Obama to hold mass rally for acceptance speech at Mile High Stadium

[Aizen]

I thought it was when the election was over. If he won or not. Good, those kids deserve something after having to be without their dads for long stretches at a time.

Actually, that is not psychologically healthy for children at all.   And I'm not sure how it works, but either way it was in exchange for something.  Giving children something as a replacement for a father's absence is, in and of itself, damaging to a child, as it teaches them any number of lessons, none of which are positive.  And the very fact that they thought they could make this demand is telling in and of itself.  That is my point,

okay

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No.

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You are crazy. Seek help.

[Albus Dumbledore]

How is claiming that Obama may be mentally troubled something worthy of immediante institutionalization?

[12th Doctor]

I've now come to the conclusion that I might as well stop posting altogether because I am never going to be taken seriously on this forum ever again... not that about 40% of the posters already didn't take me seriously.

[Albus Dumbledore]

Or maybe you could realize that obama fanboys are a bit off their rocker and that being driven off of atlas by a few nuts is going a tad too far in reacting.

[Torie]

I thought it was when the election was over. If he won or not. Good, those kids deserve something after having to be without their dads for long stretches at a time.

Actually, that is not psychologically healthy for children at all.   And I'm not sure how it works, but either way it was in exchange for something.  Giving children something as a replacement for a father's absence is, in and of itself, damaging to a child, as it teaches them any number of lessons, none of which are positive.  And the very fact that they thought they could make this demand is telling in and of itself.  That is my point, and by God its a valid one.  I don't care how crazy people think I am for bringing it up.

My Dad was absent a lot on business - a lot. However, when around, we loved him, and admired his personal qualities and character and his three sons wished to emulate him, and largely did. He gave us everything, but it didn't spoil us, because we didn't want to disappoint him. That would have been totally beyond the pale.

In short, it is a bit more complex than you might suggest. The point is, if you really admire a parent for who they are as a person, and know that when the going gets tough, they are there for you, the numbers of hours around becomes less significant. Just my two cents. I suspect Obama over time might be in that category for his kids, although obviously I don't know the interplay with his kids up close and personal.

[Albus Dumbledore]

The Obamaniac frothing lynch mob we see in this thread sure inspires a total lack of confidence for what'd happen in the US if he loses. I wonder how long the rioting would go on for before the army finishes putting it down?

[Aizen]

The Obamaniac frothing lynch mob we see in this thread sure inspires a total lack of confidence for what'd happen in the US if he loses. I wonder how long the rioting would go on for before the army finishes putting it down?

Valid arguments against Obama would include lack of experience, his flip-flopping etc. Invalid arguments would include moving to a bigger stadium and getting his kids a puppy. If you use an invalid argument, you deserve nothing but scorn and ridicule. This is applicable to both sides.

[12th Doctor]

I thought it was when the election was over. If he won or not. Good, those kids deserve something after having to be without their dads for long stretches at a time.

Actually, that is not psychologically healthy for children at all.   And I'm not sure how it works, but either way it was in exchange for something.  Giving children something as a replacement for a father's absence is, in and of itself, damaging to a child, as it teaches them any number of lessons, none of which are positive.  And the very fact that they thought they could make this demand is telling in and of itself.  That is my point, and by God its a valid one.  I don't care how crazy people think I am for bringing it up.

My Dad was absent a lot on business - a lot. However, when around, we loved him, and admired his personal qualities and character and his three sons wished to emulate him, and largely did. He gave us everything, but it didn't spoil us, because we didn't want to disappoint him. That would have been totally beyond the pale.

In short, it is a bit more complex than you might suggest. The point is, if you really admire a parent for who they are as a person, and know that when the going gets tough, they are there for you, the numbers of hours around becomes less significant. Just my two cents. I suspect Obama over time might be in that category for his kids, although obviously I don't know the interplay with his kids up close and personal.

Yes, I know its complex, which is why I said "any number of things".  Long absences of a father aren't good for children anyway, but giving them something for it, even if its lovable, and cute, and seems like it loves you back, really isn't the way to handle the situation.

Believe me, I know all about paternal absence... my father was absent... oh... always.  As for my step-father, well, the only time I knew he was around was when he was yelling at me and telling me how worthless I was, so.....

[Albus Dumbledore]

I was noting a disturbing trend among some of his supporters in this thread. Obama and Paul share one thing in common -- their internet supporters tend to be frothing at the mouse and form into mobs at the slightest provocation. Perhaps late 2008 will be the time flashmob terrorism is introduced to the western mileu as disappointed Obama supporters react to their messiah's loss by going on rampages.

[Torie]

SS, abusive parental authority, or unloving and uncaring authority, or lack thereof, is no doubt toxic.

[Flying Dog]

I thought it was when the election was over. If he won or not. Good, those kids deserve something after having to be without their dads for long stretches at a time.

Actually, that is not psychologically healthy for children at all.   And I'm not sure how it works, but either way it was in exchange for something.  Giving children something as a replacement for a father's absence is, in and of itself, damaging to a child, as it teaches them any number of lessons, none of which are positive.  And the very fact that they thought they could make this demand is telling in and of itself.  That is my point, and by God its a valid one.  I don't care how crazy people think I am for bringing it up.

My Dad was absent a lot on business - a lot. However, when around, we loved him, and admired his personal qualities and character and his three sons wished to emulate him, and largely did. He gave us everything, but it didn't spoil us, because we didn't want to disappoint him. That would have been totally beyond the pale.

In short, it is a bit more complex than you might suggest. The point is, if you really admire a parent for who they are as a person, and know that when the going gets tough, they are there for you, the numbers of hours around becomes less significant. Just my two cents. I suspect Obama over time might be in that category for his kids, although obviously I don't know the interplay with his kids up close and personal.

Yes, I know its complex, which is why I said "any number of things".  Long absences of a father aren't good for children anyway, but giving them something for it, even if its lovable, and cute, and seems like it loves you back, really isn't the way to handle the situation.

How do you know that is the only thing Barack and Michelle are doing/have done. The fact of the matter is that you are in no position to judge their family situation. Sorry...

[The Mikado]

I was noting a disturbing trend among some of his supporters in this thread. Obama and Paul share one thing in common -- their internet supporters tend to be frothing at the mouse and form into mobs at the slightest provocation. Perhaps late 2008 will be the time flashmob terrorism is introduced to the western mileu as disappointed Obama supporters react to their messiah's loss by going on rampages.

Perhaps some people are upset at the comparison of a mainstream American politician holding a large rally with the political tactics of the National Socialist Worker's Party of Germany in the 1930s.

[Albus Dumbledore]

I was noting a disturbing trend among some of his supporters in this thread. Obama and Paul share one thing in common -- their internet supporters tend to be frothing at the mouse and form into mobs at the slightest provocation. Perhaps late 2008 will be the time flashmob terrorism is introduced to the western mileu as disappointed Obama supporters react to their messiah's loss by going on rampages.

Perhaps some people are upset at the comparison of a mainstream American politician holding a large rally with the political tactics of the National Socialist Worker's Party of Germany in the 1930s.

Charismatic speeches and large rallies _were_ part of the NSDAP tactics in the 30s. They prvoed effective so they've been adopted everywhere.

[Flying Dog]

I was noting a disturbing trend among some of his supporters in this thread. Obama and Paul share one thing in common -- their internet supporters tend to be frothing at the mouse and form into mobs at the slightest provocation. Perhaps late 2008 will be the time flashmob terrorism is introduced to the western mileu as disappointed Obama supporters react to their messiah's loss by going on rampages.

Perhaps you will become relevant sometime in the future. I won't hold my breath, though.

[Albus Dumbledore]

So you're going to deny that Obama is attracting the fanboy types who worship him?

[Flying Dog]

So you're going to deny that Obama is attracting the fanboy types who worship him?

No. Every candidate attracts fanatics. Just look at Hillaryis44.org for a prime example. Most of McCain's supporters aren't as vocal though because their heart monitors will go on the fritz if they get too excited.

[J. J.]

So Obama=elite + Nazi's=elite = Obama=nazi. This logic makes my head spin.

Obama = looks like he considers himself better than everyone else, i.e thinks he's elite.  Nazis = looks like they considered themselves better than everyone else, i.e thinks they were elite.  It is not a good image to project.

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Frankly, looking at the primary results, he has had a growing problem connecting with the American people.

The image of being in a stadium, even if perfectly executed, in front of people seemingly mindlessly chanting his name, is not going to evoke a non elitist image.

[Albus Dumbledore]

But but Hope and Change.

[Flying Dog]

So Obama=elite + Nazi's=elite = Obama=nazi. This logic makes my head spin.

Obama = looks like he considers himself better than everyone else, i.e thinks he's elite.  Nazis = looks like they considered themselves better than everyone else, i.e thinks they were elite.  It is not a good image to project.
Most of U.S citizens think they're better then other people (i.e. Middle East habitants)
Doesn't mean you should compare them to Nazi's.
Using that logic: Nazi's are white, Oh my, we must be neo-nazi's!

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Frankly, looking at the primary results, he has had a growing problem connecting with the American people.

The image of being in a stadium, even if perfectly executed, in front of people seemingly mindlessly chanting his name, is not going to evoke a non elitist image.

I'll provide you with the data stating that more Americans think Obama shares their values than McCain if you want.

Plus Hillary and McCain both have crowds that chant their name. This is nothing new or isolated to Obama.

[12th Doctor]

I thought it was when the election was over. If he won or not. Good, those kids deserve something after having to be without their dads for long stretches at a time.

Actually, that is not psychologically healthy for children at all.   And I'm not sure how it works, but either way it was in exchange for something.  Giving children something as a replacement for a father's absence is, in and of itself, damaging to a child, as it teaches them any number of lessons, none of which are positive.  And the very fact that they thought they could make this demand is telling in and of itself.  That is my point, and by God its a valid one.  I don't care how crazy people think I am for bringing it up.

My Dad was absent a lot on business - a lot. However, when around, we loved him, and admired his personal qualities and character and his three sons wished to emulate him, and largely did. He gave us everything, but it didn't spoil us, because we didn't want to disappoint him. That would have been totally beyond the pale.

In short, it is a bit more complex than you might suggest. The point is, if you really admire a parent for who they are as a person, and know that when the going gets tough, they are there for you, the numbers of hours around becomes less significant. Just my two cents. I suspect Obama over time might be in that category for his kids, although obviously I don't know the interplay with his kids up close and personal.

Yes, I know its complex, which is why I said "any number of things".  Long absences of a father aren't good for children anyway, but giving them something for it, even if its lovable, and cute, and seems like it loves you back, really isn't the way to handle the situation.

How do you know that is the only thing Barack and Michelle are doing/have done. The fact of the matter is that you are in no position to judge their family situation. Sorry...

But has anyone stopped to think that, for all the seems to separate Bush and Obama on the surface, they actually have quite a bit in common.

They are both the product of situations where the father was almost completely absent, though being a very successful individual, and where the mother was anything but nurturing.  Bush's mother was totally self-absorbed in her own grief following the death of Robin, while Obama's mother seems to have been quite the thrill-seeker... eitherway, neither of them provided the kind of attention a younger child should have.

Neither of them could escape being reminded of their father's success... even bearing the father's name.  And neither could escape being reminded of the absence of that father.  This has a tendency to foster confused feelings in a child.  Often times, many children will, on the surface, idolize their father to an extreme degree, but if that father is very successful, they could then in turn adopt a subconscious desire to destroy their father (and his "penis") by out-succeeding them.  This leads to extreme egotism and megalomania... essentially the child fails to successfully navigate the phallic stage, in otherwords.  Often times, these people adopt an extreme fear of having their own "penis" destroyed, and as such they will resort to anything, lying, grandiose claims, taking on a external appearance of extreme personablity, to avoid being exposed as insecure.   

For his part, Obama seems to acknowledge that he was insecure and emotionally confused, and in that regard, he at least seems to be more introspective than Bush.  That's a good, thing, but Obama resorted to drugs to ignore the pain he felt... now he smokes like a chimney.  Bush went to drinking and drugs, and now he copes with an extreme belief that he is guided by divine providence.  Both are trying to deal with the anxiety left behind by their childhoods.

Now, it is in no way certain that a person will end up like this, if they have a similar background, and certainly, there are some big differences in those of Bush and Obama, but recently, Obama has shown many of the personality qualities that are most disturbing in Bush, such as his tendency towards making claims about his own abilities and experience that just don't match with the facts, and exaggerating their own potency.  Making implausible denials and trying to change the facts afterwards.  Obama also desperately wants people to view him as one of them and as someone who can be trusted by all and in everything, and this is particularly unseemly given recent events.  Both show a disturbing tendency to "throw people under the bus" when that person becomes in the slightest way inconvenient.

Something that Obama does that Bush doesn't, that can be disturbing, is his tendency to refer to himself in the third person.  It's a sign that someone is trying to distance himself from himself.  Bob Dole started it during the 1996 campaign, because he knew he was adopting policies more conservative than his own beliefs in order to appeal to the base.  And now we get to hear "Obama will bring an end to the war..." coming from Obama.  "Obama won't do this"... "Obama will do that"....

I do have real concerns here, I'm not being crazy or trying to bring down Obama.  And I certainly could be wrong, but I think its worthy of discussion, is all.  Obviously some people would rather mock me that discuss that matter.

[J. J.]

Most of U.S citizens think they're better then other people (i.e. Middle East habitants)
Doesn't mean you should compare them to Nazi's.
Using that logic: Nazi's are white, Oh my, we must be neo-nazi's!

LOL!  You obviously don't have close interactions with Black people.  If there was a group, even liberal, and not in the least racist, that was all White, a Black person would be worried about being lynched (as a friend of mine reminded me that night).

If there was a party that was largely white (but not racist), and the majority population was not white, you'd here calls of them being Nazis.

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If you are referring to the most recent polls, he's still not a known quality.

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It's not a Nuremberg style stadium and Hillary and McCain come off as not being elitist; Obama does.  (Note that I did not say, "is.")

Look at Phila's Mayor Nutter.  A successful stock broker, Ivy League eduction, about 20 years in politics and 15 on city council.  Elite by most standards and arguably a policy wonk.  He was trailing badly in the polls.  What does he start doing? 

Running commercials showing his daughter, showing him taking her to school.  Suddenly he comes across as a regular guy, the boy next door type, a real normal guy.  White people start voting for him and get annoyed when someone calls him "not Black enough."  He wins the nomination and his wife introduces him as "My Boo, my road dawg," in a moment we all found charming and real.  He get's called, by dyed in the wool Republicans (even on this site), as "the real deal."

With Obama we get Nuremberg; with Nutter we got nice.

[Torie]

Wow, that is quite a post, SS. You must be a psych major, or something. I am suspicious of reducing individuals however to the point that they fit into psych boxes based on what we think we know from the public square.

I trust my more prosaic metrics myself. They are more tangible.

[12th Doctor]

Wow, that is quite a post, SS. You must be a psych major, or something. I am suspicious of reducing individuals however to the point that they fit into psych boxes based on what we think we know from the public square.

I trust my more prosaic metrics myself. They are more tangible.

Actually, I'm not a psych major, I just dabble... and alot of what I offered there is similar to my own life experience.  And as I said at the close of my post, I am not offering this up as a be all and end all, but when I say I note some disturbing patterns in Obama's behavior, I'm not just responding with a whistle, a leap, and a fart... I'm trying to have a serious conversation.

I don't believe people fit into boxes either, and I hope I have dealt with a number of my own issues, but acknowledging these things, rather than just sweeping them under the rug might be helpful.

[12th Doctor]

The thing that bothers me the most about Obama is his tendency to disregard his friends and supporters so blatantly when they become inconvenient, specifically because that is so contrary to his public image which he himself so carefully crafts.

It reminds me of a quote from the movie Nixon

"John, sooner or later... sooner, I think... you are going to learn something that everyone who has gotten close to Richard Nixon has figured out.  That he is the darkness reaching out for the darkness.  And eventually, its either you or him."

[bgwah]

The thing that bothers me the most about Obama is his tendency to disregard his friends and supporters so blatantly when they become inconvenient, specifically because that is so contrary to his public image which he himself so carefully crafts.

Yeah, I have to agree with this. Remember how Obama threw away his first wife away like a piece of garbage after she was in a car accident? She simply wasn't good enough anymore, so he married some rich heiress beauty queen. Typical Obama.