Jesse Helms Dead at 86
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Alexander Hamilton
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« Reply #200 on: August 27, 2009, 11:39:25 AM »

Jesse Helms did some horrible things. Ted Kennedy did some horrible things. Jesse Helms was committed to what he believed in. Ted Kennedy was committed to what he believed in. Jesse Helms worked his ass off for his constituents' views to have a voice. Ted Kennedy worked his ass off for his constituents' views to have a voice. Jesse Helms has numerous accomplishments to be proud of. Ted Kennedy has numerous accomplishments to be proud of. We all need to be fair to these men if we are going to continue to have valid arguments. Hypocrisy is not respected.

I am sorry but you just cannot compare Jesse Helms to Ted Kennedy. Jesse Helms was a racist and a bigot who is surely getting deep fried in hell as we speak if it exists at all. Kennedy on the other hand, in his illustrious senate career, has helped those who were downtrodden in society like women, minorities and the disabled. You might not have agreed with all his policies and that is quite understandable, but that does not make him morally equivalent to a bigot. And I would say the same thing about most republican senators who I disagree with, but cretins like Jesse Helms and Jeff Sessions are on a different plane.

Ted Kennedy was in no way shape a form a moral, upstanding citizen. In fact, he is involved in numerous crimes, some more deadly than others.

Like murder? I require proof if you are going to make bold statements like that. I don't know what other crimes he committed so maybe you can expand on that too. I know Kennedy wasn't perfect, but he was much better than racist trash like Jesse Helms.

He was involved. That is fact, there is proof.
"On July 18, 1969, at approximately 11:15 p.m. in Chappaquiddick, Martha's Vineyard, Massachusetts, I was driving my car on Main Street on my way to get the ferry back to Edgartown. I was unfamiliar with the road and turned right onto Dike Road, instead of bearing hard left on Main Street. After proceeding for approximately one-half mile on Dike Road I descended a hill and came upon a narrow bridge. The car went off the side of the bridge. There was one passenger with me, one Miss Mary [Kopechne],[17] a former secretary of my brother Sen. Robert Kennedy. The car turned over and sank into the water and landed with the roof resting on the bottom. I attempted to open the door and the window of the car but have no recollection of how I got out of the car. I came to the surface and then repeatedly dove down to the car in an attempt to see if the passenger was still in the car. I was unsuccessful in the attempt. I was exhausted and in a state of shock. I recall walking back to where my friends were eating. There was a car parked in front of the cottage and I climbed into the backseat. I then asked for someone to bring me back to Edgartown. I remember walking around for a period and then going back to my hotel room. When I fully realized what had happened this morning, I immediately contacted the police."- Ted Kennedy

So there is his own admission of involvement, speculation says there is more but that is not firmly proven.
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Brittain33
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« Reply #201 on: August 27, 2009, 11:40:34 AM »

So there is his own admission of involvement, speculation says there is more but that is not firmly proven.

Do you not understand that "murder" has a clear definition and that is the problem?
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Mechaman
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« Reply #202 on: August 27, 2009, 11:42:05 AM »

Jesse Helms did some horrible things. Ted Kennedy did some horrible things. Jesse Helms was committed to what he believed in. Ted Kennedy was committed to what he believed in. Jesse Helms worked his ass off for his constituents' views to have a voice. Ted Kennedy worked his ass off for his constituents' views to have a voice. Jesse Helms has numerous accomplishments to be proud of. Ted Kennedy has numerous accomplishments to be proud of. We all need to be fair to these men if we are going to continue to have valid arguments. Hypocrisy is not respected.

I am sorry but you just cannot compare Jesse Helms to Ted Kennedy. Jesse Helms was a racist and a bigot who is surely getting deep fried in hell as we speak if it exists at all. Kennedy on the other hand, in his illustrious senate career, has helped those who were downtrodden in society like women, minorities and the disabled. You might not have agreed with all his policies and that is quite understandable, but that does not make him morally equivalent to a bigot. And I would say the same thing about most republican senators who I disagree with, but cretins like Jesse Helms and Jeff Sessions are on a different plane.

Ted Kennedy was in no way shape a form a moral, upstanding citizen. In fact, he is involved in numerous crimes, some more deadly than others.

Like murder? I require proof if you are going to make bold statements like that. I don't know what other crimes he committed so maybe you can expand on that too. I know Kennedy wasn't perfect, but he was much better than racist trash like Jesse Helms.

He was involved. That is fact, there is proof.
"On July 18, 1969, at approximately 11:15 p.m. in Chappaquiddick, Martha's Vineyard, Massachusetts, I was driving my car on Main Street on my way to get the ferry back to Edgartown. I was unfamiliar with the road and turned right onto Dike Road, instead of bearing hard left on Main Street. After proceeding for approximately one-half mile on Dike Road I descended a hill and came upon a narrow bridge. The car went off the side of the bridge. There was one passenger with me, one Miss Mary [Kopechne],[17] a former secretary of my brother Sen. Robert Kennedy. The car turned over and sank into the water and landed with the roof resting on the bottom. I attempted to open the door and the window of the car but have no recollection of how I got out of the car. I came to the surface and then repeatedly dove down to the car in an attempt to see if the passenger was still in the car. I was unsuccessful in the attempt. I was exhausted and in a state of shock. I recall walking back to where my friends were eating. There was a car parked in front of the cottage and I climbed into the backseat. I then asked for someone to bring me back to Edgartown. I remember walking around for a period and then going back to my hotel room. When I fully realized what had happened this morning, I immediately contacted the police."- Ted Kennedy

So there is his own admission of involvement, speculation says there is more but that is not firmly proven.
Like I told someone earlier, if anyone is going to claim murder they need irrevokable truth that Ted did in fact murder someone. From what I've read so far it would be reasonable to conclude that he might've been having an affair with Mary Jo (he told his chaffeur to stay at the party, she left her hotel key), however it would be to rash to conclude that he plotted out to murder her. My personal opinion? Ted Kennedy and Mary Jo were having an affair and Teddy wanted to take her to somewhere more private. He made a wrong turn and ended up plunging into the water. INSTINCTUALLY TED GOT OUT OF THE CAR AND WENT FOR SHORE, CAN ANYONE TELL ME POINT BLANK IF THEY WERE UNDERWATER IN A CAR THEIR FIRST THOUGHT WOULD BE "I MUST LET SO AND SO GO FIRST?" Unless it was someone who was of blood relation or very close to me, I probably would've responded (on instinct) just like Ted did. In events of life or death many people will choose instinct over any rational thought. According to Ted himself he called out to Mary Jo to see if she had got out and even tried to swim towards her to save her before he got tired and passed out on the shore. He walked all the way back to the party instead of the to the houses nearby because he would have a lot less explaining to do to his friends as to why Edward Kennedy had a young female staffer in the car with him. If there is a moral fault here it's that Ted might've been cheating on his wife, not that he plotted in the death of a young woman. After all, the Kennedys were known just as much for their philanderous ways as they were about their natural unluckiness.

That's at least my two cents.
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Alexander Hamilton
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« Reply #203 on: August 27, 2009, 11:50:53 AM »

Jesse Helms did some horrible things. Ted Kennedy did some horrible things. Jesse Helms was committed to what he believed in. Ted Kennedy was committed to what he believed in. Jesse Helms worked his ass off for his constituents' views to have a voice. Ted Kennedy worked his ass off for his constituents' views to have a voice. Jesse Helms has numerous accomplishments to be proud of. Ted Kennedy has numerous accomplishments to be proud of. We all need to be fair to these men if we are going to continue to have valid arguments. Hypocrisy is not respected.

I am sorry but you just cannot compare Jesse Helms to Ted Kennedy. Jesse Helms was a racist and a bigot who is surely getting deep fried in hell as we speak if it exists at all. Kennedy on the other hand, in his illustrious senate career, has helped those who were downtrodden in society like women, minorities and the disabled. You might not have agreed with all his policies and that is quite understandable, but that does not make him morally equivalent to a bigot. And I would say the same thing about most republican senators who I disagree with, but cretins like Jesse Helms and Jeff Sessions are on a different plane.

Ted Kennedy was in no way shape a form a moral, upstanding citizen. In fact, he is involved in numerous crimes, some more deadly than others.

Like murder? I require proof if you are going to make bold statements like that. I don't know what other crimes he committed so maybe you can expand on that too. I know Kennedy wasn't perfect, but he was much better than racist trash like Jesse Helms.

He was involved. That is fact, there is proof.
"On July 18, 1969, at approximately 11:15 p.m. in Chappaquiddick, Martha's Vineyard, Massachusetts, I was driving my car on Main Street on my way to get the ferry back to Edgartown. I was unfamiliar with the road and turned right onto Dike Road, instead of bearing hard left on Main Street. After proceeding for approximately one-half mile on Dike Road I descended a hill and came upon a narrow bridge. The car went off the side of the bridge. There was one passenger with me, one Miss Mary [Kopechne],[17] a former secretary of my brother Sen. Robert Kennedy. The car turned over and sank into the water and landed with the roof resting on the bottom. I attempted to open the door and the window of the car but have no recollection of how I got out of the car. I came to the surface and then repeatedly dove down to the car in an attempt to see if the passenger was still in the car. I was unsuccessful in the attempt. I was exhausted and in a state of shock. I recall walking back to where my friends were eating. There was a car parked in front of the cottage and I climbed into the backseat. I then asked for someone to bring me back to Edgartown. I remember walking around for a period and then going back to my hotel room. When I fully realized what had happened this morning, I immediately contacted the police."- Ted Kennedy

So there is his own admission of involvement, speculation says there is more but that is not firmly proven.
Like I told someone earlier, if anyone is going to claim murder they need irrevokable truth that Ted did in fact murder someone. From what I've read so far it would be reasonable to conclude that he might've been having an affair with Mary Jo (he told his chaffeur to stay at the party, she left her hotel key), however it would be to rash to conclude that he plotted out to murder her. My personal opinion? Ted Kennedy and Mary Jo were having an affair and Teddy wanted to take her to somewhere more private. He made a wrong turn and ended up plunging into the water. INSTINCTUALLY TED GOT OUT OF THE CAR AND WENT FOR SHORE, CAN ANYONE TELL ME POINT BLANK IF THEY WERE UNDERWATER IN A CAR THEIR FIRST THOUGHT WOULD BE "I MUST LET SO AND SO GO FIRST?" Unless it was someone who was of blood relation or very close to me, I probably would've responded (on instinct) just like Ted did. In events of life or death many people will choose instinct over any rational thought. According to Ted himself he called out to Mary Jo to see if she had got out and even tried to swim towards her to save her before he got tired and passed out on the shore. He walked all the way back to the party instead of the to the houses nearby because he would have a lot less explaining to do to his friends as to why Edward Kennedy had a young female staffer in the car with him. If there is a moral fault here it's that Ted might've been cheating on his wife, not that he plotted in the death of a young woman. After all, the Kennedys were known just as much for their philanderous ways as they were about their natural unluckiness.

That's at least my two cents.

Did you even read wrote I wrote? Or do you just like to rant against claims not made?
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Sewer
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« Reply #204 on: August 27, 2009, 12:13:34 PM »

Jesse Helms did some horrible things. Ted Kennedy did some horrible things. Jesse Helms was committed to what he believed in. Ted Kennedy was committed to what he believed in. Jesse Helms worked his ass off for his constituents' views to have a voice. Ted Kennedy worked his ass off for his constituents' views to have a voice. Jesse Helms has numerous accomplishments to be proud of. Ted Kennedy has numerous accomplishments to be proud of. We all need to be fair to these men if we are going to continue to have valid arguments. Hypocrisy is not respected.

I am sorry but you just cannot compare Jesse Helms to Ted Kennedy. Jesse Helms was a racist and a bigot who is surely getting deep fried in hell as we speak if it exists at all. Kennedy on the other hand, in his illustrious senate career, has helped those who were downtrodden in society like women, minorities and the disabled. You might not have agreed with all his policies and that is quite understandable, but that does not make him morally equivalent to a bigot. And I would say the same thing about most republican senators who I disagree with, but cretins like Jesse Helms and Jeff Sessions are on a different plane.

Ted Kennedy was in no way shape a form a moral, upstanding citizen. In fact, he is involved in numerous crimes, some more deadly than others.

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Sbane
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« Reply #205 on: August 27, 2009, 12:38:40 PM »

Jesse Helms did some horrible things. Ted Kennedy did some horrible things. Jesse Helms was committed to what he believed in. Ted Kennedy was committed to what he believed in. Jesse Helms worked his ass off for his constituents' views to have a voice. Ted Kennedy worked his ass off for his constituents' views to have a voice. Jesse Helms has numerous accomplishments to be proud of. Ted Kennedy has numerous accomplishments to be proud of. We all need to be fair to these men if we are going to continue to have valid arguments. Hypocrisy is not respected.

I am sorry but you just cannot compare Jesse Helms to Ted Kennedy. Jesse Helms was a racist and a bigot who is surely getting deep fried in hell as we speak if it exists at all. Kennedy on the other hand, in his illustrious senate career, has helped those who were downtrodden in society like women, minorities and the disabled. You might not have agreed with all his policies and that is quite understandable, but that does not make him morally equivalent to a bigot. And I would say the same thing about most republican senators who I disagree with, but cretins like Jesse Helms and Jeff Sessions are on a different plane.

Ted Kennedy was in no way shape a form a moral, upstanding citizen. In fact, he is involved in numerous crimes, some more deadly than others.

Like murder? I require proof if you are going to make bold statements like that. I don't know what other crimes he committed so maybe you can expand on that too. I know Kennedy wasn't perfect, but he was much better than racist trash like Jesse Helms.

He was involved. That is fact, there is proof.
"On July 18, 1969, at approximately 11:15 p.m. in Chappaquiddick, Martha's Vineyard, Massachusetts, I was driving my car on Main Street on my way to get the ferry back to Edgartown. I was unfamiliar with the road and turned right onto Dike Road, instead of bearing hard left on Main Street. After proceeding for approximately one-half mile on Dike Road I descended a hill and came upon a narrow bridge. The car went off the side of the bridge. There was one passenger with me, one Miss Mary [Kopechne],[17] a former secretary of my brother Sen. Robert Kennedy. The car turned over and sank into the water and landed with the roof resting on the bottom. I attempted to open the door and the window of the car but have no recollection of how I got out of the car. I came to the surface and then repeatedly dove down to the car in an attempt to see if the passenger was still in the car. I was unsuccessful in the attempt. I was exhausted and in a state of shock. I recall walking back to where my friends were eating. There was a car parked in front of the cottage and I climbed into the backseat. I then asked for someone to bring me back to Edgartown. I remember walking around for a period and then going back to my hotel room. When I fully realized what had happened this morning, I immediately contacted the police."- Ted Kennedy

So there is his own admission of involvement, speculation says there is more but that is not firmly proven.

LOL what does this prove? That he may have been drinking and driving? Hell it doesn't even prove that. And some people out there think Kennedy murdered her first, which is getting into truther/birther land.
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Mechaman
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« Reply #206 on: August 27, 2009, 12:54:32 PM »
« Edited: August 27, 2009, 12:57:51 PM by Mechman »

Jesse Helms did some horrible things. Ted Kennedy did some horrible things. Jesse Helms was committed to what he believed in. Ted Kennedy was committed to what he believed in. Jesse Helms worked his ass off for his constituents' views to have a voice. Ted Kennedy worked his ass off for his constituents' views to have a voice. Jesse Helms has numerous accomplishments to be proud of. Ted Kennedy has numerous accomplishments to be proud of. We all need to be fair to these men if we are going to continue to have valid arguments. Hypocrisy is not respected.

I am sorry but you just cannot compare Jesse Helms to Ted Kennedy. Jesse Helms was a racist and a bigot who is surely getting deep fried in hell as we speak if it exists at all. Kennedy on the other hand, in his illustrious senate career, has helped those who were downtrodden in society like women, minorities and the disabled. You might not have agreed with all his policies and that is quite understandable, but that does not make him morally equivalent to a bigot. And I would say the same thing about most republican senators who I disagree with, but cretins like Jesse Helms and Jeff Sessions are on a different plane.

Ted Kennedy was in no way shape a form a moral, upstanding citizen. In fact, he is involved in numerous crimes, some more deadly than others.

Like murder? I require proof if you are going to make bold statements like that. I don't know what other crimes he committed so maybe you can expand on that too. I know Kennedy wasn't perfect, but he was much better than racist trash like Jesse Helms.

He was involved. That is fact, there is proof.
"On July 18, 1969, at approximately 11:15 p.m. in Chappaquiddick, Martha's Vineyard, Massachusetts, I was driving my car on Main Street on my way to get the ferry back to Edgartown. I was unfamiliar with the road and turned right onto Dike Road, instead of bearing hard left on Main Street. After proceeding for approximately one-half mile on Dike Road I descended a hill and came upon a narrow bridge. The car went off the side of the bridge. There was one passenger with me, one Miss Mary [Kopechne],[17] a former secretary of my brother Sen. Robert Kennedy. The car turned over and sank into the water and landed with the roof resting on the bottom. I attempted to open the door and the window of the car but have no recollection of how I got out of the car. I came to the surface and then repeatedly dove down to the car in an attempt to see if the passenger was still in the car. I was unsuccessful in the attempt. I was exhausted and in a state of shock. I recall walking back to where my friends were eating. There was a car parked in front of the cottage and I climbed into the backseat. I then asked for someone to bring me back to Edgartown. I remember walking around for a period and then going back to my hotel room. When I fully realized what had happened this morning, I immediately contacted the police."- Ted Kennedy

So there is his own admission of involvement, speculation says there is more but that is not firmly proven.
Like I told someone earlier, if anyone is going to claim murder they need irrevokable truth that Ted did in fact murder someone. From what I've read so far it would be reasonable to conclude that he might've been having an affair with Mary Jo (he told his chaffeur to stay at the party, she left her hotel key), however it would be to rash to conclude that he plotted out to murder her. My personal opinion? Ted Kennedy and Mary Jo were having an affair and Teddy wanted to take her to somewhere more private. He made a wrong turn and ended up plunging into the water. INSTINCTUALLY TED GOT OUT OF THE CAR AND WENT FOR SHORE, CAN ANYONE TELL ME POINT BLANK IF THEY WERE UNDERWATER IN A CAR THEIR FIRST THOUGHT WOULD BE "I MUST LET SO AND SO GO FIRST?" Unless it was someone who was of blood relation or very close to me, I probably would've responded (on instinct) just like Ted did. In events of life or death many people will choose instinct over any rational thought. According to Ted himself he called out to Mary Jo to see if she had got out and even tried to swim towards her to save her before he got tired and passed out on the shore. He walked all the way back to the party instead of the to the houses nearby because he would have a lot less explaining to do to his friends as to why Edward Kennedy had a young female staffer in the car with him. If there is a moral fault here it's that Ted might've been cheating on his wife, not that he plotted in the death of a young woman. After all, the Kennedys were known just as much for their philanderous ways as they were about their natural unluckiness.

That's at least my two cents.

Did you even read wrote I wrote? Or do you just like to rant against claims not made?

You are implying in this post that Ted is hiding something. I'm simply giving you an explanation as to what it is. Ted Kennedy did not have the heart to be involved in the murder of somebody.

And as for claiming I'm ranting against claims not made:

Regardless, someone directly involved in a murder is generally no better than a bigot.

You are claiming right here that Ted was complicit in the act of murder are you not? Granted I didn't insert this quote in my original counter to your post but it still proves that if there is a claim that you are arguing, it is this.

The act of murder as someone on this forum puts it:
So there is his own admission of involvement, speculation says there is more but that is not firmly proven.

Furthermore:
Do you not understand that "murder" has a clear definition and that is the problem?
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Mechaman
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« Reply #207 on: August 27, 2009, 01:16:11 PM »

Okay Hamilton, here's my biggest gripe about the whole idea of Ted Kennedy murdering Mary Jo:

I don't see why he would resort to driving off a bridge into a body of water just to shut her up while risking grave bodily harm. I mean really why not just pay the mafia to off her or get someone to poison her drink?

Please explain that part to me and maybe I'll be a little more receptive.

If you consider a driving accident where the passenger dies due to the incompetence of the driver as murder, then fine, whatever. Because right now I can't decide if you are agreeing with the super duper anti-Ted crowd that he deliberately carried out this act, or that by his incompetence he's guilty of murder. If it's the second one, sorry about giving you hell.
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Alexander Hamilton
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« Reply #208 on: August 27, 2009, 02:37:51 PM »

Okay Hamilton, here's my biggest gripe about the whole idea of Ted Kennedy murdering Mary Jo:

I don't see why he would resort to driving off a bridge into a body of water just to shut her up while risking grave bodily harm. I mean really why not just pay the mafia to off her or get someone to poison her drink?

Please explain that part to me and maybe I'll be a little more receptive.

If you consider a driving accident where the passenger dies due to the incompetence of the driver as murder, then fine, whatever. Because right now I can't decide if you are agreeing with the super duper anti-Ted crowd that he deliberately carried out this act, or that by his incompetence he's guilty of murder. If it's the second one, sorry about giving you hell.

I am simply saying that he is involved with the death, which many believe is a murder, and handled the entire event very foolishly regardless of what actual intentions were. There is no denying he was very stupid in dealing with the event. I also said there is no firm proof of any actual murder.
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Mechaman
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« Reply #209 on: August 27, 2009, 05:24:18 PM »

Okay Hamilton, here's my biggest gripe about the whole idea of Ted Kennedy murdering Mary Jo:

I don't see why he would resort to driving off a bridge into a body of water just to shut her up while risking grave bodily harm. I mean really why not just pay the mafia to off her or get someone to poison her drink?

Please explain that part to me and maybe I'll be a little more receptive.

If you consider a driving accident where the passenger dies due to the incompetence of the driver as murder, then fine, whatever. Because right now I can't decide if you are agreeing with the super duper anti-Ted crowd that he deliberately carried out this act, or that by his incompetence he's guilty of murder. If it's the second one, sorry about giving you hell.

I am simply saying that he is involved with the death, which many believe is a murder, and handled the entire event very foolishly regardless of what actual intentions were. There is no denying he was very stupid in dealing with the event. I also said there is no firm proof of any actual murder.

Oh okay, well then sorry.
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« Reply #210 on: August 27, 2009, 05:49:43 PM »
« Edited: August 27, 2009, 05:51:20 PM by Snowguy716 »

At worst it was gross negligence on Ted's part.  He states that he jumped back into the water to try and rescue her.  The only two people that know for sure are Ted and Mary Jo.  We can speculate all day long.. but to assume he just left her to die because you think he's a S"OMGW OBAMA HUSSEIN SOCIALIST MARXISM!@#" is ridiculous.

What would you do in a situation like that where your car was sinking?

As they say on an airplane "if the oxygen masks should deploy, secure the mask on yourself before assisting others"

I'd be in panic/shock/survival mode at that point and trying to save myself.  It would probably take until I got out of the water and had a few seconds to assess what just happened before I jumped back in trying to save the passenger.

 I mean.. what the hell?  I'd assume she tried to get out of the vehicle as well.. and when I got out of the water and didn't see her come up behind me, THEN I would jump in...

It's not like Ted, who was probably drunk anyway, was sitting under water going "Okay.. stay calm.  Is Mary Jo conscious?  Is she able to exit the vehicle and swim to safety?  I'd better figure this out before I save myself lest someone think I MURDERED her!!!"

Seriously people.. don't hold others in higher regard than yourself.  It's just not right.  You would've probably done the same exact thing... and knowing you were drunk and cheating on your wife and knowing you could face intense public scrutiny and prosecution, you'd be less likely to call the police.

It's a big reason why, for example, at my university the student was always promoting the good samaritan rule... that if a friend or somebody needed assistance due to drinking too much alcohol or any other incident where they needed help.. you should call security knowing that you would not implicate yourself in the process.

There were times when students had to be rushed to the hospital because the underage drinkers with them were too afraid to call campus security because they didn't want to get written up.

It's the same type of thing.  You can't expect people to report crimes or incidences if you're going to say "thanks for calling and helping, now put your hands behind your back.. you're under arrest"
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #211 on: August 27, 2009, 06:01:25 PM »

I am simply saying that he is involved with the death, which many believe is a murder, and handled the entire event very foolishly regardless of what actual intentions were. There is no denying he was very stupid in dealing with the event. I also said there is no firm proof of any actual murder.

Hmm...

Ted Kennedy was in no way shape a form a moral, upstanding citizen. In fact, he is involved in numerous crimes, some more deadly than others.

Regardless, someone directly involved in a murder is generally no better than a bigot. Nor did I make a claim to them being completely equal. I just find it vile that despite all the bad things Teddy has done, he is glorified, while despite all the good things Helms has done he is villainized.

He was involved. That is fact, there is proof.

Hmm...

You shouldn't be so brazenly dishonest and slippery, you know. You'll get a bad name for yourself.
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Rob
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« Reply #212 on: August 27, 2009, 06:07:50 PM »

Any more than Laura Bush murdered her high school ex-boyfriend by running him down with her car—a tragedy that has mercifully not been exploited for political purposes.

Because no Republicans were peddling the story.
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Mechaman
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« Reply #213 on: August 27, 2009, 07:17:32 PM »

At worst it was gross negligence on Ted's part.  He states that he jumped back into the water to try and rescue her.  The only two people that know for sure are Ted and Mary Jo.  We can speculate all day long.. but to assume he just left her to die because you think he's a S"OMGW OBAMA HUSSEIN SOCIALIST MARXISM!@#" is ridiculous.

What would you do in a situation like that where your car was sinking?

As they say on an airplane "if the oxygen masks should deploy, secure the mask on yourself before assisting others"

I'd be in panic/shock/survival mode at that point and trying to save myself.  It would probably take until I got out of the water and had a few seconds to assess what just happened before I jumped back in trying to save the passenger.

 I mean.. what the hell?  I'd assume she tried to get out of the vehicle as well.. and when I got out of the water and didn't see her come up behind me, THEN I would jump in...

It's not like Ted, who was probably drunk anyway, was sitting under water going "Okay.. stay calm.  Is Mary Jo conscious?  Is she able to exit the vehicle and swim to safety?  I'd better figure this out before I save myself lest someone think I MURDERED her!!!"

Seriously people.. don't hold others in higher regard than yourself.  It's just not right.  You would've probably done the same exact thing... and knowing you were drunk and cheating on your wife and knowing you could face intense public scrutiny and prosecution, you'd be less likely to call the police.

It's a big reason why, for example, at my university the student was always promoting the good samaritan rule... that if a friend or somebody needed assistance due to drinking too much alcohol or any other incident where they needed help.. you should call security knowing that you would not implicate yourself in the process.

There were times when students had to be rushed to the hospital because the underage drinkers with them were too afraid to call campus security because they didn't want to get written up.

It's the same type of thing.  You can't expect people to report crimes or incidences if you're going to say "thanks for calling and helping, now put your hands behind your back.. you're under arrest"

Having been in an airplane where the air cabin pressure dropped, I can very well attest to this survival instinct. I didn't give a damn about my best friend, I was worried about my own damned lungs first. I know what I just said was heartless, but it's true.

That is probably what happened with Ted Kennedy, that and plus the fact that he may have been drunk and having an affair weighed heavily on his mind. I mean politicians get alot of crap for being immoral bastards nowdays, imagine what it was like back in the late 60s in heavily Catholic Massachusetts.
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