Opinion of Pope John Paul II

[12th Doctor]

Despite his open support for zionism, FF

Well, a number of Jews quickly forgot all the help that Pius XII had provided them simply because he didn't support the creation of Israel.  With the advantage of hindsight, I think he was right, but its there now, so....

[12th Doctor]

Despite his open support for zionism, FF

Well, a number of Jews quickly forgot all the help that Pius XII had provided them simply because he didn't support the creation of Israel.  With the advantage of hindsight, I think he was right, but its there now, so....

I'm more bothered by Pius XII's reluctance to speak out against Hitler, like his predecessor did.

In places where the priests did speak out publicly against Hitler, the SS came and rounded up everyone in the Church, which often included Jews being hidden there.  With some 6,000 Jews being hidden in the immediate vicinity of the Vatican, many in the Vatican itself, what exactly would have been gained if Pius had spoken out?  What if he had and the Nazis had used it as a pretext to investigate every Catholic Church and monastery under their control in Europe?  Do you have any idea how many hundreds of thousands of Jews would have been discovered and rounded up?  Hitler formed two plans to make Pius "disappear" and replace him with a puppet fascist, which, admittedly, finding one wouldn't have been hard, since there were plenty of ardent fascists amongst the bishops of Spain, Germany and Italy.

People like Churchill had the luxury of being able to speak out.  They were running a very public war.  Pius wasn't.  His speaking out might have earned him a little bit of praise from historians, but at what cost at the time?

[12th Doctor]

And it is not even as though he didn't speak out at all.  He did, he just didn't directly condemn the Nazis, because he didn't want to grant them a pretext for acting.

[12th Doctor]

Despite his open support for zionism, FF

Well, a number of Jews quickly forgot all the help that Pius XII had provided them simply because he didn't support the creation of Israel.  With the advantage of hindsight, I think he was right, but its there now, so....

I'm more bothered by Pius XII's reluctance to speak out against Hitler, like his predecessor did.

In places where the priests did speak out publicly against Hitler, the SS came and rounded up everyone in the Church, which often included Jews being hidden there.  With some 6,000 Jews being hidden in the immediate vicinity of the Vatican, many in the Vatican itself, what exactly would have been gained if Pius had spoken out?  What if he had and the Nazis had used it as a pretext to investigate every Catholic Church and monastery under their control in Europe?  Do you have any idea how many hundreds of thousands of Jews would have been discovered and rounded up?  Hitler formed two plans to make Pius "disappear" and replace him with a puppet fascist, which, admittedly, finding one wouldn't have been hard, since there were plenty of ardent fascists amongst the bishops of Spain, Germany and Italy.

People like Churchill had the luxury of being able to speak out.  They were running a very public war.  Pius wasn't.  His speaking out might have earned him a little bit of praise from historians, but at what cost at the time?

Very well put. Couldn't have said it better myself.

What I find particularly disturbing about all these allegations about Pius during WWII is that they are all based on his "silence", and totally ignore the some 200,000 Jewish lives that he helped save by ordering that Jews be helped and hidden.  Just goes to show how much people value words over actions.

[12th Doctor]

FF. I especially agree with his actions within the Church - giving apology where due, but not being afraid to be orthodox against heretics of the right and left.

Hmmmm... looks like you and I are going to get along.