*Warning* Very Contraversial Topic: Is there anything to this?

[12th Doctor]

I have been thinking recently that we haven't had a really good discussion about a contraversial topic on this forum for a long time.

I was watching the History Channel today and they were discussion the "Hitler Schools".  The had a chart that showed all of the different "races" of Germany and what their various attributes were said to be.

I got curious and desided to look it up on the internet.  That was when I cam e accross this site:

http://www.portal-ns.com/thecensure/hj2.htm

I read it rather throughly.  At first glance, one is tempted to write the whole thing off as juck science, but then I started thinking and wondering, "Is there anything to this"?

Now, make no mistake, I'm not buying into Nazi ideology, but this presents a worthy question to be contemplated:

"What does race have to do, if anything, with the personal attributes of the individual"?

Further More:

"Do you believe there is any truth to this chart, outside of the obvious attempts to uber-glorify the Nordic race?"

"Are certain races generally more studious, introverted/extroverted, logical/feeling than others"?

Finally Just For Fun:

"If applicable, what "race" would you fit into"?

I'm curious to see the response.





Once More:


I AM NOT BUYING INTO NAZI IDEOLOGY BY POSING THIS QUESTION

[12th Doctor]

It's an interesting question. However, scientific studies have shown fairly conclusively that there is no connection...it's entirely cultural. Far more nurture than nature.

Genetics plays a limited role, but people are far more likely to be similar to their parents than they are to be similar to other members of their race.

However, on a psychlogical level, studies have conisitantly shown that children adopted at birth tend to favor their real parents far more, personality wise, than their adopted parents.  Psychology, at least for now, side more on the nature side of the debate.

[12th Doctor]

The problem with the Hitler's ideology was not that certain races have better abilities than others, but rather that Hitler took everything to an extreme. Scientific research proves that races are different genetically, in that they are prone to different illnesses, have different heights, etc. Now what does this means? It means that people of Bantu heritage have a higher capacity to be good runners, while people of Arab heritage have a lower capacity. Now, this is not saying that ALL Bantus are good runners, and ALL Arabs are bad runners; obviously there are cultural, habitual, and familiar influences that lead to the success of a runner. But there are obviously certain skills in races that other races don't have. This is simply the mode of evolution.

Let's use dogs as an example. The Fox Terrier is a small dog (usually no more than 17" to the shoulder) with a long snout. The purpose of the dog is to catch vermin. Breeding and evolution has made the dog adapt, and so the dog has a higher capacity to be a skilled vermin hunter. However, the Irish Wolfhound (my dogs ) is a very large dog (mine are 30" and 32" to the shoulder, I believe), and obviously isn't going to easily be able to catch vermin because of its large size. However, the dog is excellent at hunting wolves, because of its large size. Once again, this is not to say that all Irish Wolfhounds are good wolf hunters and all Fox Terriers are good vermin hunters.  My Irish Wolfhounds have never seen a wolf, and I’d imagine they’d run away from the wolf if they ever saw one, and become prey instead of predator. Meanwhile, I’m sure many Fox Terriers could become excellent wolf hunters (though highly unlikely, possible). One again, familiar, cultural influences and habitat can change anything.

Hitler’s ideology is simply a perversion of this fact. I don't like to use the term "race" unless nessecary because I simply don't believe it exists. However, I believe that people living in habitats do exist, and adaption determine one's skill.

You would be very suprised.  My Boarder Collie had never seen sheep in her life until just a few weeks ago, yet, when she saw them, she instictivly knew what to do and started herding them.

At the same token, we never trained her to be a herding dog, but she life to herd family members and even our cats.

[12th Doctor]

Seeing that Border Collies are the smartest dogs in the world, they don't simply succeed in shepherding, but have also mastered many other activities, such as retrieveing, hunting, etc. Which brings me to yet another point- certain dogs are smarter than others. I would wonder if this is the same case with humans.

My point is that certain races have genetic differences that create capabilities and flaws.

I agree with you, I was answering the statement about your Wolfhounds.  They might, indeed, revert to instinct if they saw a Wolf, Despite never having seen one.  Which make the point the I have, which is that nature can be a very strong force.

[12th Doctor]

I would tie my last post into the idea that certainly, there are different charecteristics between different races and ethnicities of people.  We are all humans, don't get me wrong, but if you believe in elvelutionary theory, then you must believe that the variations in different people are present to improve the survival skills of that group in thier climate.  Indeed, given some millions of years of development, we might eventually have not only different races, but different spiecies of humans, given enough genetic and enviromental variations, though with new technology, this seems unlikely.

However, do these differences account for personality differences in individuals?  In nature important to personality.  Studies on individuals would seem to indicate that nature is very important.  Is it important on a race-by-race basis though?  I'm still in the air about that.

[12th Doctor]

My if Hitler and his nutty ideas had never had come to surface scientists and the like could have actually researched the things you speculate Super w/out the fear of being deemed racists or bigots.

Very true.

[12th Doctor]

On the bright side of things, I think sceince has become much more out in the open about researching the differences between the races and gender in past decade.

[12th Doctor]

If you are into this sort of thing a very interesting site is

http://www.angeltowns.com/members/racialreal/index.html

This site will give some very interesting information with a Nordic bias.  Of particular interest to me was the Caucasian subrace section and the links to photo supplements of Harvard? anthrologist Carleton Coon's book The Races of Europe.  I don't know how valid it all is but it is interesting nonetheless Genetic info is also pretty interesting.  

Wow, thanks.  I was looking for a site that didn't approuch the topic in a pseudo-science way.

[12th Doctor]

By asking this question you're letting the Nazi's win.  

Sorry but this thread was having too much of rational discussion here.

Anyway as we be come a more global society will any real or imagined differences become less?  Or will people continue to breed with others with similar traits?

Reseach seems to suggest thar people are simply more attracted to those of their race/ethnicity.  This doesn't hold true for everyone and certainly true love and the changes in culture and "globalization" today might indeed lead to a more "unified" human race.  I do doubt, however, given simply human nature and the nature of attraction specifically, means that we will never "abolish race".

That's just my theory.  I could just be short-sighted.