Wednesday Democratic National Convention running commentary thread

[Sbane]

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Financial statements contradict this statement. I'll try to dig them up now....

Wrong. Sbane was making the argument that Obama was "like us" financially. He brought it up, not me. I'm simply disproving his comments.

He might have been on the upper side of the middle class spectrum, but he is sure as hell middle class. Not John Mccain though. And you and the republicans brought up this elitist charge, not me.

[Sbane]

but it just pisses me off that somehow Obama, a middle class man, is elitist while Mccain is not.

Again, elitism isn't necessarily restricted to one's financial standing.

Sorry but we have to agree to disagree. Someone having a better education than someone else does not make them an elitist.

[Keystone Phil]

but it just pisses me off that somehow Obama, a middle class man, is elitist while Mccain is not.

Again, elitism isn't necessarily restricted to one's financial standing.

Sorry but we have to agree to disagree. Someone having a better education than someone else does not make them an elitist.

Someone having an arrogant, "more informed" attitude can make them an elitist.

[Sbane]

but it just pisses me off that somehow Obama, a middle class man, is elitist while Mccain is not.

Again, elitism isn't necessarily restricted to one's financial standing.

Sorry but we have to agree to disagree. Someone having a better education than someone else does not make them an elitist.

Someone having an arrogant, "more informed" attitude can make them an elitist.

And what if they are more informed? Of course I am not big fan of attitudes either. Everyone is equal regardless of how much knowledge you have.

[Flying Dog]

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Financial statements contradict this statement. I'll try to dig them up now....

Wrong. Sbane was making the argument that Obama was "like us" financially. He brought it up, not me. I'm simply disproving his comments.

Well, according to numerous statements, Obama was still paying off his college loans(more than their mortgage) until the release and re-release of his books. So, the statement that the Obama's were worried about sending their daughters to college was plausible up until his election to the U.S. Senate.

[J. J.]

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To you, personally, maybe. Your impressions of a person aren't necessarily what everybody else's are, or even what most people's impressions and views are.

Assumptions like that are dangerous, J.J.. Be careful, with views like that, you may be branded as arrogant... perhaps even elitist.

I am elitist, by many definitions.  I learned, politically, to play those aspects down.  Obama hasn't.

I'm also not running for POTUS.

[JSojourner]

but it just pisses me off that somehow Obama, a middle class man, is elitist while Mccain is not.

Again, elitism isn't necessarily restricted to one's financial standing.

Sorry but we have to agree to disagree. Someone having a better education than someone else does not make them an elitist.

Someone having an arrogant, "more informed" attitude can make them an elitist.

This reminds me of my Mom.  She could always "tell" which politicians were arrogant because they had what she called a "sneer" or a "smirk".  While others struck her as sincere and humble.  I still ask her for her assessment of these various pols because...well...I find her insights so very predictable.  For example...

Mondale had an arrogant sneer.
Reagan had a winsome smile and confident demeanor.

Dukakis had a cold, New England elitism about him.
H.W. Bush had more of a down to earth humility.

Clinton had a stuck-up, "I am untouchable" smirk.
Dole had a deep warmth and sincerity.

Gore had an Ivy League egghead arrogance.
The Decider just radiated the love of Jesus.

Kerry had a spoiled, rich-boy haughtiness.
The Decider had a determined look of leadership.

Obama has the look of (quote) "the typical black, with a chip on his shoulder who thinks the world owes him everything.
McCain has the look of humble patriotism and compassion.

Now, I completely realize that for every Republican mother like mine...I am sure there is a corresponding Democratic Mamma just reversing the table.  

But that's just it.  This business of saying, "he looks arrogant" or "she acts elitist" is really the business of old women with nothing better to think about than what their favorite radio host told them.

[Keystone Phil]

but it just pisses me off that somehow Obama, a middle class man, is elitist while Mccain is not.

Again, elitism isn't necessarily restricted to one's financial standing.

Sorry but we have to agree to disagree. Someone having a better education than someone else does not make them an elitist.

Someone having an arrogant, "more informed" attitude can make them an elitist.

And what if they are more informed? Of course I am not big fan of attitudes either. Everyone is equal regardless of how much knowledge you have.

Being more informed is fine but I detect that Obama believes that some of us are still a little "backward." And, to be truthful, some people are still backwards but some of the Obama statements are too broad.

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Financial statements contradict this statement. I'll try to dig them up now....

Wrong. Sbane was making the argument that Obama was "like us" financially. He brought it up, not me. I'm simply disproving his comments.

Well, according to numerous statements, Obama was still paying off his college loans(more than their mortgage) until the release and re-release of his books. So, the statement that the Obama's were worried about sending their daughters to college was plausible up until his election to the U.S. Senate.

He would have been fine with the salary of an Illinois State Senator (one of the highest paid legislatures in the country) and lawyer.

[Flying Dog]

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To you, personally, maybe. Your impressions of a person aren't necessarily what everybody else's are, or even what most people's impressions and views are.

Assumptions like that are dangerous, J.J.. Be careful, with views like that, you may be branded as arrogant... perhaps even elitist.

I am elitist, by many definitions.  I learned, politically, to play those aspects down.  Obama hasn't.

I'm also not running for POTUS.

Well, in the manner of... well... you, I'll say that Obama has laid the impression that he has learned to play the elitist charge down. That's my impression, so it must be America's impression.

Yes, I am mocking you.

[2952-0-0]

Anyone else think that Joe Biden looked like a game show host?

[J. J.]

This reminds me of my Mom.  She could always "tell" which politicians were arrogant because they had what she called a "sneer" or a "smirk".  While others struck her as sincere and humble.  I still ask her for her assessment of these various pols because...well...I find her insights so very predictable.  

I know someone who wouldn't vote for GHWB because he had "beady eyes."

This is not about what Obama looks like, but it is about the perception.  He's opened himself up for the charges, whether or not they are true.  Some of it has been his own fault that perception has occurred; Biden, unfortunately, added to that tonight.

[Flying Dog]

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That's not a lot, really.



So, Obama's kids were born during this time period (Michelle was working for a Hospital and got paid less than $75,000) the statement that they were worried isn't a lie.

[Flying Dog]

This reminds me of my Mom.  She could always "tell" which politicians were arrogant because they had what she called a "sneer" or a "smirk".  While others struck her as sincere and humble.  I still ask her for her assessment of these various pols because...well...I find her insights so very predictable. 

I know someone who wouldn't vote for GHWB because he had "beady eyes."

This is not about what Obama looks like, but it is about the perception.  He's opened himself up for the charges, whether or not they are true.  Some of it has been his own fault that perception has occurred; Biden, unfortunately, added to that tonight.

There ya go again.

[Sbane]

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That's not a lot, really.



So, Obama's kids were born during this time period (Michelle was working for a Hospital and got paid less than $75,000) the statement that they were worried isn't a lie.

That's interesting. I would think they at least made close to $200,000 together but that was not the case. I am not sure how the cost of living is in Chicago but with that kind of family income, in the bay area they would be in the middle of the middle class.

[Keystone Phil]

That's not a lot, really.

He was also a lawyer (regardless of the fact that he neglected it for one year) and so was his wife. And $58,000 is a pretty penny.

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Actually, you can't tell me if that statement is or isn't really a lie. No one can. However, I find it hard to believe that a family making that much money really worried about the children's college education.

[Sbane]

That's not a lot, really.

He was also a lawyer (regardless of the fact that he neglected it for one year) and so was his wife. And $58,000 is a pretty penny.

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Actually, you can't tell me if that statement is or isn't really a lie. No one can. However, I find it hard to believe that a family making that much money really worried about the children's college education.

Really? My parents have to pay $40,000 every year to send me and my sister to college. If they only made about $100,000 a year I am not sure how it would happen. Of course maybe I would have gotten more loans and what not but a family income of $100,000 doesn't get you a lot in America anymore.

[JSojourner]

This reminds me of my Mom.  She could always "tell" which politicians were arrogant because they had what she called a "sneer" or a "smirk".  While others struck her as sincere and humble.  I still ask her for her assessment of these various pols because...well...I find her insights so very predictable.  

I know someone who wouldn't vote for GHWB because he had "beady eyes."

This is not about what Obama looks like, but it is about the perception.  He's opened himself up for the charges, whether or not they are true.  Some of it has been his own fault that perception has occurred; Biden, unfortunately, added to that tonight.

I completely, totally see how Obama opened himself up to the charges based on his "clinging to guns and religion" comment.  Absolutely.

I am failing to see anything in, about or from Biden that gives that impression.  But I freely admit, I'm a pretty partisan hack.  

[Keystone Phil]

That's not a lot, really.

He was also a lawyer (regardless of the fact that he neglected it for one year) and so was his wife. And $58,000 is a pretty penny.

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Actually, you can't tell me if that statement is or isn't really a lie. No one can. However, I find it hard to believe that a family making that much money really worried about the children's college education.

Really? My parents have to pay $40,000 every year to send me and my sister to college. If they only made about $100,000 a year I am not sure how it would happen. Of course maybe I would have gotten more loans and what not but a family income of $100,000 doesn't get you a lot in America anymore.

Except Michelle and Barack made more than $100,000. I don't know what amount "less than $75,000" equals though.

[Flying Dog]

That's not a lot, really.

He was also a lawyer (regardless of the fact that he neglected it for one year) and so was his wife. And $58,000 is a pretty penny.

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Actually, you can't tell me if that statement is or isn't really a lie. No one can. However, I find it hard to believe that a family making that much money really worried about the children's college education.

It seems you disregard the fact that he was in debt, still paying off loans, while living in Chicago, not the cheapest town in some parts. $58,000 isn't a lot considering all that, really. It's relatively reasonable to contemplate their worries, actually.

[Keystone Phil]

That's not a lot, really.

He was also a lawyer (regardless of the fact that he neglected it for one year) and so was his wife. And $58,000 is a pretty penny.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Actually, you can't tell me if that statement is or isn't really a lie. No one can. However, I find it hard to believe that a family making that much money really worried about the children's college education.

It seems you disregard the fact that he was in debt, still paying off loans, while living in Chicago, not the cheapest town in some parts. $58,000 isn't a lot considering all that, really. It's relatively reasonable to contemplate their worries, actually.

Barack Obama wasn't living in a luxorious area.

[Sbane]

That's not a lot, really.

He was also a lawyer (regardless of the fact that he neglected it for one year) and so was his wife. And $58,000 is a pretty penny.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Actually, you can't tell me if that statement is or isn't really a lie. No one can. However, I find it hard to believe that a family making that much money really worried about the children's college education.

Really? My parents have to pay $40,000 every year to send me and my sister to college. If they only made about $100,000 a year I am not sure how it would happen. Of course maybe I would have gotten more loans and what not but a family income of $100,000 doesn't get you a lot in America anymore.

Except Michelle and Barack made more than $100,000. I don't know what amount "less than $75,000" equals though.

My point being just 10 years ago Barack and Michelle were squarely middle class. I was under the impression they were earning more but I was wrong.

[Flying Dog]

Well, the article I found stated that Michelle Obama was making about $100,000 in 2004, I think we can all reasonably contemplate that she made less that that by at least a quarter hundred grand, considering she started around that time (00' 01')

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Aren't the Republicans the ones that constantly insist that $100k a year is not rich?

[True Democrat]

So I'm watching the Melissa Etheridge thing for the first time.

She combined about 12 songs and ruined all of them.

She sucks.

[J. J.]

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To you, personally, maybe. Your impressions of a person aren't necessarily what everybody else's are, or even what most people's impressions and views are.

Assumptions like that are dangerous, J.J.. Be careful, with views like that, you may be branded as arrogant... perhaps even elitist.

I am elitist, by many definitions.  I learned, politically, to play those aspects down.  Obama hasn't.

I'm also not running for POTUS.

Well, in the manner of... well... you, I'll say that Obama has laid the impression that he has learned to play the elitist charge down. That's my impression, so it must be America's impression.

Yes, I am mocking you.

No, because I can illustrate it.

Here we have a guy named Barry, who was born in HI.  His mother and father were in college and perused advanced  degrees, successfully.  When there marriage ended, his father returned to his native country where he became a senior governmental official.

His mother finished school and quickly married a geologist, who quickly became an executive with an oil company in Indonesia.  Barry was sent first to private schools for his first three years and then transferred to public schools for 1 year.

Barry asked his mother to go to school in the US; reluctantly she agreed.  He moved to HI to live with his grandmother, a bank vice president.  With some money from his mother and grandmother, he attended the prestigious Punahou School, a prep school.

He had some problem is high school, using a very expensive controlled substance.  He stopped, however.

After high school, he started at Occidental college , but was accepted at the Ivy League Cornell.  Barry graduated, and worked Business International Corporation and then a Public Issues research group.

Up to this point, does this sound a bit like Barry is elitist?