I may find out if Pawlenty is the running mate today...

[Keystone Phil]

Ridge has a way better background and personal narrative and he comes off stronger.

You basically argued that Ridge had a bigger jockstrap in high school. Who cares?


 

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You did mean nuclear bomb. You said it would be "the most devastating ad of the campaign."

How is God's name can the connection of Cheney asking Pawlenty to run for Governor instead of Senator be more of a chain to the Bush administration than a man who served in that administration?

These arguments aren't even making sense. I can respect a different opinion on the matter but saying that Ridge isn't as connected to the administration as Pawlenty is is outrageous.

[Keystone Phil]

And the reason I brought up Ron Paul as a superior choice, is because, at least if we got him we would get the money and the fan club.

I am done taking this seriously. Completely finished. 

[Keystone Phil]

1) Yes Phil, I said he had a bigger jock strap... nevermind Vietnam (which Ridge didn't have to go to), or working his way through Harvard (as a construction worker, because his parents couldn't afford it... Ridge got in on grades alone), or any of that other stuff... you saw the one thing that kinda offended you, and clung to it.

That's great and all. Really it is.

Oh, the athletic thing didn't "offend" me. It was just completely assinine to mention it. Totally irrelevant.

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But...he was still in the administration. You can make it sound as nice as you'd like, Super, but he was a member of the Bush administration and people will always see it that way. So, please, don't try to make him see less connected than Pawlenty.

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Dude, you are absolutely clueless if you think that one thing connects anyone to the administration moreso than someone who actually served in the damn administration.

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Yeah, I see how they differ. Person A served in the administration and people will always know that. The Obama campaign will make sure that that is mentioned just as much as they say "Bush-McCain." Person B has a loose connection based on a campaign that never happened because of a political suggestion from Cheney. Most people won't get the connection or won't care. It'll be little more than a talking point; far from a "devastating" blow in a campaign ad.

I understand the differences quite well. You clearly don't.

And the reason I brought up Ron Paul as a superior choice, is because, at least if we got him we would get the money and the fan club.

I am done taking this seriously. Completely finished. 

You have yet to answer my question as to what Pawlenty actually brings in.  All you have done was say he a nice guy and question Ridge.

Are you blind? Seriously. Are you blind? I want that answered because I clearly answered your question several times:

I've stated this several times now: He's young and he satisfies the base. He is the choice that avoids problems.

Now answer this question: Was that not clearly posted earlier? Don't tell me I have yet to say something when I've been repeating it for you.

I asked to be convinced, Phil, and all you said was "He won Minnesota during a really bad year"... as I recall, the main reason was because the Democrats couldn't muster a reason not to reelect him.  That's good, but I need a better reason than that, and I'm not finding one.  I asked for one, but all I got was opinions as to why Ridge would be bad, and comparisons for why Pawlenty would not be worse.  *shrug*

Yeah, apparently winning in a Democratic state in a terrible year for any Republican isn't good enough for some of us. 

Couldn't muster a reason not to re-elect him? I stated several times that his challenger was a guy that they hyped up big time. He was a guy that led Pawlenty several times during the campaign. Pawlenty looked like a goner. Then he re-took the lead.

And guess what? With a running mate, it's ok that I offered you reasons why Ridge would be bad but Pawlenty wouldn't be worse. That's what we have to aim for. When we decide to base political strategy around who has a more fanatical fan base at the Erie supermarkets, I'll give you a call.

[Keystone Phil]

Let's be honest about why people say Pawlenty is going to satisfy the base.  What people actually mean is that he will satisfy the evangelicals because he is one.  Pawlenty is not a conservative, he is only seen as a conservative because he is an evangelical married to another evangelical.

Pawlenty does nothng for the small government folks because Pawlenty with his "Sam's Club not the country club" nonsense is in favor of Bush-style compassionate consertvatism.

In other words, he's for big gvoernment.

Aside from his support for the smoking ban, I've yet to see "big government" from Pawlenty. Either way, he satisfies the people we can't afford to piss off.

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John, with all due respect, you are in no position to call the man "stone cold stupid." What do you have that suggests that the guy is stupid? Seriously. Ok, you think he sounds stupid because of the way he speaks. He sounded fine to me. He's just a soft spoken guy. Start comparing him to Quayle when he's saying something stupid.

  

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Some people are really blowing this out of proportion. Give me a call when he starts saying really crazy stuff like Quayle. You have absolutely no case for him costing us tons of votes based on his speaking.

[Keystone Phil]

Okay, I just said he wasn't going to be a Quayle-level disaster.  Did you read the post or simply assume your usual Pawlenty apologist position?

But you did call him "stone cold stupid" so...

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I think plenty of conservatives supported this in Congress as well.

I'm not looking for a debate on whether or not he's a "true" conservative. He appeals to the people that need to stay satisfied.

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Well, yes, that's a problem. I totally agree with you there.

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We weren't discussing what appeals to you though.    You're a McCain fan anyway.

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Well, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree since I think he has an appealing style and enough substance.

[Keystone Phil]

He didn't tell you? I'm shocked.

...

He actually whispered it to me and then gave me a wink. I promised not to tell anyone though.

[Keystone Phil]

He didn't tell you? I'm shocked.

...

He actually whispered it to me and then gave me a wink. I promised not to tell anyone though.

Gave you a wink, eh? Did he give you a suggestive pat on the backside as well?

(The answer had better be yes, or I'm going to be forever disappointed.)

There were people around, Everett. He couldn't. We all know he wanted to.... 

[Keystone Phil]

But huge-uber-Catholic organization will skip into action if you put Pawlenty on the ticket...

Yeah, ok.  

And they'll be enthusiastic about a Pro Choice Catholic? Remember when Kerry won the Catholic vote in...oh...nevermind.

Pawlenty is a worse choice than Biden by a long shot, unless you expect MN to go Republican.

Lest we forget:

No one is arguing that he's flipping MN, J.J.

[Keystone Phil]

For the 80th time, Ridge could just barely be described as pro-choice.  He is opposed to abortion personally, and legally he actually restricted it as governor, and could make a very credible case for being anti-Roe... which is where the real battle is.

I understand that his view is complex but when he's asked, "Mr. Ridge, do you consider yourself Pro Life or Pro Choice?" how will he answer? If he says "Pro Choice," then it's a problem. If he gives a complex answer, we're even more screwed.

And the little ladies you do Rosary and Alter, and vote 100% of the time will care, once groups like Catholic Answers put that information out there.  Will it be a tidal wave, no, but it could hurt us with a group we need to get.

And they'll also care about Ridge being Pro Choice.

Those people are voting for McCain anyway.

[Keystone Phil]

Ah, then what good is he?  He carries the archconservatives and delivers them to McCain? 

What is with this sudden idea that a running mate who doesn't carry his/her home state is meaningless?

Pawlenty does no harm. He satisfies a group of people that are very important to this party.

[Keystone Phil]

Ah, then what good is he?  He carries the archconservatives and delivers them to McCain? 

What is with this sudden idea that a running mate who doesn't carry his/her home state is meaningless?

Pawlenty does no harm. He satisfies a group of people that are very important to this party.

He does no good.  There are candidates out there that will.

Whatever. It's not even worth arguing anymore.

[Keystone Phil]

Ah, then what good is he?  He carries the archconservatives and delivers them to McCain? 

What is with this sudden idea that a running mate who doesn't carry his/her home state is meaningless?

Pawlenty does no harm. He satisfies a group of people that are very important to this party.

He does no good.  There are candidates out there that will.

Whatever. It's not even worth arguing anymore.

I think it is.

I'm not a big fan of Mitt Romney, to the point that in a head to head race, I'd vote for Hillary.  Romney is those candidates for VP that will help.  I'd like a few other people out there, but they won't help; I frankly don't know Pawlenty enough to like him or not, but I know he is one of those that won't help.  So, if it's a choice between Pawlenty and Romney, I say choose Romney.  Ridge helps even more.

Sorry but Romney clearly hurts more than he helps. How that is not clear to you is beyond me.

[Keystone Phil]

Why and where?  Yes, a Mormon hurts in some areas, but those areas will still go for McCain.

The fact that he's flip flopped over the years. It wasn't simply Romney changing his mind. I also think he comes across as a smug businessman. People don't like the guy.

[Keystone Phil]

Enter Phil: But she's even less experienced than Pawlenty.  We'd throw away our best argument!

No, Phil.  We wouldn't.  Experience is not our best argument.  It will do us as much good as it did Hillary.  Obama's weakness isn't that he's inexperienced, its that he isn't ready for the job.  Readiness has very little to do with how many years you've been in elective office.

Others have made that argument just as much as I did but uh...

What's our argument with Palin? I like her and all but what does she have? She's a woman Governor. Ok?

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Whatever.

[Keystone Phil]

Why and where?  Yes, a Mormon hurts in some areas, but those areas will still go for McCain.

The fact that he's flip flopped over the years. It wasn't simply Romney changing his mind. I also think he comes across as a smug businessman. People don't like the guy.

And Pawlenty seems to come off as a Quayle Clone, without seeing how he performs.  His electoral performance is less than stellar. 

This is actually getting painful.

How does he come off as a Quayle clone? What gaffes has Pawlenty had?

His electoral performance is less than stellar. Sorry. We can't all be Tom Ridge. Tim Pawlenty, a man that seemed doomed in 2006, beat back a challenge from a man who was said to be very popular statewide. He was also a Republican running statewide in Minnesota in a terrible year for the GOP. He's done just fine.

[Keystone Phil]

What gaffs did Quayle make pre convention in 1988?

So how can we know that Pawlenty is Quayle-like? What the hell are you basing this off of?

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Good for him. It wasn't as bad of a year and it was in a less Democratic state.

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And Ridge isn't winning PA for McCain. McCain will win it for himself.

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[Keystone Phil]

No, it has already been raised here, referring him Quaylenty.  It's the impression.

And when people realize that that is based off of nothing, we'll see what happens.

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44% in 2002 and 47% in 2006. I couldn't tell you the last time anyone received a majority in a Gubernatorial race in MN.

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I'm rolling my eyes because of the assinine suggestion that Ridge is helping us win 20 of those 41 electoral votes.

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Oh, these will be fun! Tom Ridge!

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I refuse to say his name.

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Oh, wow! Dramatic!

Now here's my question - Who would you rather have as VP - Pawlenty or Biden? You can only choose one of those!

[Keystone Phil]

I'd rather have Pawlenty (or Quayle), but if my choice is Pawlenty, I might get stuck with Biden.

And I might get stuck with Biden if we nominate Romney.

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Yep. After all, Ridge's hard work in 2000 delivered PA for Bush because of those media markets.

[Keystone Phil]

The odds are a lot lower with Romney than with Pawlenty.

Are you crazy?

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Doesn't mean he didn't work for it. Bush lost by four points, by the way.

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[Keystone Phil]

Judging from this quote, Phil doesn't understand geography either.

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And?

[Keystone Phil]

Ridge is the kinda guy who shows up at a local campaign HQ in 2006, when there is nothing in it for him, just to talk to people, say hi, and let everyone know what a great job they are doing.  sadly he was leaving when I popped back in, but he stayed for two hours.  That kinda thing means alot to people, and only someone who is really in touch with people would bother to do something like that.

So very, very beautiful.

[Keystone Phil]

So my friend's picture with Pawlenty made the local paper but most importantly...

There is a picture of Pawlenty with our state Attorney General, our city party chairman and the city party's general counsel. My right leg and shoulder snuck into the picture!




It will be especially awesome if Pawlenty was announced as the pick tomorrow. Making an appearance in the newspaper of an important swing/McCain favored, blue collar, Democratic area of an important swing state is a positive.

[Keystone Phil]

...and Pawlenty whispered gently in my ear, "No, Phil. It's someone more attractive than I."






I did get some good news concerning Pawlenty today. It turns out I did make one of the other local papers. It's a picture of me, my state Attorney General and Pawlenty. The caption calls me a "young Republican."