Obama to hold mass rally for acceptance speech at Mile High Stadium

[Lunar]

Ok, fine. Would you like the inauguration there as well?

Sure, why not?  I don't really see a reason to care.

Whatever floats your boat, I guess.

That's still not really answering my question.  It obviously pisses you off for an affirmative reason.  I doubt you normally get annoyed about "boat-floating" concerns.

Uh...I can't tell if this is serious or not especially since you didn't really ask me a question.

The question was the part in his post with the question mark.  "Why not?"

Good potential answers include words like sensationalism and cheesiness cheapening the legitimacy of the presidency.

I think most of the Republicans criticizing Obama for doing this are really just subconsciously jealous, just like most Democrats here would be if McCain could fill a football stadium and Obama couldn't do something a quarter that size.  I know it sounds harsh to say "you're just jealous," but really, there aren't that any valid reasons I can think of as to why it's bad, while I can think of many that 

[Keystone Phil]

The question was the part in his post with the question mark.  "Why not?"

Seemed more rhetorical to me, smartass. Thanks.

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Eh, that's like telling me, "You're just jealous because all of the Hollywood celebrities want the other guy and you're stuck with all the losers backing your guy." Big crowds at these rallies don't mean as much as everyone loves to believe. Obama brought in thousands for a rally in Idaho. He could probably bring in thousands for a rally in Utah and Wyoming. It means little. It's nothing for me to be jealous about.

[Alcon]

It wasn't rhetorical.  You were giving an example of a situation where you thought I'd get offended, to explain your offense.  I was asking "why not?" -- that is, what was wrong with doing the thing that was supposed to offend me.

I still don't totally understand.  So Obama has an enthusiasm gap and wants to show it off on TV.  Right?

[Keystone Phil]

It wasn't rhetorical.  You were giving an example of a situation where you thought I'd get offended, to explain your offense.  I was asking "why not?" -- that is, what was wrong with doing the thing that was supposed to offend me.

I don't understand what the hell that means. I said, "Whatever floats your boat." You wouldn't mind having him do the inauguration at a stadium. That's your preference. I don't get how I was suggesting that you'd be offended.

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I explained this to you already so now you're just trying to be difficult.

[Alcon]

I don't understand what the hell that means. I said, "Whatever floats your boat." You wouldn't mind having him do the inauguration at a stadium. That's your preference. I don't get how I was suggesting that you'd be offended.

I assumed (incorrectly?) that your response to Smash was a reductio ad absurdum sort of deal.

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I explained this to you already so now you're just trying to be difficult.

I guess that I was assuming a bit of an AIM/forum disconnect for the audience here.  I understand your explanation, sort of.  You don't like how Obama is running on a "new kind of politics," and you see this break from tradition as part of that.  Right.  OK.  But if you're working back to use this as evidence of his bad-ness, I'm just not on-board with that explanation.

[Keystone Phil]

I guess that I was assuming a bit of an AIM/forum disconnect for the audience here.  I understand your explanation, sort of.  You don't like how Obama is running on a "new kind of politics," and you see this break from tradition as part of that.  Right.  OK.  But if you're working back to use this as evidence of his bad-ness, I'm just not on-board with that explanation.

This doesn't really make him "bad." It just annoys me. I also think this is a sign of his inflated ego. As I said earlier, these crowds don't really affect the viewers so I don't get why he doesn't just do this at the convention. Again, this isn't him being "bad," just irritating.

[Alcon]

This doesn't really make him "bad." It just annoys me. I also think this is a sign of his inflated ego. As I said earlier, these crowds don't really affect the viewers so I don't get why he doesn't just do this at the convention. Again, this isn't him being "bad," just irritating.

Right.  So it is more that this is circumstantial evidence of his inflated ego, than the act itself is bad?  That's a fair response.  It's what I've been trying to elicit.

[Torie]

This doesn't really make him "bad." It just annoys me. I also think this is a sign of his inflated ego. As I said earlier, these crowds don't really affect the viewers so I don't get why he doesn't just do this at the convention. Again, this isn't him being "bad," just irritating.

Right.  So it is more that this is circumstantial evidence of his inflated ego, than the act itself is bad?  That's a fair response.  It's what I've been trying to elicit.

Don't most politicians have "inflated egos?"

[Fmr. Pres. Duke]

This doesn't really make him "bad." It just annoys me. I also think this is a sign of his inflated ego. As I said earlier, these crowds don't really affect the viewers so I don't get why he doesn't just do this at the convention. Again, this isn't him being "bad," just irritating.

Right.  So it is more that this is circumstantial evidence of his inflated ego, than the act itself is bad?  That's a fair response.  It's what I've been trying to elicit.

Don't most politicians have "inflated egos?"

Of course. You have to to run for office, especially the Presidency. I think the argument being made here is Obama's ego is especially huge for a politician.

[Flying Dog]

This doesn't really make him "bad." It just annoys me. I also think this is a sign of his inflated ego. As I said earlier, these crowds don't really affect the viewers so I don't get why he doesn't just do this at the convention. Again, this isn't him being "bad," just irritating.

Right.  So it is more that this is circumstantial evidence of his inflated ego, than the act itself is bad?  That's a fair response.  It's what I've been trying to elicit.

Don't most politicians have "inflated egos?"

Of course. You have to to run for office, especially the Presidency. I think the argument being made here is Obama's ego is especially huge for a politician.

Do we have a meter now that measures politicians ego's?

[Fmr. Pres. Duke]

This doesn't really make him "bad." It just annoys me. I also think this is a sign of his inflated ego. As I said earlier, these crowds don't really affect the viewers so I don't get why he doesn't just do this at the convention. Again, this isn't him being "bad," just irritating.

Right.  So it is more that this is circumstantial evidence of his inflated ego, than the act itself is bad?  That's a fair response.  It's what I've been trying to elicit.

Don't most politicians have "inflated egos?"

Of course. You have to to run for office, especially the Presidency. I think the argument being made here is Obama's ego is especially huge for a politician.

Do we have a meter now that measures politicians ego's?

No, but insisting on moving your acceptance speech to a football stadium so you can have 80,000 people listen to you in person is a fine rule of measure.

[Sbane]

This doesn't really make him "bad." It just annoys me. I also think this is a sign of his inflated ego. As I said earlier, these crowds don't really affect the viewers so I don't get why he doesn't just do this at the convention. Again, this isn't him being "bad," just irritating.

Right.  So it is more that this is circumstantial evidence of his inflated ego, than the act itself is bad?  That's a fair response.  It's what I've been trying to elicit.

Don't most politicians have "inflated egos?"

Of course. You have to to run for office, especially the Presidency. I think the argument being made here is Obama's ego is especially huge for a politician.

Do we have a meter now that measures politicians ego's?

No, but insisting on moving your acceptance speech to a football stadium so you can have 80,000 people listen to you in person is a fine rule of measure.

Insisting? I doubt this was just his decision, I am sure both the DNC and his advisers must love this idea. I think the mayor of Denver is on board too. Its not like he is acting a brat and he must get his way against the wishes of the democratic party and the city of Denver.

[Lunar]

The question was the part in his post with the question mark.  "Why not?"

Seemed more rhetorical to me, smartass. Thanks.

As Alcon said, it wasn't.  I mean, I understand why you ignored it (it could be construed as rhetorical) but when he mentions that you ignored his question it's pretty clear what the question is.

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I agree to some extent.  If Republicans complained that Obama was showing off with his celebrity endorsements constantly and accused him of being self-centered because of him showing up and making millions at big Hollywood fundraisers, I might level the accusation again.

Obama has plenty of material for people to ding him on, he's in no ways perfect.  Why choose the most petty of things to level the big guns (as big as one can find on this forum)?

[Keystone Phil]

I just hope everyone's praying that it doesn't literally rain on the Obama parade that night. It sure would suck if Obama had to be humbled with a crowd of just 20,000 instead of 80,000-100,000!

[Torie]

I just hope everyone's praying that it doesn't literally rain on the Obama parade that night. It sure would suck if Obama had to be humbled with a crowd of just 20,000 instead of 80,000-100,000!

If it is really inclement, it will just move back indoors. Gosh, I wish this thread would die. But nobody cares what I think.

[Alcon]

I just hope everyone's praying that it doesn't literally rain on the Obama parade that night. It sure would suck if Obama had to be humbled with a crowd of just 20,000 instead of 80,000-100,000!

It seems to me that spite isn't an especially superior personality trait to ego, especially for someone with the luxury of not being a U.S. Presidential candidate. 

[Lunar]

I guess that I was assuming a bit of an AIM/forum disconnect for the audience here.  I understand your explanation, sort of.  You don't like how Obama is running on a "new kind of politics," and you see this break from tradition as part of that.  Right.  OK.  But if you're working back to use this as evidence of his bad-ness, I'm just not on-board with that explanation.

This doesn't really make him "bad." It just annoys me. I also think this is a sign of his inflated ego. As I said earlier, these crowds don't really affect the viewers so I don't get why he doesn't just do this at the convention. Again, this isn't him being "bad," just irritating.

So, you really think that his advisers are telling Obama that giving one of the key speeches in his campaign in front of a huge (!) audience, the speech that more people in the country will watch than anything else, will have no effect whatsoever on the local and national media covering the event?  It's pure egotism?  Are you serious?

I don't mean to be a smartass.  Obama and McCain are probably about equally ambitious as far as I can tell, they both wanted to be president from a young age (McCain wanted to do something to "get himself into the history books" when a teenager, Obama told his kindergarten teacher he wanted to be president).  Are you really going to think that if McCain could do the same thing, and he thought it could help him win the presidency, that he wouldn't do it?

Having 75k people screaming his name DOES help for the *one* speech that people will watch.  It shows him as acceptable, popular, and commanding.  Those are all three adjectives he needs to convey in order to win.  I don't see why he should intentionally go out of his way to be humble if it means he might lose the presidency because of it.  Voters are unquestionably swayed by the political conventions, thus the traditional "post-convention bump" that occurs every time and is generally more significant than any other bump in the campaign cycle.  So these conventions do have an impact and I'm 100% certain that Obama and his advisers think giving what may be the best speech of his campaign (McCain's speech will probably be his best speech too) in front of more people will give him more stuff that translates into votes.

[Keystone Phil]

So, you really think that his advisers are telling Obama that giving one of the key speeches in his campaign in front of a huge (!) audience, the speech that more people in the country will watch than anything else, will have no effect whatsoever on the local and national media covering the event?  It's pure egotism?  Are you serious?

The crowd is mainly egotistical, yes. Any advisor with a clue would realize that the size of a crowd at an acceptance speech won't affect how people feel about this guy. It doesn't matter who is watching/covering it. Does it get mentioned/noticed? Sure. Will it change a single vote? Well, wouldn't this be an appropriate question for a BRTD poll...

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No, I'm pretty sure you are and I'd have a lot more respect for you if you just said it.

 

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Maybe he would do it but maybe you aren't following this very simple point - I don't care who does it. I would be even more irritated if McCain did it especially because it won't help him win.

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Sure the conventions can have an impact but did Bush receive a big bounce because of his speech or because the crowd was waving "USA" signs? This isn't about the crowd.

[Lunar]

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No, I'm pretty sure you are and I'd have a lot more respect for you if you just said it.

Dawg, I'm not going to engage in aggressive internet-fights trying to gain anonymous internet respect.  I stopped reading at this point, I think I'll bow out of this thread.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Since even Phil seems to be agreeing this isn't going to affect the election or anyone's vote (unlike J. J.), why is he pushing this thread past 15 pages over something irrelevant?

[J. J.]

I agree to some extent.  If Republicans complained that Obama was showing off with his celebrity endorsements constantly and accused him of being self-centered because of him showing up and making millions at big Hollywood fundraisers, I might level the accusation again.

Obama has plenty of material for people to ding him on, he's in no ways perfect.  Why choose the most petty of things to level the big guns (as big as one can find on this forum)?

You mean Republicans like Jesse Jackson?

This entire thing is a perception problem for Obama, and this does not help.

[Keystone Phil]

Since even Phil seems to be agreeing this isn't going to affect the election or anyone's vote (unlike J. J.), why is he pushing this thread past 15 pages over something irrelevant?

Because it annoys me. We discuss plenty of irrelevant things here, Zachy (you of all people should know this), so what's your point?

[Tender Branson]

The hottest ticket in town was literally burning the ears of the phone operators Thursday.

That would be the ticket for Barack Obama's Aug. 28 nomination acceptance speech at Invesco Field at Mile High — an event expected to draw 75,000 people on the final night of the Democratic National Convention.

In about a 24-hour period, 60,000 Coloradans had submitted requests for tickets — forcing the Obama campaign to start a waiting list. The campaign and the Democratic National Convention Committee said more than half of the available seating would go to Colorado residents.

"We're pleased that so many people want to be part of this historic event," Obama spokesman Matt Chandler said. "We've said from the start this is going to be America's convention, and I think we've seen today that it's truly going to be Colorado's convention, too."

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/news/2008/aug/07/obama-ticket-lines-jammed/

[Nym90]

Those complaining about Obama's arrogance and ego probably mostly loved Bush's for the longest time.

Of course everyone likes confidence and arrogance when the "good guys" do it....

[Keystone Phil]

Those complaining about Obama's arrogance and ego probably mostly loved Bush's for the longest time.

Of course everyone likes confidence and arrogance when the "good guys" do it....

Bush wasn't the type wanting his face on t-shirts like Che or stuff like that. When Bush was called an "American Revolutionary" in the TIME 2004 Person of the Year issue, I thought it was a bit much.