe some people have taken their cue from the Census Bureau by now. But not anywhere near most of the people who show up as such on the result sheet.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Based on my last name, it's either Irish, English, or Welsh.

What is your last name [qm]

[Person Man]

I am going to go with the long-settled jingoist explaination. I guess I would be considered "American" though. I have 2 Italian Grandparents, 1 Huganaut Grandparent and 1 Anglo Grandparent.

[StateBoiler]

Based on my last name, it's either Irish, English, or Welsh.

What is your last name [qm]

Day.

In Ireland, the Days are also spelled Dea and O'Dea, and those are pronounced exactly the same.

[jimrtex]

You're all dead wrong.

Nobody* claims to be of "American Ancestry" on census forms. "American" is just the Census Bureau's catch-all processing category for all the written-in regional terms from within the US, whether it's "Baltimore MD", "Ohio", "Appalachian", "Southern White", "old Yankee stock", or whatever. The ancestry field on the longform census questionnaire is a write-in field, with relative little instructions on use given (see question 10 at the bottom of page 4), hence how this happens for people who don't have a clearcut country to jot down. Also note that, no matter how many answers you give, the Bureau only processes the first two.

*well, maybe some people have taken their cue from the Census Bureau by now. But not anywhere near most of the people who show up as such on the result sheet.

Actually 20 million do claim to be "American" which is a valid response if it is the only response given.

Another 307 thousand claim USA or United States which is collapsed into American.  About 60 thousand claim a specific State (other than Hawaii or Texas) and there are about 6500 Southerners, which are collapsed into "American"

Incidentally, there are 32 thousand who boast of Texas ancestry.  California and New York are next at 8,000 and 4,000 persons who admit such ancestry.

There are 3.4 million of White ancestry, 469 thousand of Anglo ancestry, and 12 thousand of Appalachian ancestry.  These are not collapsed into American.

There are 3 thousand Aryan ancestry (who are collapsed into Other Groups, along with Manx, Cossack, Ossetian, Lapp, Monegasque, Windish, and Inuit, among many others.)

[jimrtex]

The top 100 (includes about 62 million double responses)

Not reported                 53,673,566
German                       42,839,711
Irish                        30,524,799
English                      24,509,692
African American             22,575,618
American                     20,188,305
Italian                      15,635,567
Mexican                      14,443,629
Polish                        8,977,173
French                        8,307,566
Scottish                      4,890,581
Dutch                         4,539,369
Norwegian                     4,477,725
Scotch-Irish                  4,319,232
Swedish                       3,998,303
American Indian               3,611,064
White                         3,349,097
Puerto Rican                  2,652,598
Russian                       2,652,129
Hispanic                      2,451,109
French Canadian               2,349,684
Chinese                       2,269,312
Indian                        2,174,459
Filipino                      2,116,478
Spanish                       2,074,216
European                      1,968,696
Mexicano                      1,839,834
Uncodeable entry              1,789,309
Welsh                         1,753,794
Black                         1,669,124
Mexican American              1,640,692
Asian Indian                  1,451,140
Danish                        1,430,724
Hungarian                     1,397,991
Native American               1,364,337
Korean                        1,190,353
African                       1,183,316
Portuguese                    1,173,691
Greek                         1,153,038
Japanese                      1,103,241
Cuban                         1,097,594
Religious response            1,089,597
British                       1,035,133
Vietnamese                    1,029,150
Swiss                           910,069
Dominican                       908,531
Ukrainian                       892,774
Czech                           832,843
Salvadoran                      802,743
Slovak                          797,764
Jamaican                        736,513
Cherokee                        734,748
Austrian                        730,336
Lithuanian                      659,992
Mixture                         648,620
Canadian                        638,548
Finnish                         623,519
Colombian                       583,986
Haitian                         548,199
Afro American                   502,792
Anglo                           469,772
Guatemalan                      463,502
Czechoslovakian                 441,403
Lebanese                        440,279
Bohemian                        425,768
Scandinavian                    425,099
Armenian                        385,488
Croatian                        374,241
Romanian                        358,905
Belgian                         348,278
Iranian                         338,266
Hawaiian                        331,540
Ecuadorian                      322,965
Mexican State                   320,254
United States                   307,947
Spaniard                        295,067
Taiwanese                       293,568
Peruvian                        292,991
Honduran                        266,848
Pennsylvania German             255,807
Eastern European                253,228
Pakistani                       253,193
Asian                           238,960
Yugoslavian                     230,926
Nicaraguan                      230,358
Cambodian                       197,093
Brazilian                       181,076
Laotian                         179,832
Latino                          175,772
Slovene                         174,833
Northern European               163,657
Guyanese                        162,456
Nigerian                        161,323
Trinidadian                     158,993
West Indian                     147,222
Thai                            145,290
Syrian                          142,897
Egyptian                        142,832
Hmong                           140,528
Serbian                         140,337

[jimrtex]

101 through 200

Western European                125,300
Arabic                          120,665
Panamanian                      119,415
Turkish                         117,575
Slavic                          116,415
Albanian                        113,661
Spanish American                111,781
Israeli                         106,839
Negro                           105,624
Herzogovinian                    97,621
Venezuelan                       94,825
Samoan                           92,142
Latvian                          87,564
Argentinean                      87,550
Sicilian                         85,175
Arab                             85,157
Chilean                          83,206
Australian                       78,544
Costa Rican                      77,832
Cape Verdean                     77,103
Bangladeshi                      74,553
Cajun                            74,437
Mexican American Indian          73,368
Palestinian                      72,096
Ethiopian                        68,001
Chicano                          65,883
Celtic                           65,638
Indonesian                       65,089
East Indian                      63,924
Bulgarian                        55,489
Bolivian                         55,437
Barbadian                        54,509
Afghan                           53,709
Central American                 52,114
British Isles                    50,078
Ghanian                          49,944
Eskimo                           46,706
Luxemburger                      45,139
South African                    44,991
Icelander                        42,716
Assyrian                         42,502
Guamanian                        42,303
Basque                           41,811
Latin                            40,379
Maltese                          40,159
Jordanian                        39,734
Chaldean                         39,247
Cantonese                        39,166
Moroccan                         38,923
Iraqi                            37,714
Belizean                         37,688
Somalian                         36,313
Macedonian                       35,523
Dutch West Indian                35,359
Malaysian                        34,468
Latin American                   33,901
Prussian                         33,164
Texas                            32,765
North American                   32,460
Bahamian                         31,984
Tongan                           31,891
Central American Indian          30,637
Middle Eastern                   28,400
South American                   27,990
Grenadian                        25,924
Belorussian                      25,639
Liberian                         25,575
Estonian                         24,984
Sri Lankan                       24,364
Pacific Islander                 23,028
Afro                             22,834
Creole                           19,020
Eritrean                         18,917
Hong Kong                        18,450
Okinawan                         18,030
Kenyan                           17,336
New Zealander                    16,628
Burmese                          16,411
Uruguayan                        16,230
Chamorro                         15,741
Alsatian                         15,601
Antiguan and Barbudan            15,199
South American Indian            14,966
Sudanese                         14,458
Polynesian                       13,900
Fijian                           13,658
Vincent-Grenadine Islander       13,547
Sierra Leonean                   12,410
Aleut                            12,364
Eurasian                         12,320
Flemish                          12,111
Bengali                          12,063
Appalachian                      11,945
Yemeni                           11,654
Punjabi                          11,566
Acadian                          10,977
St. Lucia Islander               10,364
Rom                              10,036
Nepali                           10,036
Slavonian                         9,817

[jimrtex]

201 through 300

Paraguayan                        9,569
Amerasian                         9,467
Central European                  9,424
Kurdish                           9,423
Micronesian                       9,314
Basque, Spanish                   9,296
U.S. Virgin Islander              9,175
Algerian                          8,752
Cameroonian                       8,099
California                        8,065
Moldavian                         7,859
Mongolian                         7,483
Saudi Arabian                     7,419
Volga German                      7,004
Manx                              6,955
Western African                   6,810
Basque, French                    6,686
Southerner                        6,510
Kitts/Nevis Islander              6,368
Georgia CIS                       6,298
Marshallese                       6,259
Singaporean                       6,186
Mulatto                           6,171
Senegalese                        6,124
Dominica Islander                 6,071
Bermudan                          6,054
Bavarian                          5,728
Azerbaijani                       5,553
Cornish                           5,446
Newfoundlander                    5,376
Tibetan                           5,147
Uzbeg                             4,842
Trinidad and Tobago Islander      4,798
Tirol                             4,792
Castillian                        4,744
Tunisian                          4,735
Carpatho Rusyn                    4,714
Ugandan                           4,707
Zimbabwean                        4,521
Saxon                             4,147
New York                          4,002
Pennsylvania                      3,990
Cypriot, Greek                    3,965
Moravian                          3,916
Congolese                         3,886
Khmer                             3,842
Southern European                 3,756
Northern Irelander                3,693
German Russian                    3,531
Nova Scotian                      3,452
Cypriot                           3,337
Part Hawaiian                     3,318
Aryan                             3,308
Azorean                           3,229
North African                     3,217
St. Croix Islander                3,190
Kuwaiti                           3,162
Frisian                           3,125
Ivorian                           3,110
Florida                           3,101
Canarian                          3,065
Gambian                           3,035
Georgia                           3,026
Guinean                           3,016
Ruthenian                         3,002
Libyan                            2,979
Palauan                           2,957
Tanzanian                         2,921
Windish                           2,870
Surinamese                        2,833
Tamil Nadu                        2,816
Kentucky                          2,798
Singhalese                        2,666
St. Thomas Islander               2,615
Montserrat Islander               2,583
Balearic Islander                 2,554
Montenegran                       2,528
Turkestani                        2,477
British West Indian               2,411
Gujarati                          2,327
Crimean                           2,319
Soviet Union, N.E.C.1             2,265
Tahitian                          2,248
New Mexico                        2,233
Colored                           2,218
Cayman Islander                   2,148
Eastern African                   2,129
Indiana                           2,120
Maori                             1,994
Aruba Islander                    1,970
Virginia                          1,920
Mandarin                          1,871
Sorbian/Wend                      1,858
Corsican                          1,840
Malian                            1,790
Oklahoma                          1,771
North Carolina                    1,759
Tennessee                         1,742
Catalonian                        1,738
Kashmiri                          1,720

[jimrtex]

301 through 398 (groups with 300 or more).

Togolese                          1,716
Angolan                           1,642
Ibo                               1,615
Zairian                           1,602
Montagnard                        1,599
South Carolina                    1,525
Zambian                           1,500
Rwandan                           1,480
Alaska                            1,468
North Caucasian Turkic            1,347
Galician                          1,339
Berber                            1,327
Rusyn                             1,295
Black Thai                        1,287
Yoruba                            1,284
Ohio                              1,266
Mississippi                       1,249
Liechtensteiner                   1,244
Illinois                          1,222
Fulah                             1,143
Cayenne                           1,128
West Virginia                     1,089
Mauritanian                         993
Saipanese                           989
Tobagonian                          987
Guadeloupe Islander                 974
Soviet Central Asia                 965
Mauritian                           963
Lapp                                945
French West Indian                  941
Goanese                             917
Tajik                               905
Tejano                              895
Alabama                             882
Missouri                            867
Louisiana                           852
Anguilla Islander                   832
Michigan                            811
British Virgin Islander             785
Kansas                              774
Hessian                             762
Magyar                              733
Suisse                              732
Chuukese                            714
Arkansas                            705
Arizona                             681
Carpathian                          674
Ponapean                            673
Botswanan                           662
Switzer                             651
New Jersey                          639
Malawian                            631
Nigerien (Niger)                    629
Indo Chinese                        622
Syriac                              606
Beninese                            605
North Caucasian                     596
African Islander exc. Madagascar    588
Turks and Caicos Islander           587
Mozambican                          583
Pacific, N.E.C1                     567
Pathan                              567
West German                         554
Oregon                              544
Inuit                               540
San Marino                          538
Minnesota                           518
Massachusetts                       512
Zulu                                509
Afrikaner                           504
Yapese                              491
Monegasque                          486
Iowa                                473
Nebraska                            465
Rome                                464
Burundian                           462
Emirati                             459
Vermont                             457
Pomeranian                          456
Madagascan                          437
Macao                               434
Dobrujan                            430
Maryland                            428
East German                         420
Wisconsin                           403
Manchurian                          379
Cypriot, Turkish                    361
St. Maarten Islander                352
Greenlander                         352
Omani                               351
Colorado                            348
Montana                             344
Silesian                            339
Breton                              338
Tokelauan                           336
Cossak                              325
Namibian                            312
Javanese                            310

[StateBoiler]

Another 307 thousand claim USA or United States which is collapsed into American.  About 60 thousand claim a specific State (other than Hawaii or Texas) and there are about 6500 Southerners, which are collapsed into "American"

Incidentally, there are 32 thousand who boast of Texas ancestry.  California and New York are next at 8,000 and 4,000 persons who admit such ancestry.

Southerner! In 2010, I'm putting in Southerner.

[jimrtex]

Other groups, with less than 300 reported.

Abruzzi
Aden
Aland Islander
Amalfian
Andalusian
Andamanese
Andhrapradesh
Andorran
Apulian
Assamese
Asturian
Australian Aborigine
Bahraini
Baluchistan
Bashkir
Basilicata
Bedouin
Berliner
Bhutanese
Bioko
Borneo
Bucovina
Calabria
Californio
Canal Zone
Carolinian
Central African
Central African Republic
Ceuta
Chadian
Channel Islander
Chuvash
Congo Brazzaville
Connecticut
Cook Islander
Cretan
Criollo
Cycladic Islander
Darfur
Delaware
Dinka
District of Columbia
Djibouti
East Indies
Equatorial Guinean
Faroe Islander
Finno Ugrian
Formosan
Friulian
Gabonese
Gagauz
Gallego
Gaza Strip
Gibraltan
Gruziia
Guinea Bissau
Hamburger
Hannover
Hausa
Idaho
Issei
Kalmyk
Kapingamarangan
Karelian
Karnatakan
Kashubian
Keralan
Kiribatese
Kosraean
La Raza
Ladin
Lemko
Lesotho
Liburian
Livonian
Lombardian
Lorrainian
Lubecker
Ma
Madeiran
Madrasi
Maharashtran
Maine
Maldivian
Marche
Melanesian Islander
Meo
Molise
Mordovian
Muscovite
Mysore
Nagaland
Nauraun
Neopolitan
Nevada
New Caledonian Islander
New Guinean
New Hampshire
Nisei
Niuean
Nonwhite
North Borneo
North Dakota
Nuer
Nuevo Mexicano
Occitan
Ossetian
Papuan
Piedmontese
Puglia
Qatar
Rajasthani
Rhode Island
Rio de Oro
Romansch
Ryukyu Islander
Sardinian
Shan
Sikkim
Solomon Islander
South Dakota
South Yemen
St. John Islander
Sudentenlander
Suisse Romane
Sumatran
Swaziland
Tanganyikan
Tasmanian
Tinian Islander
Toscana
Trentino
Trieste
Tuvinian
Umbrian
Union of South Africa
Upper Voltan
Utah
Valencian
Valle Daosta
Vanuatuan
Veddah
Venetian
Voltan
Wallachian
Walloon
Washington
Westphalian
Wyoming
Yakut
Zanzibar Islander

[Јas]

Based on my last name, it's either Irish, English, or Welsh.

What is your last name [qm]

Day.

In Ireland, the Days are also spelled Dea and O'Dea, and those are pronounced exactly the same.

Actually, unless Day isn't pronounced phonetically, then the pronunciations aren't the same.
Dea and O'Dea would normally be pronounced 'dee' as in deep (at least in Ireland).