Obama now winning California by 25 points while Prop 8 probably passed

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Wow, I didn't expect that it would be this much. Of course we still have millions of votes to count, so it could change a fair amount

Obama 61.5
McCain 36.7
Nader 0.8
Barr 0.5
Keyes 0.3
McKinney 0.2

But Prop. 8 is still leading by 3.6 points.

[Sbane]

Increased black turnout actually hurt the no on prop 8 team. Same with increased latino and asian voting, although it wasn't as bad. There was a reason the yes on 8 people were advertising on air america.

[phk]

Increased black turnout actually hurt the no on prop 8 team. Same with increased latino and asian voting, although it wasn't as bad. There was a reason the yes on 8 people were advertising on air america.

Looks like I was right about this.

[patrick1]

A case of be careful what you wish for.  For my general and anecdotal experience, blacks and Hispanics are much more homophobic than your typical white voter-  especially true in Cali.  
Increased Obama turnout helped.  

[phk]

A case of be careful what you wish for.  For my general and anecdotal experience, blacks and Hispanics are much more homophobic than your typical white voter-  especially true in Cali.  
Increased Obama turnout helped.  

We have a winner here.

[patrick1]

A case of be careful what you wish for.  For my general and anecdotal experience, blacks and Hispanics are much more homophobic than your typical white voter-  especially true in Cali.  
Increased Obama turnout helped.  

We have a winner here.

I am sure Cali is slightly different but:
I work with a lot of Caribbeans- Dominicans, Puertos, Haitians, Jamaicans, Guyanese and Trinis.  A fair amount of Pakistanis, Indians and a few Mexicans as well.  Among them you'll find Catholic, Prots, Hindus, Muslims and Sikhs. To the letter they are all  Obama voters and all staggeringly anti gay.  Same holds true for American born blacks- hell just listen to rap music.   

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

probably the last ray of light before the coming darkness.  but, in the end, God's word will stand forever!  Amen.

[riceowl]

in the end, God's word will stand forever!  Amen.

agreed.  too bad this prop won though.

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

in the end, God's word will stand forever!  Amen.

agreed.  too bad this prop won though.

why? you think God's word supports gay marriage?

[cp]

you think it doesn't?!

[Eraserhead]

If it passes, it passes because of blacks. Latino split on it and whites (narrowly) voted it down, according to the exit polling anyway. Sad.

A lot of blacks in this country still need to wake up and realize that social justice doesn't begin and end with them.

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

you think it doesn't?!

not any more than it supports you marrying your yourself, or your pet, or your pencil.

God is the one that created the two different sexes and God is the one that created the institution of marriage between the sexes.  And God is the one that placed human sexual relations within the context of marriage.  

He didn't create a marriage among the same sex.  And he went on to condemn human sexual activity outside of the context of a heterosexual marriage.

these are facts no HONEST reader of the bible can deny

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

If it passes, it passes because of blacks. Latino split on it and whites (narrowly) voted it down, according to the exit polling anyway. Sad.

A lot of blacks in this country still need to wake up and realize that social justice doesn't begin and end with them.

can someone please tell me how homosexuality equates to skin color?

[Eraserhead]

jmfcst, your ghost in the sky is a bigot.

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

jmfcst, your ghost in the sky is a bigot.

yes, he only takes pleasure in truth, he is very bigoted against deceit.  Which is why he sent his word and personally came to earth - so that we could have truth and walk in truth.

[Eraserhead]

jmfcst, your ghost in the sky is a bigot.

yes, he only takes pleasure in truth, he is very bigoted against deceit.  Which is why he sent his word and personally came to earth - so that we could have truth and walk in truth.

k

[cp]

you think it doesn't?!

not any more than it supports you marrying your yourself, or your pet, or your pencil.

God is the one that created the two different sexes and God is the one that created the institution of marriage between the sexes.  And God is the one that placed human sexual relations within the context of marriage.  

He didn't create a marriage among the same sex.  And he went on to condemn human sexual activity outside of the context of a heterosexual marriage.

these are facts no HONEST reader of the bible can deny

*sigh* someone stopped trying to learn about Christianity in grade school . . .

Leaving aside the debates about whether or not the bible is the word of God, or whether it is to be taken literally, or whether it has been mistranslated over the years, or whether your reading of those translations is anywhere near accurate, simply put: Christianity's view of marriage should not be the basis of modern social arrangements in a pluralistic, mutli-faith society.

There is a multitude of beliefs and traditions about marriage in the U.S., many of which embrace or have embraced same-sex couplings. Requiring adherence to a narrow reading of one religion's texts is disrespectful to the diversity of the U.S. citizenry.

Also, because I can't resist this, the fables you outlined as being the basis for *your* rejection of same-sex relationships are only one part of a complex and contradictory set of prescriptions and proscriptions about sexuality from the bible. I suggest you read John Boswell's 'Christianity, Homosexuality, and Social Tolerance' as a reference. Christianity has a long history of embracing same sex relations and relationships stretching from its earliest days to the early modern period. The prohibitions against it are either Talumdic (therefore not required for Christians, as per the decision of the Council of Nicea) or apostolic (originating from the writings of people like St. Paul and St. John - thereby not the word of God, but of man).

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

Also, because I can't resist this, the fables you outlined as being the basis for *your* rejection of same-sex relationships are only one part of a complex and contradictory set of prescriptions and proscriptions about sexuality from the bible.

the only examples of same-sex-sex in the bible are negative - and the only allow sexual activity is in the context of a heterosexual marriage........what's so complex and contradictory about that?  seems extremely simple and uniform to me

---

I suggest you read John Boswell's 'Christianity, Homosexuality, and Social Tolerance' as a reference. Christianity has a long history of embracing same sex relations and relationships stretching from its earliest days to the early modern period. The prohibitions against it are either Talumdic (therefore not required for Christians, as per the decision of the Council of Nicea) or apostolic (originating from the writings of people like St. Paul and St. John - thereby not the word of God, but of man).

if you want to make a SCRIPTURAL case for homosexuality, then be my guess.  But please leave out the traditions of men, I have no use of them.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

A case of be careful what you wish for.  For my general and anecdotal experience, blacks and Hispanics are much more homophobic than your typical white voter-  especially true in Cali.  
Increased Obama turnout helped.  

Part of the problem was that the no campaign was rather lousy, I don't know if they did much in miniority areas. Meanwhile the yes side made it seem like Obama supported Prop. 8 by running robocalls and the like (I got one) using Obama's words on gay marriage. Obama opposed Prop. 8.

Anyways, it it kind of crazy that a vote of 50.00000001% with whatever turnout that election can amend the Constitution.

[Jake]

Would've been nice if Barack would've cut an ad backing "No" in the final week of the campaign. I imagine that would've been enough to defeat this bigotry. Of course, Barack doesn't give two shits about gay rights; it's not good for his image.

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Would've been nice if Barack would've cut an ad backing "No" in the final week of the campaign. I imagine that would've been enough to defeat this bigotry. Of course, Barack doesn't give two shits about gay rights; it's not good for his image.

Honestly, I don't like Obama's positions on a lot of issues, but I think being anti Prop 8, in favor of repealing DOMA, against a federal amendment, but also anti gay marriage is the best position anyone who wanted to win a Presidential election this year could have had. I don't fault Obama.

[FerrisBueller86]

How can African Americans, Latinos, and Asian Americans be so strongly against gay marriage?  I know that those of us who aren't Caucasian have just as much right to be bigots, but you'd think we'd be sensitive to the issues of minority groups.  The arguments against gay marriage sound just like the arguments used against interracial marriage in the past.  Interracial marriage is no longer controversial, even among conservatives.

50 years from now, opposition to gay marriage will be seen in the same light that apartheid and segregation are seen today.

Ironically enough, gay marriage is now legal in South Africa.  How can the US lag behind the home of apartheid on equality?

[phk]

How can African Americans, Latinos, and Asian Americans be so strongly against gay marriage?  I know that those of us who aren't Caucasian have just as much right to be bigots, but you'd think we'd be sensitive to the issues of minority groups.  The arguments against gay marriage sound just like the arguments used against interracial marriage in the past.  Interracial marriage is no longer controversial, even among conservatives.

50 years from now, opposition to gay marriage will be seen in the same light that apartheid and segregation are seen today.

Ironically enough, gay marriage is now legal in South Africa.  How can the US lag behind the home of apartheid on equality?

Religion and traditionalism dominates the above cultures.

[exopolitician]

Such a dissapointment.

[Jake]

Honestly, I don't like Obama's positions on a lot of issues, but I think being anti Prop 8, in favor of repealing DOMA, against a federal amendment, but also anti gay marriage is the best position anyone who wanted to win a Presidential election this year could have had. I don't fault Obama.

Glad to see he's basing his opinions on the polls. This is one area where he should've been in the final week when he was basically assured of winning the election. He obviously has sway over blacks and it was obvious they were going to matter in California. It's a failure of leadership in my opinion.