Best Leader of the Soviet Union

[King]

Vladimir Ivashko doesn't count because his only action was to oversee it's dissolution.

And if you select Gorbachev, I'd ask for a reason other than "he listened to Reagan and tore down that wall."  It's not required, but encouraged.

[Associate Justice PiT]

And if you select Gorbachev, I'd ask for a reason other than "he listened to Reagan and tore down that wall."  It's not required, but encouraged.

     Glasnost & Perestroika were nice too.

[Beet]

Obviously Gorbachev, since he democratized the evil empire. Asking for us to exclude that answer is like asking who the best President of the 20th century was and then saying "Well if you select FDR, give a reason other than the New Deal and winning World War II"

But if you're counting raw ability to build the state and increase its power then Stalin.

Thirdly, the one who was able to somewhat humanize the state as well as preside over its heyday, Khruschev. But what he did was easy, more a function of when he came to power and what situation he inherited than his actual achievements. The break with China, Virgin lands campaign and Cuban missile crises were fiascos.

[King]

Obviously Gorbachev, since he democratized the evil empire. Asking for us to exclude that answer is like asking who the best President of the 20th century was and then saying "Well if you select FDR, give a reason other than the New Deal and winning World War II"

Well, I wanted to get some answers in regard of who was the best leader FOR the Soviet Union.  Causing his nation to collapse does not technically qualify as great leadership although it was very good for the Western world.

[Lincoln Republican]

Gorbachev, because he listened to Reagan and tore down that wall.

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

But seriously, in some respects, Lenin has to rate, as he, more than anyone else, was the founder and the driving force behind the actual establishment of the Soviet Union itself, and set the philosophy by which the Soviet Union existed for a generation.

[dead0man]

Well, I wanted to get some answers in regard of who was the best leader FOR the Soviet Union. 

Maybe you should have worded it that way then?  And even then it's not clear.  Are we talking what's best for the PEOPLE of the Soviet Union or what's best for the ENTITY that is the Soviet Union.  If it's for the people, then the answer is clearly Gorbachev.  If it's for the entity, then I don't konw.

Anyway, it certainly couldn't be Stalin, he killed 40 million Soviets.  That wouldn't make him the best FOR the Soviet Union, entity or people.  One would think Lenin would be a good choice, but he was just as big of a monster as was Stalin, he just wasn't as good at it.

I really can't see how it can't be Gorbachev unless you're only criteria for "best" is keeping the Soviet Union afloat.

[Kaine for Senate '18]

Best leader from my perspective: Gorbachev
Best leader from a Soviet perspective: Stalin

I voted Stalin.

[dead0man]

I'm not sure how causing one of the greatest famines in recorded history to happen on your watch AND because of your policies was all that great for the Soviet Union.  Neither were the millions of Soviets he had killed in Gulags (not the kind you find in Cuba) or the millions he had executed because they disagreed with him or the millions that died when he forced different peoples to move around his empire like he was playing some board game.  Stalin was almost certainly the worst leader of the Soviet Union.

[Хahar 🤔]

Gorbachev.

I'm probably the only Gorbachevist on this forum. But his revisionism did (and does) appeal to me greatly. What he had approached social democracy, unlike all the other rulers, who were statists above all.

Khrushchev was quite a fellow, as his memoirs reveal.

[GMantis]

Well, I wanted to get some answers in regard of who was the best leader FOR the Soviet Union. 

Maybe you should have worded it that way then?  And even then it's not clear.  Are we talking what's best for the PEOPLE of the Soviet Union or what's best for the ENTITY that is the Soviet Union.  If it's for the people, then the answer is clearly Gorbachev.  If it's for the entity, then I don't konw.

Anyway, it certainly couldn't be Stalin, he killed 40 million Soviets.  That wouldn't make him the best FOR the Soviet Union, entity or people.  One would think Lenin would be a good choice, but he was just as big of a monster as was Stalin, he just wasn't as good at it.

I really can't see how it can't be Gorbachev unless you're only criteria for "best" is keeping the Soviet Union afloat.

Considering that the collapse of the Soviet Union created multiple bloody conflicts, extreme outbursts of nationalism,   and was an economic disaster for most of the Republics, it's a bit hard to claim that it was good for the people. As far I know the majority in all but the Baltic states regrets the collapse.
Not to mention that Gorbachev didn't intend to cause the collapse of the Soviet Union - he wanted to reform it. So the collapse was the result of his incompetence, not of any conscious desire. Why should he be honored for that?
And he didn't tear down the wall - he simply made clear he wouldn't interfere in Eastern Europe, which led to the tearing of the wall.
Stalin was certainly not the greatest leader. He murdered millions of his countrymen (not 40 million of course, 20 million is closer to the mark, though probably overstated). And for what?
The country was industrialized, but at an enormous and unnecessary cost. His persecutions did far more damage in the long term than any possible good they might have done. And he ignored all indications that Germany would invade which nearly led to the defeat of the Soviet Union.
The greatest leader was Khrushchev - mainly because the others were so bad. He also made some attempts to reform the system. Andropov also tried to do that but he didn't live long enough.

[GMantis]

Gorbachev.

I'm probably the only Gorbachevist on this forum. But his revisionism did (and does) appeal to me greatly. What he had approached social democracy, unlike all the other rulers, who were statists above all.

Khrushchev was quite a fellow, as his memoirs reveal.

Yes, it's a good philosophy on principle. The problem is, he was 15 years late.

[DownWithTheLeft]

Vladamir Putin

[GMantis]

Vladamir Putin

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collapse_of_the_Soviet_Union#Dissolution_of_the_USSR

[DownWithTheLeft]

Vladamir Putin

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collapse_of_the_Soviet_Union#Dissolution_of_the_USSR

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia_is_still_communist_and_evil

[dead0man]

Hey, they're not communist!  More of an Oligarchy.

[GMantis]

Vladamir Putin

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collapse_of_the_Soviet_Union#Dissolution_of_the_USSR

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia_is_still_communist_and_evil

What is communism? You seem to have a strange definition, so would you mind sharing.
It's pointless to object, but Russia is not evil. Merely looking out for its interests in a way that makes other countries angry. Like the US.

[Хahar 🤔]

Gorbachev.

I'm probably the only Gorbachevist on this forum. But his revisionism did (and does) appeal to me greatly. What he had approached social democracy, unlike all the other rulers, who were statists above all.

Khrushchev was quite a fellow, as his memoirs reveal.

Yes, it's a good philosophy on principle. The problem is, he was 15 years late.

You can't fault him for that, though. Andropov could've been a great leader had he lived. And Brezhnev would have been great had he remained the same person Khrushchev liked so much.

The only leader who came into the office with no potential whatsoever was Chernenko.

[Robespierre's Jaw]

Andropov could've been a great leader had he lived.

Xahar, you know and I know that Yuri, despite himself once being a KGB man and being tough against Soviet dissents could have been an excellent leader of the Soviet Union had he lived much longer than his fifteen month tenure as General Secretary of the Communist Party, much better than his abysmal successor Konstantin Chernenko. Judging from what I have read about the Soviet Union, in particular from 1953-1991, Yuri Andropov probably would have undertaken similar Gorbachev reforms earlier than in RL 1985, not to mention groomed Mikhail Sergeyevich as his preferred successor to undertake those reforms, however Yuri was succeeded by Chernenko don't get me started on him!

[Filuwaúrdjan]

No such thing.

[King]

No such thing.

Then think of this question in "like finishing first in the special olympics, you're still retarded" terms.

[Associate Justice PiT]

     I like how three people voted Khrushchev. Is there any redeeming features about him that I'm forgetting? I associate him with the Berlin Ultimatum & the Cuban Missile Crisis, which were not the USSR's finest hours.

[JohnFKennedy]

     I like how three people voted Khrushchev. Is there any redeeming features about him that I'm forgetting? I associate him with the Berlin Ultimatum & the Cuban Missile Crisis, which were not the USSR's finest hours.

The Cuban Missile Crisis saw the removal of US missiles from Turkey that were a major strategic threat to the Soviet Union. Not a bad trade-off, especially given that some of those missiles could have hit Moscow in about twenty minutes.

[Хahar 🤔]

     I like how three people voted Khrushchev. Is there any redeeming features about him that I'm forgetting? I associate him with the Berlin Ultimatum & the Cuban Missile Crisis, which were not the USSR's finest hours.

You look from a typical blind western perspective. He did a lot of good things (the Secret Speech is one, as was the liquidization of Beria). As a protégé of Stalin, he was still an old-school Marxist, but he was the best one tere was.

[Associate Justice PiT]

     Hmm, interesting. It's nice to see the guy did something worthwhile. At any rate, I'm not at all surprised that Gorbachev is winning right now.

[NDN]

And if you select Gorbachev, I'd ask for a reason other than "he listened to Reagan and tore down that wall."  It's not required, but encouraged.

     Glasnost & Perestroika were nice too.

Perestroika was actually an example of monumental incompetence, like a lot of what Gorby did. If he had followed the Chinese Model established by people like Deng, we'd still be talking about the Evil Empire. Of course that means we are probably very lucky he screwed up.