End to Mandatory Cloture Resolution (Law'd)

[minionofmidas]

End to Mandatory Cloture Resolution

1. Article 4, Section 1, Clause 6 of the OSPR is hereby repealed.
2. Clauses 7, 8, and 9 are renumbered accordingly.


Sponsor: Lewis Trondheim

[Torie]

Lewis, would you please post the language being repealed, and explain the effect of your bill, and why you favor it. Thanks.

[minionofmidas]

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Note that this doesn't affect bills that are still being debated on - closing ongoing debate (defined as a post by a Senator within the past 24 hours) still requires a cloture voture. Basically, the rule is just a pain in the ass and has been ignored wholesale by some PPTs in the past.

While I'm at it, I think I'll amend my own resolution to

1. Article 4, Section 1, Clause 6 of the OSPR is hereby repealed.
2. The Sentence "A motion for cloture shall not be required to open a final vote on Amendments to the Constitution." shall be struck from Article 4, Section 1, Clause 4 of the OSPR.
3. Clauses 7, 8, and 9 are renumbered accordingly.

(this is a friendly amendment. Senators have 24 hours to object.)

That sentence - beyond arguably modifying Clause 6 - seems to make it possible to end debate on Constitutional Amendments at just about any time, forcing an immediate up-or-down vote. Which IIRC has not ever been actual Senate practice.

[Torie]

Thanks Lewis. You have my support on this. Requiring cloture for a bill that has not been debated to get it passed is absurd, and the rules for constitutional amendments and bills should be the same. It is the KISS principle.

[DownWithTheLeft]

I don't think I like this bill in its current form

What about something like 24 hours of no debate, then a 24 hour warning period to file an objection to cloture, following that by a vote

[minionofmidas]

Debate having halted for more than 24 hours, we're moving to a final vote.

Please vote aye, nay or abstain.

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Aye.

[DownWithTheLeft]

Nay

I was willing to work on an amendment but this was brought for a final vote rather quickly

[minionofmidas]

Nay

I was willing to work on an amendment but this was brought for a final vote rather quickly

We have a rule that says 24 hours of no debate = debate over. I was acting on that.

(I'm a bit pissed at the lack of debate in this Senate right now. )

I was going to tell you that there's some way to motion for an extension of debate, and was going to look up the particulars, but then I remembered that it doesn't matter, because we also have a rule on 72 hours of debate time minimum, which weren't up yet.

My apologies. This resolution is not yet at a final vote.

Please don't just make declarations about what kind of amendment you'd like. Propose summat yourself. If you do, it will get voted upon.

[DownWithTheLeft]

To revise Article IV, Section 1, Clause 6 of the OSPR to read:

6. If fourteen (14) days have passed since the opening of the debate on a piece of legislation, and a vote on said legislation has not begun, as per the guidelines set out in Clauses 2 and 4 of this Section, any motions brought forth to bring the legislation under consideration to a vote and end the debate shall require the concurrence of a two-thirds (2/3) majority of senators in the affirmative only if a vote is requested by at least 2 members of the senate prior the fourteenth day

[Sensei]

I could go for this

[Torie]

To revise Article IV, Section 1, Clause 6 of the OSPR to read:

6. If fourteen (14) days have passed since the opening of the debate on a piece of legislation, and a vote on said legislation has not begun, as per the guidelines set out in Clauses 2 and 4 of this Section, any motions brought forth to bring the legislation under consideration to a vote and end the debate shall require the concurrence of a two-thirds (2/3) majority of senators in the affirmative only if a vote is requested by at least 2 members of the senate prior the fourteenth day

I need some more help with this.  What is the lay of the land here?

1. For the first 3 days, no vote may occur.
2. After 3 days, and forever more, the PPT can call for a vote, if there has been no post for 24 hours.
3. Non PPT's can move for a vote requiring only a majority up until 14 days?
4. After 14 days, non PPT's can move for a vote but it requires two thirds (this bill eliminates the two thirds requirement).
5. DWTL's amendment would retain the two thirds requirement if two Senators are smart enough to ask for one prior to the elapse of 14 days (in which event for legislation senators don't like, that might be done as a matter of course).

No doubt the above is errant, but I think we need a systems analysis of how it works now, and how it will change. One source of confusion, is that PPT's don't move for a vote, which motion  is then voted upon, they just announce a vote has begun, if there has been a 24 hour period of silence, it would appear to me.

[minionofmidas]

1. For the first 3 days, no vote may occur.

Yep, three days minimum debate. (Before a vote on final passage, that is. Amendments to a bill, 24 to 72 hours debate, PPT's choice - I suppose there are some rules on how to override it, but they've been rarely if ever used. I know where to look them up if needed. )

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Is supposed to call for (ie start) a vote, actually. Provided there aren't any amendments on the floor that still need to be voted on either.

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Need...to...check...to...be...quite...sure. Basically, while debate is still going on (ie, a post within last 24 hours) or after at least 14 days on the floor, getting a final vote started requires cloture first. I think you can move to have a final vote, but it's sort of pointless in non-cloture situations - I'm supposed to start it whether someone moved for it or no.

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Provided that they think it could pass but not achieve two-thirds. Mind you, they can just as easily simply keep debating the bill's demerits - although this might make sense if you're sure of your opposition but not of your continued PC access.

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Technically, we move for a vote and then open the vote right away. But yeah, maybe I should post "I move for a vote", wait a moment, and then post again opening the vote.

I could live with Dwtl's amendment - basically removing pointless cloture motions without scrapping one of our filibuster methods. I suppose the third section (the bit about renumbering) is to be struck?

[Torie]

Thanks for helping me out on this Lewis. I appreciate it.

[minionofmidas]

The vote is on the Amendment.
Please vote aye, nay or abstain.

To revise Article IV, Section 1, Clause 6 of the OSPR to read:

6. If fourteen (14) days have passed since the opening of the debate on a piece of legislation, and a vote on said legislation has not begun, as per the guidelines set out in Clauses 2 and 4 of this Section, any motions brought forth to bring the legislation under consideration to a vote and end the debate shall require the concurrence of a two-thirds (2/3) majority of senators in the affirmative only if a vote is requested by at least 2 members of the senate prior the fourteenth day

(It seems this text replaces section 1 of the current version, section 2 is unaffected, and section 3 is struck if the amendment passes. If this is incorrect, breathing of a word while the vote's still young would be appreciated. )

[DownWithTheLeft]

Aye


You've got it right Lewis, I pretty much just considered it a re-write of the bill

[minionofmidas]

Abstain.


I genuinely like both versions - I might yet change my vote to either aye or nay.

[Torie]

Aye

[CultureKing]

aye

[Sensei]

aye

[minionofmidas]

Current vote count:

Aye 4 (Dwtl, Torie, Culture, Sensei)
Nay 0
abstain (voted) 1 (Lewis)
abstain (did not vote) 5 (Jas, Al, Meeker, Verily, Bacon)

[Meeker]

Aye

[Bacon King]

abstain

[Јas]

Abstain

[minionofmidas]

This Amendment has passed.

Vote count:

Aye 5 (Dwtl, Torie, Culture, Sensei, Meeker)
Nay 0
abstain (voted) 3 (Lewis, Bacon, Jas)
abstain (did not vote) 2 (Al, Verily)

[minionofmidas]

As there has been no further debate, I'm moving for a final vote. Please vote aye, nay or abstain.

1. To revise Article IV, Section 1, Clause 6 of the OSPR to read:

"6. If fourteen (14) days have passed since the opening of the debate on a piece of legislation, and a vote on said legislation has not begun, as per the guidelines set out in Clauses 2 and 4 of this Section, any motions brought forth to bring the legislation under consideration to a vote and end the debate shall require the concurrence of a two-thirds (2/3) majority of senators in the affirmative only if a vote is requested by at least 2 members of the senate prior the fourteenth day."

2. The Sentence "A motion for cloture shall not be required to open a final vote on Amendments to the Constitution." shall be struck from Article 4, Section 1, Clause 4 of the OSPR.

Aye