Jesse Helms Dead at 86

[Alexander Hamilton]

Jesse Helms did some horrible things. Ted Kennedy did some horrible things. Jesse Helms was committed to what he believed in. Ted Kennedy was committed to what he believed in. Jesse Helms worked his ass off for his constituents' views to have a voice. Ted Kennedy worked his ass off for his constituents' views to have a voice. Jesse Helms has numerous accomplishments to be proud of. Ted Kennedy has numerous accomplishments to be proud of. We all need to be fair to these men if we are going to continue to have valid arguments. Hypocrisy is not respected.

[Alexander Hamilton]

I promised hell when this moron died (Kennedy) if liberals didn't respect conservatives and the double standard has driven me to the point where this is necessary

Do you have parents? Because evidently no one ever taught you that two wrongs don't make a right.

He was educated in a New Jersey public school....enough said.

NJ's public schools are ranked number one. Or they were.

[Alexander Hamilton]

Hypocrisy is not respected.

Particularly from you.

You're still a dumbass. Does anyone on here like you? Honestly, I'd rather hear what JokeConservative has to say.

[Alexander Hamilton]

Hypocrisy is not respected.

Particularly from you.

You're still a dumbass.

'Least I'm not a self-serving hypocrite.

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Do I care?

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Especially since you envy his ability to say what you secretly want to.

I'm not a self-serving hypocrite and I deplore JokeConservative's ideas related to anything. As I do yours. Stop making Democrats look bad.

[Alexander Hamilton]

Hypocrisy is not respected.

Particularly from you.

You're still a dumbass.

'Least I'm not a self-serving hypocrite.

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Do I care?

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Especially since you envy his ability to say what you secretly want to.

I'm not a self-serving hypocrite

Sure you are. You don't stand up for sh**t in the face of the right-wing.

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No you don't. You like to pretend you do, though.

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Except I'm a libertarian.

Unlike you, lolol!

You have a D avatar. That makes Democrats look bad. And I don't know why you say I don't stand up for sh**t in the face of the right-wing when I have repeatedly bitchslapped the Religious Right and the radical right. What have you done to try and engage in reasonable debate with other posters? You merely attack people, pick fights, and try and get a self-esteem boost out of it. Not respectable. NEXT

[Alexander Hamilton]

Jesse Helms did some horrible things. Ted Kennedy did some horrible things. Jesse Helms was committed to what he believed in. Ted Kennedy was committed to what he believed in. Jesse Helms worked his ass off for his constituents' views to have a voice. Ted Kennedy worked his ass off for his constituents' views to have a voice. Jesse Helms has numerous accomplishments to be proud of. Ted Kennedy has numerous accomplishments to be proud of. We all need to be fair to these men if we are going to continue to have valid arguments. Hypocrisy is not respected.

I am sorry but you just cannot compare Jesse Helms to Ted Kennedy. Jesse Helms was a racist and a bigot who is surely getting deep fried in hell as we speak if it exists at all. Kennedy on the other hand, in his illustrious senate career, has helped those who were downtrodden in society like women, minorities and the disabled. You might not have agreed with all his policies and that is quite understandable, but that does not make him morally equivalent to a bigot. And I would say the same thing about most republican senators who I disagree with, but cretins like Jesse Helms and Jeff Sessions are on a different plane.

Ted Kennedy was in no way shape a form a moral, upstanding citizen. In fact, he is involved in numerous crimes, some more deadly than others.

[Alexander Hamilton]

Jesse Helms did some horrible things. Ted Kennedy did some horrible things. Jesse Helms was committed to what he believed in. Ted Kennedy was committed to what he believed in. Jesse Helms worked his ass off for his constituents' views to have a voice. Ted Kennedy worked his ass off for his constituents' views to have a voice. Jesse Helms has numerous accomplishments to be proud of. Ted Kennedy has numerous accomplishments to be proud of. We all need to be fair to these men if we are going to continue to have valid arguments. Hypocrisy is not respected.

Follow that line of reasoning and soon you'll say that it's wrong to condemn Hitler, Stalin and an entire host of bloodthirsty maniacs on the basis that to do so would be hypocritical. Moral relativism and empty politeness are the death of honest debate.

I never said not to be critical of them. I was critical of both senators. I said to be fair to them regardless of their political views.

Regardless, someone directly involved in a murder is generally no better than a bigot. Nor did I make a claim to them being completely equal. I just find it vile that despite all the bad things Teddy has done, he is glorified, while despite all the good things Helms has done he is villainized.

[Alexander Hamilton]

Jesse Helms did some horrible things. Ted Kennedy did some horrible things. Jesse Helms was committed to what he believed in. Ted Kennedy was committed to what he believed in. Jesse Helms worked his ass off for his constituents' views to have a voice. Ted Kennedy worked his ass off for his constituents' views to have a voice. Jesse Helms has numerous accomplishments to be proud of. Ted Kennedy has numerous accomplishments to be proud of. We all need to be fair to these men if we are going to continue to have valid arguments. Hypocrisy is not respected.

I am sorry but you just cannot compare Jesse Helms to Ted Kennedy. Jesse Helms was a racist and a bigot who is surely getting deep fried in hell as we speak if it exists at all. Kennedy on the other hand, in his illustrious senate career, has helped those who were downtrodden in society like women, minorities and the disabled. You might not have agreed with all his policies and that is quite understandable, but that does not make him morally equivalent to a bigot. And I would say the same thing about most republican senators who I disagree with, but cretins like Jesse Helms and Jeff Sessions are on a different plane.

Ted Kennedy was in no way shape a form a moral, upstanding citizen. In fact, he is involved in numerous crimes, some more deadly than others.

Like murder? I require proof if you are going to make bold statements like that. I don't know what other crimes he committed so maybe you can expand on that too. I know Kennedy wasn't perfect, but he was much better than racist trash like Jesse Helms.

He was involved. That is fact, there is proof.
"On July 18, 1969, at approximately 11:15 p.m. in Chappaquiddick, Martha's Vineyard, Massachusetts, I was driving my car on Main Street on my way to get the ferry back to Edgartown. I was unfamiliar with the road and turned right onto Dike Road, instead of bearing hard left on Main Street. After proceeding for approximately one-half mile on Dike Road I descended a hill and came upon a narrow bridge. The car went off the side of the bridge. There was one passenger with me, one Miss Mary [Kopechne],[17] a former secretary of my brother Sen. Robert Kennedy. The car turned over and sank into the water and landed with the roof resting on the bottom. I attempted to open the door and the window of the car but have no recollection of how I got out of the car. I came to the surface and then repeatedly dove down to the car in an attempt to see if the passenger was still in the car. I was unsuccessful in the attempt. I was exhausted and in a state of shock. I recall walking back to where my friends were eating. There was a car parked in front of the cottage and I climbed into the backseat. I then asked for someone to bring me back to Edgartown. I remember walking around for a period and then going back to my hotel room. When I fully realized what had happened this morning, I immediately contacted the police."- Ted Kennedy

So there is his own admission of involvement, speculation says there is more but that is not firmly proven.

[Alexander Hamilton]

Jesse Helms did some horrible things. Ted Kennedy did some horrible things. Jesse Helms was committed to what he believed in. Ted Kennedy was committed to what he believed in. Jesse Helms worked his ass off for his constituents' views to have a voice. Ted Kennedy worked his ass off for his constituents' views to have a voice. Jesse Helms has numerous accomplishments to be proud of. Ted Kennedy has numerous accomplishments to be proud of. We all need to be fair to these men if we are going to continue to have valid arguments. Hypocrisy is not respected.

I am sorry but you just cannot compare Jesse Helms to Ted Kennedy. Jesse Helms was a racist and a bigot who is surely getting deep fried in hell as we speak if it exists at all. Kennedy on the other hand, in his illustrious senate career, has helped those who were downtrodden in society like women, minorities and the disabled. You might not have agreed with all his policies and that is quite understandable, but that does not make him morally equivalent to a bigot. And I would say the same thing about most republican senators who I disagree with, but cretins like Jesse Helms and Jeff Sessions are on a different plane.

Ted Kennedy was in no way shape a form a moral, upstanding citizen. In fact, he is involved in numerous crimes, some more deadly than others.

Like murder? I require proof if you are going to make bold statements like that. I don't know what other crimes he committed so maybe you can expand on that too. I know Kennedy wasn't perfect, but he was much better than racist trash like Jesse Helms.

He was involved. That is fact, there is proof.
"On July 18, 1969, at approximately 11:15 p.m. in Chappaquiddick, Martha's Vineyard, Massachusetts, I was driving my car on Main Street on my way to get the ferry back to Edgartown. I was unfamiliar with the road and turned right onto Dike Road, instead of bearing hard left on Main Street. After proceeding for approximately one-half mile on Dike Road I descended a hill and came upon a narrow bridge. The car went off the side of the bridge. There was one passenger with me, one Miss Mary [Kopechne],[17] a former secretary of my brother Sen. Robert Kennedy. The car turned over and sank into the water and landed with the roof resting on the bottom. I attempted to open the door and the window of the car but have no recollection of how I got out of the car. I came to the surface and then repeatedly dove down to the car in an attempt to see if the passenger was still in the car. I was unsuccessful in the attempt. I was exhausted and in a state of shock. I recall walking back to where my friends were eating. There was a car parked in front of the cottage and I climbed into the backseat. I then asked for someone to bring me back to Edgartown. I remember walking around for a period and then going back to my hotel room. When I fully realized what had happened this morning, I immediately contacted the police."- Ted Kennedy

So there is his own admission of involvement, speculation says there is more but that is not firmly proven.

Like I told someone earlier, if anyone is going to claim murder they need irrevokable truth that Ted did in fact murder someone. From what I've read so far it would be reasonable to conclude that he might've been having an affair with Mary Jo (he told his chaffeur to stay at the party, she left her hotel key), however it would be to rash to conclude that he plotted out to murder her. My personal opinion? Ted Kennedy and Mary Jo were having an affair and Teddy wanted to take her to somewhere more private. He made a wrong turn and ended up plunging into the water. INSTINCTUALLY TED GOT OUT OF THE CAR AND WENT FOR SHORE, CAN ANYONE TELL ME POINT BLANK IF THEY WERE UNDERWATER IN A CAR THEIR FIRST THOUGHT WOULD BE "I MUST LET SO AND SO GO FIRST?" Unless it was someone who was of blood relation or very close to me, I probably would've responded (on instinct) just like Ted did. In events of life or death many people will choose instinct over any rational thought. According to Ted himself he called out to Mary Jo to see if she had got out and even tried to swim towards her to save her before he got tired and passed out on the shore. He walked all the way back to the party instead of the to the houses nearby because he would have a lot less explaining to do to his friends as to why Edward Kennedy had a young female staffer in the car with him. If there is a moral fault here it's that Ted might've been cheating on his wife, not that he plotted in the death of a young woman. After all, the Kennedys were known just as much for their philanderous ways as they were about their natural unluckiness.

That's at least my two cents.

Did you even read wrote I wrote? Or do you just like to rant against claims not made?

[Alexander Hamilton]

Okay Hamilton, here's my biggest gripe about the whole idea of Ted Kennedy murdering Mary Jo:

I don't see why he would resort to driving off a bridge into a body of water just to shut her up while risking grave bodily harm. I mean really why not just pay the mafia to off her or get someone to poison her drink?

Please explain that part to me and maybe I'll be a little more receptive.

If you consider a driving accident where the passenger dies due to the incompetence of the driver as murder, then fine, whatever. Because right now I can't decide if you are agreeing with the super duper anti-Ted crowd that he deliberately carried out this act, or that by his incompetence he's guilty of murder. If it's the second one, sorry about giving you hell.

I am simply saying that he is involved with the death, which many believe is a murder, and handled the entire event very foolishly regardless of what actual intentions were. There is no denying he was very stupid in dealing with the event. I also said there is no firm proof of any actual murder.