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| | |-+  Is profanity sinful/morally wrong?
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Question: Is profanity sinful/morally wrong?
Yes   -3 (12%)
No   -22 (88%)
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Total Voters: 25

Author Topic: Is profanity sinful/morally wrong?  (Read 9080 times)
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ComradeCarter
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« Reply #25 on: June 21, 2008, 12:31:45 pm »
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I don't put that much power in individual words.

This was always the correct stance to me. The intent and meaning behind the use of arbitrarily deemed "profane" words in its context is what I always regarded as potentially sinful. I've held this position steadfastly for a long time and convinced many devout believers (including my own family) that this was scripture's intention.

In the same breath, our culture has deemed these words offensive for whatever reason (or lack thereof, more often than that). With that in mind, it's probably best to abstain in order not to cause a fellow believer to stumble or confuse the mind of a non-believer into thinking you are being a hypocrite if they don't understand the nuances. See Romans 14, which, while not specifically addressing the use of culturally offensive words (such an idea did not exist when scripture was written), contains tenets that I think aptly apply.

What we arrive at is, not surprisingly, that their usage as sinfully or morally wrong (from a Christian perspective) is a grey area. In mixed company, however, it is better to abstain for their sake.
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« Reply #26 on: June 21, 2008, 12:46:14 pm »
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Nope, my Mom thinks it is but she doesn't count.
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The Mikado
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« Reply #27 on: June 21, 2008, 01:14:38 pm »
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Are we talking about profanity or obscenity?
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« Reply #28 on: June 21, 2008, 07:23:31 pm »
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I don't put that much power in individual words.

This was always the correct stance to me. The intent and meaning behind the use of arbitrarily deemed "profane" words in its context is what I always regarded as potentially sinful. I've held this position steadfastly for a long time and convinced many devout believers (including my own family) that this was scripture's intention.

In the same breath, our culture has deemed these words offensive for whatever reason (or lack thereof, more often than that). With that in mind, it's probably best to abstain in order not to cause a fellow believer to stumble or confuse the mind of a non-believer into thinking you are being a hypocrite if they don't understand the nuances. See Romans 14, which, while not specifically addressing the use of culturally offensive words (such an idea did not exist when scripture was written), contains tenets that I think aptly apply.

What we arrive at is, not surprisingly, that their usage as sinfully or morally wrong (from a Christian perspective) is a grey area. In mixed company, however, it is better to abstain for their sake.
Yep, that's what I would have said if I wasn't lazy Smiley
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“To oppose something is to maintain it.
They say here "all roads lead to Mishnory." To be sure, if you turn your back on Mishnory and walk away from it, you are still on the Mishnory road. To oppose vulgarity is inevitably to be vulgar. You must go somewhere else; you must have another goal; then you walk in a different road.”
― Ursula K. Le Guin, The Left Hand of Darkness
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« Reply #29 on: June 22, 2008, 01:01:47 am »
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that blurb doesn't really contradict what BRTD said

I didn't notice the part where he claimed to be an agnostic but at the same time, he professes a faith in "a God."

Whatever the case, BRTD is a total moron for using the example of behavior of a Christian as justification for such behavior.

Not the first time. Don't you remember my "It's OK to go to strip clubs, because I've seen strippers wearing crosses." post?
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« Reply #30 on: June 22, 2008, 08:12:16 am »
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that blurb doesn't really contradict what BRTD said

I didn't notice the part where he claimed to be an agnostic but at the same time, he professes a faith in "a God."

Whatever the case, BRTD is a total moron for using the example of behavior of a Christian as justification for such behavior.

Not the first time. Don't you remember my "It's OK to go to strip clubs, because I've seen strippers wearing crosses." post?

Yeah, and we also remember calling you a moron that time as well.
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« Reply #31 on: June 22, 2008, 11:23:08 am »
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that blurb doesn't really contradict what BRTD said

I didn't notice the part where he claimed to be an agnostic but at the same time, he professes a faith in "a God."

Whatever the case, BRTD is a total moron for using the example of behavior of a Christian as justification for such behavior.

Not the first time. Don't you remember my "It's OK to go to strip clubs, because I've seen strippers wearing crosses." post?

So you're proving that you're simply a joke poster? Ok, fair enough.
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« Reply #32 on: June 23, 2008, 09:28:03 pm »
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I won't address the issue of sin, since I am not religious, but I'd say profanity is morally wrong when used as harassment, but not otherwise. Also, non-profane speech used as harassment would also not be justified.
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« Reply #33 on: June 24, 2008, 10:52:18 am »
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In the same breath, our culture has deemed these words offensive for whatever reason (or lack thereof, more often than that). With that in mind, it's probably best to abstain in order not to cause a fellow believer to stumble or confuse the mind of a non-believer into thinking you are being a hypocrite if they don't understand the nuances. See Romans 14, which, while not specifically addressing the use of culturally offensive words (such an idea did not exist when scripture was written), contains tenets that I think aptly apply.

I agree Romans 14 commands us not to offend others over non-salvational issues.  The commands of Romans 14 are situational and apply only to situations where you are in the company of those who may take offense.

---

What we arrive at is, not surprisingly, that their usage as sinfully or morally wrong (from a Christian perspective) is a grey area. In mixed company, however, it is better to abstain for their sake.

fine, but that doesn't mean profanity is acceptable when NOT in mixed company.  Example:  it wouldn't be morally acceptable for a group equally yoked believers to curse up a storm while golfing.

The following passage is NOT situational:

Eph 5:3-4 But among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed, because these are improper for God's holy people. 4Nor should there be obscenity, foolish talk or coarse joking, which are out of place, but rather thanksgiving.
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benconstine
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« Reply #34 on: June 24, 2008, 11:11:21 am »
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I have to wonder what the Biblical definition of obscenity was.  I doubt saying "F**k you!" counts as an obscenity in the eyes of G-d.
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« Reply #35 on: June 24, 2008, 11:25:44 am »
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I have to wonder what the Biblical definition of obscenity was.  I doubt saying "F**k you!" counts as an obscenity in the eyes of G-d.

Matthew 5:37
Simply let your 'Yes' be 'Yes,' and your 'No,' 'No'; anything beyond this comes from the evil one.

James 5:12  Above all, my brothers, do not swear—not by heaven or by earth or by anything else. Let your "Yes" be yes, and your "No," no, or you will be condemned.
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Do not fight with one another over my banning.  I've enjoyed the time I have spent with all of you, but the time really has come for me to leave.  It is what I want.

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A band of angels coming after me,
Coming for to carry me home.

Swing low, sweet chariot,
Coming for to carry me home.
opebo
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« Reply #36 on: June 24, 2008, 11:42:11 am »
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Kevin Smith is a Christian. Take a look at his movies.

oh, I see, the actions of my fellow Christians are my standard, not scripture?!

look, I defend what is written in scripture; not the arguments of men

No, 'scripture' is an argument of men.
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ComradeCarter
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« Reply #37 on: June 26, 2008, 01:04:25 am »
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In the same breath, our culture has deemed these words offensive for whatever reason (or lack thereof, more often than that). With that in mind, it's probably best to abstain in order not to cause a fellow believer to stumble or confuse the mind of a non-believer into thinking you are being a hypocrite if they don't understand the nuances. See Romans 14, which, while not specifically addressing the use of culturally offensive words (such an idea did not exist when scripture was written), contains tenets that I think aptly apply.

I agree Romans 14 commands us not to offend others over non-salvational issues.  The commands of Romans 14 are situational and apply only to situations where you are in the company of those who may take offense.

I... I think I need a glass of water.

Quote
What we arrive at is, not surprisingly, that their usage as sinfully or morally wrong (from a Christian perspective) is a grey area. In mixed company, however, it is better to abstain for their sake.

fine, but that doesn't mean profanity is acceptable when NOT in mixed company.  Example:  it wouldn't be morally acceptable for a group equally yoked believers to curse up a storm while golfing.

The following passage is NOT situational:

Eph 5:3-4 But among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed, because these are improper for God's holy people. 4Nor should there be obscenity, foolish talk or coarse joking, which are out of place, but rather thanksgiving.

That's a fun one. The addition of "obscenity" is a curious translation that the NIV carries. Here are some alternative translations of that list in Ephesians 5:4..

Quote from: KJV
Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.
Quote from: NAS
and there must be no filthiness and silly talk, or coarse jesting, which are not fitting, but rather giving of thanks.
Quote from: The Message
Though some tongues just love the taste of gossip, those who follow Jesus have better uses for language than that. Don't talk dirty or silly. That kind of talk doesn't fit our style. Thanksgiving is our dialect.
Quote from: Amplified
Let there be no filthiness (obscenity, indecency) nor foolish and sinful (silly and corrupt) talk, nor coarse jesting, which are not fitting or becoming; but instead voice your thankfulness [to God]
Quote from: New Living
Obscene stories, foolish talk, and coarse jokes—these are not for you. Instead, let there be thankfulness to God.
Quote from: Contemporary English Translation
Don't use dirty or foolish or filthy words. Instead, say how thankful you are.

I think this passage has a larger meaning than to avoid certain words. These particular words have an extremely wide variety of uses in our language - sometimes they are used crudely and indecently while sometimes they are used simply to express surprise, amazement, or just to stress the intensity of something. They have legitimate uses. What I have always believed that this verse is getting at is to avoid larger sins of the tongue - gossip, especially. Communication is much broader than simple, individual words. What are you actually saying? What are you trying to actually express? What is the meaning of the statement? The words that compose the statement are powerless if you take away their status - but the statement itself can be devastating or uplifting, with whatever it is composed. That is the beauty of language. Now, then, "swear" words are never really necessary for communication. You don't have to use them. But by getting offended because of their presence alone, besides the intent and meaning behind a statement - that is missing the entire point. It is reinforcing a petty cultural rule.

And, I might add, when the Bible talks about "swearing" it is talking about taking oaths. When it talks about "cursing" it is referring to damning. Every time you misinterpret Scripture to reinforce your own selfish biases, baby Jesus cries.
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