Dependent Child and Income Tax Credit (Law'd)

[Torie]

What is wrong with the current welfare policy in the other place?  It seems to have done away with most of the shiftless.

[Torie]

Everybody gets a check, non means tested, and then there is another means tested check?  Let's see. I have a million bucks, plus a $500,000 home fully paid for, and decide to stop working, and get $35,000 per year from my million, and now I get also a means tested and non means tested check to boot (which is of course why I decided to stop working, because that combined with the higher taxes I would have to pay if I kept working, just suggested to me that it was time to hit the beach, and be a hedonist 24/7. 

I see that Thomas Jefferson was not the only wholly headed Welshman! 

[Torie]

In the blizzard of your words, I didn't notice that your government checks were limited to either 1) breeders, aka I assume those with dependent children, and 2) those without a job, no matter why. But trust fund babies get a check too I guess, as long as they are breeders, or choose not to work, and live off their dividends. Is this a fertility increase scheme? That seems just so well -  European. We have enough "religious" in Atlasia, that we still breed sometimes, even given the current system.

[Torie]

Al, this is going to be litigation city, or you are going to have to give the feds ruling making authority to define all the terms that you have left undefined, and such regulatory authority would have to have the force of law, and not be subject to judicial review as to whether such definitions are "reasonable" or "have a rational basis" or other such cant.  As a heads up, I am going to oppose this legislation in any form, and may try to filibuster it, but I will try to help you make it "better." 

 In any event, you need a CPI adjustment clause for starters. I have a feeling that in a couple of years, there is going to be a very high rate of inflation indeed. If you own any long bonds (other than TIPS), get out of them is my best advice, putting aside the default risk if they are issued by other than solvent governments (eg Iceland; it is kind of arresting that a country's banks can take down the country itself) or private companies (eg most of them).

[Torie]

Was that a long winded way of telling me to F off? 

I meant the latter regarding inflation, btw.

[Torie]

Torie, you're a lawyer, correct? Write something up.

Al is annoyed with me. If he wants my help he can ask. He's an adult.

[Torie]

I was not threatening legal action. I was making a policy comment, as to how workable the legislation would be in practice. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

[Torie]

What is the largest city in Ohio?

[Torie]

It still sucks, but it's better than the original article, so Aye.

[Torie]

We really want to go down this road of non means tested welfare?

[Torie]

Aye x 2

I will be a firm opponent of the substance however, when we get to that.  What is wrong with a child tax credit and an earned income tax credit by the way?  Why is more needed really?

[Torie]

So. Everybody's minds made up, either to vote for or against? Or is there anybody out there who will vote against the current version, but might be swayable by further amendations?





I'll now go piece the current version together.

I don't like handing out non means tested checks, and I don't like handing out checks to folks in order to help facilitate sitting on their asses either. For those who work or have kids, income tax credits are easier to administer, and make a lot more sense.

[Torie]

Aye I guess, although it would be better to have a phase out, since without it, for the value of the entitlement, when one approaches 35K, the effective tax rate will be 100%.

[Torie]

I move to amend the pending Welfare Reform Act bill so that it reads in its entirety as follows:

Dependent Child and Income Tax Credit Act

1. The Modified Welfare Reform Act (F.L. 12-12) and the Welfare Reform Act (F.L. 4-9) are both hereby repealed.

2. All individuals who on their tax return filed for the year append  a statement signed by the applicable unemployment office or school in question, which state that the filer, or filers in the case of joint returns,  were during the tax year in question,   unemployed and actively seeking employment or in school full time, and achieved passing grades in the courses taken if in school, shall receive a tax credit of $134 per week while unemployed or in school during such period for each such filer. If the adjusted gross income on such return exceeds $30,000 for an individual, or $50,000 for a joint return, the amount of such tax credit shall be reduced by an amount equal to 25% of the amount by which such adjusted gross income so exceeds such amount.

3. All households in Atlasia with dependent children as of the end of the tax year in question, shall be entitled to claim a dependent child income tax credit of $1,500 for each such dependent child.

[Torie]

Next time I'm on, which probably is tomorrow, we'll vote on this amendment. Meanwhile

"Persons benefiting under this section, shall be limited in their entitlements such that their total annual household income may not be exceed $35,000."

And if this passes, I'll offer a friendly amendment to correct the spelling next, and add a clarifying "yearly".

"Persons benefiting under this section, shall be limited in their entitlements in such a way that their total annual household income does not exceed $35,000."

offered as friendly. (Would obviously be irrelevant and/or withdrawn if we pass Torie's amendment). If Torie's amendment fails, I might have yet another amendment after that, to create a phaseout here. And then after that, we might even move on to a final vote, possibly before the session ends.

Do I  have your vote on my amendment, Lewis, or if not, what can I do with the language to get it?  Ditto any other senator.

[Torie]

I made the child tax credit more generous, and the fadeout starts before 35K but ends after it. If you start it at 35K, the fade out will go on until 63K.  If you increase the fade out at a rate higher than 25%, the effective marginal tax rate goes up more, and that is bad. We want to encourage folks to work.

[Torie]

Aye

[Torie]

Aye. Torie is a "socialist." Who knew? 

[Torie]

X President Bgwah

omg that was fun

When you get a bit older, you will find power even more satisfying then sex.