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  I may find out if Pawlenty is the running mate today...
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Author Topic: I may find out if Pawlenty is the running mate today...  (Read 22253 times)
J. J.
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« Reply #125 on: August 25, 2008, 06:14:33 pm »


Why and where?  Yes, a Mormon hurts in some areas, but those areas will still go for McCain.

The fact that he's flip flopped over the years. It wasn't simply Romney changing his mind. I also think he comes across as a smug businessman. People don't like the guy.

And Pawlenty seems to come off as a Quayle Clone, without seeing how he performs.  His electoral performance is less than stellar. 
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HardRCafé
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« Reply #126 on: August 25, 2008, 06:16:18 pm »

Mitt Romney is not my favorite guy on earth, as everyone knows.  But if you don't think he helps in Michigan, New Hampshire, Nevada, and (a little bit) in Colorado then maybe politics isn't the sport for you.

If Romney helped so much in New Hampshire, wouldn't he have done better in the primary there?
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Keystone Phil
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« Reply #127 on: August 25, 2008, 06:16:59 pm »


Why and where?  Yes, a Mormon hurts in some areas, but those areas will still go for McCain.

The fact that he's flip flopped over the years. It wasn't simply Romney changing his mind. I also think he comes across as a smug businessman. People don't like the guy.

And Pawlenty seems to come off as a Quayle Clone, without seeing how he performs.  His electoral performance is less than stellar. 

This is actually getting painful.

How does he come off as a Quayle clone? What gaffes has Pawlenty had?

His electoral performance is less than stellar. Sorry. We can't all be Tom Ridge. Tim Pawlenty, a man that seemed doomed in 2006, beat back a challenge from a man who was said to be very popular statewide. He was also a Republican running statewide in Minnesota in a terrible year for the GOP. He's done just fine.
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Torie
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« Reply #128 on: August 25, 2008, 06:24:43 pm »

Comparing Pawlenty to Dan Q. is indeed way over the top. Now, on the other hand, comparing Nancy Pelosi  to ... yes, much better that!
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The Duke
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« Reply #129 on: August 25, 2008, 06:27:24 pm »

Mitt Romney is not my favorite guy on earth, as everyone knows.  But if you don't think he helps in Michigan, New Hampshire, Nevada, and (a little bit) in Colorado then maybe politics isn't the sport for you.

If Romney helped so much in New Hampshire, wouldn't he have done better in the primary there?

McCain is a New Hampshire made Republican.  He's never lost an election in New Hampshire.  Romney had a tall order ahead of him against McCain.

And Romney did do well in New Hampshire.  Well enough that I was worried on primary day that he'd beat my guy.

Romney's strength was the area near the border, where he actually beat McCain.  McCain does best upstate and Romney does best in the south, the part of the state in the Boston media market where many people commute to Massachusetts to work everyday.

Combne McCain's strength in the north with Romney's strength in the south and the Republicans will probably win New Hampshire.
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J. J.
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« Reply #130 on: August 25, 2008, 06:38:53 pm »

Comparing Pawlenty to Dan Q. is indeed way over the top. Now, on the other hand, comparing Nancy Pelosi  to ... yes, much better that!

Oh, I'm not; I don't know enough about him to form an opinion, but he has come off that way.  Someone young and inexperienced.
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« Reply #131 on: August 25, 2008, 08:03:33 pm »

Hey, if Wisconsin returns to normalcy as a skin tight state, do not forget that the La Crosse area of Wisconsin is in the Twin Cities media market. Breaking news - Pawlenty might carry the cheese heads for McCain!  Tongue

What state lies to the south of Wisconsin?
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Nym90
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« Reply #132 on: August 25, 2008, 08:07:26 pm »

Hey, if Wisconsin returns to normalcy as a skin tight state, do not forget that the La Crosse area of Wisconsin is in the Twin Cities media market. Breaking news - Pawlenty might carry the cheese heads for McCain!  Tongue

What state lies to the south of Wisconsin?

Eau Claire/La Crosse has its own media market. It is not part of the Minneapolis media market. Some counties in Wisconsin are, but not that many.
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BRTD
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« Reply #133 on: August 25, 2008, 08:10:19 pm »

Hey, if Wisconsin returns to normalcy as a skin tight state, do not forget that the La Crosse area of Wisconsin is in the Twin Cities media market. Breaking news - Pawlenty might carry the cheese heads for McCain!  Tongue

What state lies to the south of Wisconsin?

Eau Claire/La Crosse has its own media market. It is not part of the Minneapolis media market. Some counties in Wisconsin are, but not that many.

That too obviously. Of course I don't think Torie's comment was all that serious.
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J. J.
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« Reply #134 on: August 25, 2008, 08:28:44 pm »


How does he come off as a Quayle clone? What gaffes has Pawlenty had?


What gaffs did Quayle make pre convention in 1988?

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His electoral performance is less than stellar. Sorry. We can't all be Tom Ridge.

Ridge can be Tom Ridge.  In 1998, a bad year, though not 2006, Ridge, with a pro-life candidate taking 10% of the vote, received 57% of the vote.

PA has 21 EV's.  MN, which Pawlenty won't swing anyhow, has 10 EV's.  OH has 20 EV's and Ridge helps more there than Pawlenty does.

It's Ridge, a hold of 41 EV, potentially, versus Pawlenty, with zero.  Which number is greater?

 

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Keystone Phil
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« Reply #135 on: August 25, 2008, 08:32:25 pm »


What gaffs did Quayle make pre convention in 1988?

So how can we know that Pawlenty is Quayle-like? What the hell are you basing this off of?

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Ridge can be Tom Ridge.  In 1998, a bad year, though not 2006, Ridge, with a pro-life candidate taking 10% of the vote, received 57% of the vote.

Good for him. It wasn't as bad of a year and it was in a less Democratic state.

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PA has 21 EV's.  MN, which Pawlenty won't swing anyhow, has 10 EV's.  OH has 20 EV's and Ridge helps more there than Pawlenty does.

And Ridge isn't winning PA for McCain. McCain will win it for himself.

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It's Ridge, a hold of 41 EV, potentially, versus Pawlenty, with zero.  Which number is greater?

Roll Eyes
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Torie
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« Reply #136 on: August 25, 2008, 08:34:39 pm »

Hey, if Wisconsin returns to normalcy as a skin tight state, do not forget that the La Crosse area of Wisconsin is in the Twin Cities media market. Breaking news - Pawlenty might carry the cheese heads for McCain!  Tongue

What state lies to the south of Wisconsin?

Eau Claire/La Crosse has its own media market. It is not part of the Minneapolis media market. Some counties in Wisconsin are, but not that many.

Damn. I thought La Crosse was across the river from Stillwater, but that turns out to be errant. Even Eau Claire does not get Twin City TV eh? Yes, my comment was jive. Who knew?  BRTD of course! Don't sell BRTD short. Tongue
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J. J.
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« Reply #137 on: August 25, 2008, 09:25:59 pm »


What gaffs did Quayle make pre convention in 1988?

So how can we know that Pawlenty is Quayle-like? What the hell are you basing this off of?

No, it has already been raised here, referring him Quaylenty.  It's the impression.

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Ridge can be Tom Ridge.  In 1998, a bad year, though not 2006, Ridge, with a pro-life candidate taking 10% of the vote, received 57% of the vote.

Good for him. It wasn't as bad of a year and it was in a less Democratic state.
[/quote]

Sorry that he couldn't run for a third term, but Pawlenty, in either race, wasn't stellar.  Did he ever get a majority?

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PA has 21 EV's.  MN, which Pawlenty won't swing anyhow, has 10 EV's.  OH has 20 EV's and Ridge helps more there than Pawlenty does.

And Ridge isn't winning PA for McCain. McCain will win it for himself.

It can make a difference.  Ridge on the ticket can be enough to swing the state, in this race.  As columnist Mark Shields said about a week after election day in 2000, "I have two words for George [W.] Bush:  Tom Ridge."  It almost made the difference then and it can this year.

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It's Ridge, a hold of 41 EV, potentially, versus Pawlenty, with zero.  Which number is greater?

Roll Eyes


Since you can't seem to comprehend, I'll explain it.  41 Electoral Votes is a larger number than zero Electoral Votes.  The goal of the election is to get the larger number of Electoral Votes.

Now, I'll ask you these questions:

1.  Who would rather have as VP, Tom Ridge or Joe Biden?  You can only choose one of those.

2.  Who would rather have as VP, Mitt Romney or Joe Biden?  You can only choose one of those.

That might very well be the choice you are facing.
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Keystone Phil
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« Reply #138 on: August 25, 2008, 09:33:24 pm »



No, it has already been raised here, referring him Quaylenty.  It's the impression.

And when people realize that that is based off of nothing, we'll see what happens.

Quote


Sorry that he couldn't run for a third term, but Pawlenty, in either race, wasn't stellar.  Did he ever get a majority?

44% in 2002 and 47% in 2006. I couldn't tell you the last time anyone received a majority in a Gubernatorial race in MN.

Quote


Since you can't seem to comprehend, I'll explain it.  41 Electoral Votes is a larger number than zero Electoral Votes.  The goal of the election is to get the larger number of Electoral Votes.

I'm rolling my eyes because of the assinine suggestion that Ridge is helping us win 20 of those 41 electoral votes.

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1.  Who would rather have as VP, Tom Ridge or Joe Biden?  You can only choose one of those.

Oh, these will be fun! Tom Ridge!

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2.  Who would rather have as VP, Mitt Romney or Joe Biden?  You can only choose one of those.

I refuse to say his name.

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That might very well be the choice you are facing.

Oh, wow! Dramatic!

Now here's my question - Who would you rather have as VP - Pawlenty or Biden? You can only choose one of those!
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Mr. Morden
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« Reply #139 on: August 25, 2008, 09:44:59 pm »

Sorry but Romney clearly hurts more than he helps. How that is not clear to you is beyond me.

Why and where?  Yes, a Mormon hurts in some areas, but those areas will still go for McCain.

Lol.  How is this even a question?  Have I wandered into an alternate universe in which Romney is popular?  Read the discussion in this thread:

https://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=81427.0

We just got through a primary race in which he largely appealed to rich people, Mormons, and conservatives who latched onto the only viable alternative to McCain they had available.  (Almost all of those people are going to vote for McCain in the GE anyway.)  Romney was consistently getting massacred in head-to-head polls against Clinton and Obama by double digits.  The guy is unpopular with swing voters.  The main media meme about him is that he's an inauthentic flip-flopper.  I don't see that changing anytime soon.
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12th Doctor
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« Reply #140 on: August 25, 2008, 09:50:02 pm »

Romney is not my ideal choice.  But between Romney, Pawlenty, Ridge, and Lieberman, I am going with Romney

Ridge is not palatable enough for conservatives and he leaves us open to attacks so therefore... we should go with Romney?  I don't follow your logic.  And while there might not be polls that show that Ridge would boost the ticket, there are defiantly ones that show that Romney would kill it.

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I have said I don't think Pawlenty helps the ticket and don't think he's an adequate heir apparent.  I don't feel the need to repeat why.

I think Ridge is a better choice politically than Pawlenty, but is an even worse heir apparent than Pawlenty.

Why, because Ridge voted against funding a murderous terrorist organization that Reagan himself didn't want to support, and because he favored a freeze on the number of times would kill end humanity with nuclear weapons?  As for his time as SHS, I don't know why people think he failed.  He led the most massive beaurocratic shift in the history of the United States, and he did it while fighting an active modern war.  There was never a successful attack while he was there, inspite of at least a half dozen attempts that we know of.  People laughed about duct tape, but that's the exact procedure recommended by DuPont (a Delaware based company, if Biden really want to go after Ridge) and the terror alert is the same system used by Israel.  The guy was as good as any, and better than most.

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Please, someone make the case that either of these guys can actually be President.  I didn't think so.  Once you realize doing the job of President has nothing to do with what state you're from, these guys both look less appealing.

In Ridge's case I totally reject that, but I don't suppose I can convince you, so okay.


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Mitt Romney is not my favorite guy on earth, as everyone knows.  But if you don't think he helps in Michigan, New Hampshire, Nevada, and (a little bit) in Colorado then maybe politics isn't the sport for you.  Is he the ideal heir apparent?  No, he is not.  But he is the smartest guy in the party on domestic policy issues and was actually a good Governor of Massachusetts.  As to who wold make the best President between Romney and Pawlenty and Ridge, the answer has to be Mitt Romney.

Romney doesn't help enough in Michigan to carry it... not by a long shot.  He might know people there, but they are the wrong crowd to appeal to.  The people Ridge knows in PA and Ohio are grassroots types, who are real Reagan Democrats, Hillary voters, and would be enticed to come out of us if Ridge is on the ticket.  The only way we don't win PA with ridge is if McCain himself proves to be too unpalatable for voters here... and if Ridge is a move to the center, then good.  McCain has swung so far to the right now to risk being unpalatable to the country as a whole.  We need to play to the middle.  As go those other states... if we absolutely need Colorado, Nevada and New Hampshire to win, then this thing is already over.  That's barely a third as many EV's as Ridge assists us with.

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That said, the best choice available is Sarah Palin.

Enter Phil: But she's even less experienced than Pawlenty.  We'd throw away our best argument!

No, Phil.  We wouldn't.  Experience is not our best argument.  It will do us as much good as it did Hillary.  Obama's weakness isn't that he's inexperienced, its that he isn't ready for the job.  Readiness has very little to do with how many years you've been in elective office.

This is a huge difference between Pawlenty and Palin: Pawlenty comes off as not ready, Palin comes off as ready.

So what is our best argument if not experience?  Drilling is our best argument.  McCain's comeback started in large part because he won the energy issue.  You want a VP that reminds everyone that Democrats are responsible for $4 gas, pick Sarah Palin.

A little identity politics won't hurt, either.

I agree that experienced and ready aren't the same thing, but time spent actually in office doesn't hurt, not by a long shot.

Palin is one o fthose choices that looks good on paper, but I don't think she gets us a whole lot... women will still likely go more for Obama, and feminists will not support Palin.  We don't need to bring in Alaska.  And, with all due respect (and I really mean that) her family situation makes it difficult to justify the long hours.  I would rank her as maybe #3 out of the top 10 serious choices, but I still think Ridge puts us at more an advantage.
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12th Doctor
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« Reply #141 on: August 25, 2008, 09:54:10 pm »



And Ridge isn't winning PA for McCain. McCain will win it for himself.



Again, put Ridge on the ticket, and we only lose PA if McCain loses it for us.  Even if McCain wins PA on his own, he will have to expend alot more effort to do it, then he would if Ridge were on the ticket.  Of course having Ridge on there does automatically win the state, but it puts it into our column with a lot less effort and resources, which we can then use elsewhere.
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J. J.
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« Reply #142 on: August 25, 2008, 09:57:58 pm »



Now here's my question - Who would you rather have as VP - Pawlenty or Biden? You can only choose one of those!

I'd rather have Pawlenty (or Quayle), but if my choice is Pawlenty, I might get stuck with Biden.

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I'm rolling my eyes because of the assinine suggestion that Ridge is helping us win 20 of those 41 electoral votes.


Then you don't understand the Pittsburgh and Erie media markets.

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Keystone Phil
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« Reply #143 on: August 25, 2008, 10:00:11 pm »


I'd rather have Pawlenty (or Quayle), but if my choice is Pawlenty, I might get stuck with Biden.

Roll Eyes

And I might get stuck with Biden if we nominate Romney.

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Then you don't understand the Pittsburgh and Erie media markets

Yep. After all, Ridge's hard work in 2000 delivered PA for Bush because of those media markets.
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J. J.
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« Reply #144 on: August 25, 2008, 10:09:31 pm »


I'd rather have Pawlenty (or Quayle), but if my choice is Pawlenty, I might get stuck with Biden.

Roll Eyes

And I might get stuck with Biden if we nominate Romney.

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The odds are a lot lower with Romney than with Pawlenty.

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Yep. After all, Ridge's hard work in 2000 delivered PA for Bush because of those media markets.

He wasn't on the ticket, unfortunately.

His CD bordered OH, and then he was governor; he's been in the eastern quarter of OH for the last quarter decade.
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« Reply #145 on: August 25, 2008, 10:12:20 pm »



Now here's my question - Who would you rather have as VP - Pawlenty or Biden? You can only choose one of those!

I'd rather have Pawlenty (or Quayle), but if my choice is Pawlenty, I might get stuck with Biden.

Quote

I'm rolling my eyes because of the assinine suggestion that Ridge is helping us win 20 of those 41 electoral votes.


Then you don't understand the Pittsburgh and Erie media markets.



And for the 100th time, he also doesn't understand the regional interests and connections that tom ridge has.
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Keystone Phil
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« Reply #146 on: August 25, 2008, 10:16:10 pm »



The odds are a lot lower with Romney than with Pawlenty.

Are you crazy?

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He wasn't on the ticket, unfortunately.

Doesn't mean he didn't work for it. Bush lost by four points, by the way.

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His CD bordered OH, and then he was governor; he's been in the eastern quarter of OH for the last quarter decade.

Roll Eyes
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TomC
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« Reply #147 on: August 25, 2008, 10:17:34 pm »

Romney's Mormonism is the least of his baggage.
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The Duke
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« Reply #148 on: August 25, 2008, 10:20:05 pm »

Ridge is not palatable enough for conservatives and he leaves us open to attacks so therefore... we should go with Romney?  I don't follow your logic.  And while there might not be polls that show that Ridge would boost the ticket, there are defiantly ones that show that Romney would kill it.

The last poll I saw showed McCain Romney within the margin of error and McCain-Ridge getting blown out.

http://www.zogby.com/news/ReadNews.dbm?ID=1546

Yeah, its a Zogby poll, but we don't have any ohter useful data.

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I think Ridge is a better choice politically than Pawlenty, but is an even worse heir apparent than Pawlenty.

Why, because Ridge voted against funding a murderous terrorist organization... ?

You're starting to lose it.

As for his time as SHS...

You've defended his time at DHS before.  I don't buy it.  He was a disaster.  You're defending duct tape and plastic sheeting?  Who cares what state DuPont is located in?

Even if he wasn't a disaster, he was in Bush's cabinet.  That is toxic.  You're arguing that we need to pick Ridge to move to the middle, then you ignore the fact that he was one of the most recognizable members of the administration McCain has to take great pains to run away from.


Romney doesn't help enough in Michigan to carry it... not by a long shot.  He might know people there, but they are the wrong crowd to appeal to.  The people Ridge knows in PA and Ohio are grassroots types, who are real Reagan Democrats, Hillary voters, and would be enticed to come out of us if Ridge is on the ticket.  The only way we don't win PA with ridge is if McCain himself proves to be too unpalatable for voters here... and if Ridge is a move to the center, then good.  McCain has swung so far to the right now to risk being unpalatable to the country as a whole.  We need to play to the middle.  As go those other states... if we absolutely need Colorado, Nevada and New Hampshire to win, then this thing is already over.  That's barely a third as many EV's as Ridge assists us with.

"Wrong crowd to appeal to", I don't even know what that means.

And the Romney name won Michigan in the primaries, so...

And you can write off New Hampshire, Nevada, and Colorado if you want but take any of those states from Bush in 2000 then Gore is President.

Palin is one o fthose choices that looks good on paper, but I don't think she gets us a whole lot... women will still likely go more for Obama, and feminists will not support Palin.  We don't need to bring in Alaska.  And, with all due respect (and I really mean that) her family situation makes it difficult to justify the long hours.  I would rank her as maybe #3 out of the top 10 serious choices, but I still think Ridge puts us at more an advantage.

No one is talking about dedicated feminists.  Suburban women, though, will like Palin.

Long hours as VP?  Does VP include duties I don't know about?  She's Governor of a state, I have to presume she's up to breaking ties in the Senate and greeting the girl scout who sold the most cookies.

If you mean the campaign hours, its a 60 day sprint.  She'll be fine with that.
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J. J.
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« Reply #149 on: August 25, 2008, 10:20:57 pm »


And for the 100th time, he also doesn't understand the regional interests and connections that tom ridge has.

Judging from this quote, Phil doesn't understand geography either.




Quote
His CD bordered OH, and then he was governor; he's been in the eastern quarter of OH for the last quarter decade.

Roll Eyes

Just due to proximity, he's been on TV in the eastern quarter of OH for 25 years.
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