Who would you vote for? / Who will win?

[War on Want]

As of now, Obama/Obama, but that is likely to change repeatedly.

What! Fezzy has joined us on the Obama bus, I'm confuzzled...

Maybe I just have drain bamage and am reading this wrong.

[JSojourner]

Voting for Obama.  McCain will win.  Probably handily.

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

Voting for Obama.  McCain will win.  Probably handily.

Do you think Obama will win the popular vote though?

[Beefalow and the Consumer]

Voting for Obama.  McCain will win.  Probably handily.

Handily?  No.  My guess is it will come down to the last ballot box in a suburban Denver precinct.

[JSojourner]

well I think you give mccain WAY too much credit, first of all.  To me, he's a guy who will never ever leave until we kill every iraqi radical muslim.  Obama's much more the thinking man who will be likely to follow the best path to a more stable region.

McCain is a former naval officer who will both be able to grasp the situation on the ground (unlike Bush) and surround himself with solid military advisors who will help him form a clear and realistic path towards our eventual peaceful withdrawal.

Calling Obama an irresponsible waffler, and trusting McCain strikes me as humorous frankly, particularly coming from someone with a Dem avatar.

He is not a fake Democrat.  He just has serious reservations about Obama.  As do I, though my reservations about him are far less than those I have about McCain.

McCain, I would argue, does not grasp the reality of the situation in Iraq.  He can say the surge has been a success all he wants.  The reality is, violence against U.S. troops and Iraqi police and civilians has abated to the level it was at about two years ago.  Defining success in such a flaccid manner is one thing that contributed to our humiliation in Vietnam.  Success in a war is completely destroying your enemy and bringing him to his knees.  We have not done that.  In fact, our enemy has us paying him NOT to fight.  Some success.

McCain fails to grasp the difference between Shi'ia, Sunni and Kurd.  This fact is betrayed, only in part, by his multiple gaffes on the subject.  It is also betrayed by his inability to recognize that there can never be peace or safety in Iraq, without a brutish dictatorship in place.  George H.W. Bush and his advisors knew this. McCain seems unable to understand this and he continues to take advice from the very neocons who called Ronald Reagan an appeaser and Bush the First a weak wimp.  

This is vitally important to the discussion:  McCain said he would be open to keeping U.S. troops in Iraq for 100 years.  Then, when confronted, he backtracked -- sortof -- and said he would not keep U.S. troops in Iraq unless they were safe, like they presently are in Korea or Germany. This represents cluelessness of the highest order. Once there was a military surrender in Germany and Japan, or a cease fire in Korea, U.S. troops were no longer targets.  It was safe.  Anti-American sympathizers weren't pouring into these countries and stirring natives up against the occupation.  The occupied people were defeated and they knew it.  And compared to Iraq's factions, they were united in the desire to rebuild their nations. Not so, in Iraq.  Three large (and several small) factions are vying for control.  As they slaughter one another, they kill Americans.  And sometimes, they target Americans.  This is not Korea, not Japan, not Germany.  It is Vietnam.  The factions, if anything, our Iraqi "allies" are even more prone to the graft, corruption and brutality than the various factions in SE Asia.  The enemy's hatred for America is equal to, possibly greater than, that of the Communist insurgents.

Winning in Iraq is possible.  It would involve one, preferably, two million boots on the ground.  And it would involved ruling the occupied areas with such an iron hand that the Iraqis would be reminded of Saddam. America won't and can't do this.  So withdrawal is the only reasonable option.  McCain and the neocons cannot understand they.  They still believe wars like Vietnam can be won without a massive, overwhelming commitment of U.S. troops and a downright brutal crackdown on anyone even remotely resembling an enemy.

When McCain starts talking about that kind of war, I will listen.  Otherwise, I want a President who understands we cannot win because it is not within us to be brutes on such a massive scale.  Particularly against a nation that never attacked us.  

If we are attacked, this liberal would support a war of complete slaughter against our enemies.  Exactly like the war we fought against Japan.  If we are not attacked, we must find other ways to solve our differences.  Unless, that is, we have come to accept Vietnam as an acceptible norm.

[JSojourner]

Voting for Obama.  McCain will win.  Probably handily.

Do you think Obama will win the popular vote though?

Oh, I don't know.  I sort of doubt it, GM.  I think it will either be a close shave like Kerry losing to Bush.  Or a landslide for Mac.

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

Voting for Obama.  McCain will win.  Probably handily.

Do you think Obama will win the popular vote though?

Oh, I don't know.  I sort of doubt it, GM.  I think it will either be a close shave like Kerry losing to Bush.  Or a landslide for Mac.

I'm sticking to thinking the Big O will handily win the popular vote and McCain the EV and there is going to be near rioting on the streets if this does happen.

[jamestroll]

Clinton/McCain

[© tweed]

My heart is for Obama, but my head is for McCain.  Looking at it from a purely analytical perspective, McCain is MUCH more likely to get us out of Iraq with some semblance of order and stability in the region.  Obama's an irresponsible waffler who will create more problems in Iraq than he will solve.

My heart screams "Get out!  Get out now!  Obama! Obama!!"   But my head says, "hey, cool it for a moment, step back, relax, THINK about what you're wishing for, and do you really want to get it?"

Does that make sense?

it makes sense but you massively overvalue how much you matter.  not only does it likely not matter, at all, but your vote most certainly doesn't.  look up how many elections in US History have been decided by one vote or less.  I believe the number is seven since the start of the 20th Century.  which may sound like a lot, but it really isn't, when you look up how many elections are held every month, even.

either way it won't be you getting shot at.

nice to see you back.

[Beefalow and the Consumer]

it makes sense but you massively overvalue how much you matter.  not only does it likely not matter, at all, but your vote most certainly doesn't.  look up how many elections in US History have been decided by one vote or less.  I believe the number is seven since the start of the 20th Century.  which may sound like a lot, but it really isn't, when you look up how many elections are held every month, even.

Well, by that logic I might as well just stay home.  The 0.2 gallons of gas it takes to get to the polling place will increase CO2 levels, guaranteeing the net impact of my vote on the planet could only be negative.

either way it won't be you getting shot at.

nice to see you back.

Thanks, Miami!

[Beet]

it makes sense but you massively overvalue how much you matter.  not only does it likely not matter, at all, but your vote most certainly doesn't.  look up how many elections in US History have been decided by one vote or less.  I believe the number is seven since the start of the 20th Century.  which may sound like a lot, but it really isn't, when you look up how many elections are held every month, even.

Well, by that logic I might as well just stay home.  The 0.2 gallons of gas it takes to get to the polling place will increase CO2 levels, guaranteeing the net impact of my vote on the planet could only be negative.

You massively overvalue how much you matter to the planet's CO2 levels.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Better question: Why are you driving to the polling place? I've never done that in my life.

[7,052,770]

Obama/Obama.  I am a believer.

[© tweed]

it makes sense but you massively overvalue how much you matter.  not only does it likely not matter, at all, but your vote most certainly doesn't.  look up how many elections in US History have been decided by one vote or less.  I believe the number is seven since the start of the 20th Century.  which may sound like a lot, but it really isn't, when you look up how many elections are held every month, even.

Well, by that logic I might as well just stay home. 

exactly the point.

[Ban my account ffs!]

As of now, Obama/Obama, but that is likely to change repeatedly.

What! Fezzy has joined us on the Obama bus, I'm confuzzled...

Maybe I just have drain bamage and am reading this wrong.

Haha, no it's real.  I don't like McCain, I don't trust McCain, I don't believe in McCain's ideas, and the same can be said of the Republican Party right now.  With Obama, I can at least understand the logic behind his plans and agree with the general premise.  But, I by no means like either candidate.

I think I just crapped myself.

[nini2287]

McCain/Obama

I also very, very, very much agree with True Democrat's reasoning.  I didn't know anyone else felt the same way I did.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

As of now, Obama/Obama, but that is likely to change repeatedly.

What! Fezzy has joined us on the Obama bus, I'm confuzzled...

Maybe I just have drain bamage and am reading this wrong.

Haha, no it's real.  I don't like McCain, I don't trust McCain, I don't believe in McCain's ideas, and the same can be said of the Republican Party right now.  With Obama, I can at least understand the logic behind his plans and agree with the general premise.  But, I by no means like either candidate.

Wow, I'm impressed. Just noticed the banner too. Thank you fezzy.

[Robespierre's Jaw]

Obama/Obama

But my hope in Obama will deminish as soon as he is elected President. So much for change.