Gubernatorial Amendment (Amendment at Vote)

[Sensei]

The governors have to do something. But, on the other hand, do we really want a legislator who can't be defeated in an election (Verin)

[Хahar 🤔]

The governors have to do something. But, on the other hand, do we really want a legislator who can't be defeated in an election (Verin)

(Sam Spade)

[minionofmidas]

The governors have to do something. But, on the other hand, do we really want a legislator who can't be defeated in an election (Verin)

Ha can be. And almost was the last time around - he won 3-2. He would have lost if you had voted against him.

[minionofmidas]

Question: Were this amendment to pass, it would pretty much do away with all the arguments ever forwarded in favor of regional senate seats, right?

Well, that calls for coupling it with this ole beaut:

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(not an amendment yet)

[Јas]

Amendment

That section 4 be amended with the inclusion of "two-thirds" such that it reads:
The Council of Governors shall consist of the heads of state of the regions. Each head of state shall have one vote. The votes of a two-thirds majority of the current membership shall be required to not approve of any legislation. 

[minionofmidas]

Amendment

That section 4 be amended with the inclusion of "two-thirds" such that it reads:
The Council of Governors shall consist of the heads of state of the regions. Each head of state shall have one vote. The votes of a two-thirds majority of the current membership shall be required to not approve of any legislation. 

I don't like it.

[Јas]

Amendment

That section 4 be amended with the inclusion of "two-thirds" such that it reads:
The Council of Governors shall consist of the heads of state of the regions. Each head of state shall have one vote. The votes of a two-thirds majority of the current membership shall be required to not approve of any legislation. 

I don't like it.

I'm fairly lukewarm towards the whole idea of the Council of Governors, but I can't support it if just 3 Governors can constitute a potential blocking majority on anything that moves.

[minionofmidas]

Amendment

That section 4 be amended with the inclusion of "two-thirds" such that it reads:
The Council of Governors shall consist of the heads of state of the regions. Each head of state shall have one vote. The votes of a two-thirds majority of the current membership shall be required to not approve of any legislation. 

I don't like it.

I'm fairly lukewarm towards the whole idea of the Council of Governors, but I can't support it if just 3 Governors can constitute a potential blocking majority on anything that moves.

But but but... Veto overrides are FUN!

Besides, I'm viewing the Governors as a stepping stone towards popular approval, really.

[HappyWarrior]

I feel like this could very easily become like  the UN and that certain Governors *coughDukecough* can overrule perfectly legitamite things far too easily.

[Јas]

Amendment

That section 4 be amended with the inclusion of "two-thirds" such that it reads:
The Council of Governors shall consist of the heads of state of the regions. Each head of state shall have one vote. The votes of a two-thirds majority of the current membership shall be required to not approve of any legislation. 

I don't like it.

I'm fairly lukewarm towards the whole idea of the Council of Governors, but I can't support it if just 3 Governors can constitute a potential blocking majority on anything that moves.

But but but... Veto overrides are FUN!

Besides, I'm viewing the Governors as a stepping stone towards popular approval, really.

Well, given the relative infrequency of gubernatorial electoral contests, I'd suggest that both we Senators and the President are much closer to representing popular approval.

[DownWithTheLeft]

I feel like this could very easily become like  the UN and that certain Governors *coughDukecough* can overrule perfectly legitamite things far too easily.

If there region felt so then it would be in their best interest.  What's with the 180 from being a moderate region right's guy to a liberal federal government guy?

Anyway, I support this idea wholeheartedly in a step to really show the power the regions should hold

[Хahar 🤔]

I feel like this could very easily become like  the UN and that certain Governors *coughDukecough* can overrule perfectly legitamite things far too easily.

If there region felt so then it would be in their best interest.  What's with the 180 from being a moderate region right's guy to a liberal federal government guy?

Anyway, I support this idea wholeheartedly in a step to really show the power the regions should hold

In that case, would you be opposed to the abolition of regional seats?

[DownWithTheLeft]

In that case, would you be opposed to the abolition of regional seats?

Obviously

[Хahar 🤔]

In that case, would you be opposed to the abolition of regional seats?

Obviously

Why?

[DownWithTheLeft]

In that case, would you be opposed to the abolition of regional seats?

Obviously

Why?

You are denying the regions their right to representation.

[Хahar 🤔]

In that case, would you be opposed to the abolition of regional seats?

Obviously

Why?

You are denying the regions their right to representation.

They get that in the upper house.

[DownWithTheLeft]

Question: Were this amendment to pass, it would pretty much do away with all the arguments ever forwarded in favor of regional senate seats, right?

Not at all, if I'm correct this body would only have veto power, not the power to pass laws.  Regional senate seats are incredibly important still

[DownWithTheLeft]

EDIT: I was wrong, but it makes me like the idea even more.  Regional senate seats are still important and crucial.

[HappyWarrior]

I feel like this could very easily become like  the UN and that certain Governors *coughDukecough* can overrule perfectly legitamite things far too easily.

If there region felt so then it would be in their best interest.  What's with the 180 from being a moderate region right's guy to a liberal federal government guy?

Anyway, I support this idea wholeheartedly in a step to really show the power the regions should hold

I never made such a change, I simply feel that the regions should not overpower the federal government as I see this measure doing.  We need a mixed system, not a confederacy.  This will allow the regions to have more power than the national government.

[Associate Justice PiT]

I feel like this could very easily become like  the UN and that certain Governors *coughDukecough* can overrule perfectly legitamite things far too easily.

If there region felt so then it would be in their best interest.  What's with the 180 from being a moderate region right's guy to a liberal federal government guy?

Anyway, I support this idea wholeheartedly in a step to really show the power the regions should hold

I never made such a change, I simply feel that the regions should not overpower the federal government as I see this measure doing.  We need a mixed system, not a confederacy.  This will allow the regions to have more power than the national government.

     This doesn't give the regions that much power. Basically, if three of their Governors want to do it, they can veto a bill. No fewer will be able to accomplish it, & the Senate can still override the veto.

[Torie]

Offered as friendly...

1. The Preamble to Article 1 of the Constitution is amended to read "All Legislative Powers herein granted shall be vested in the Legislature of the Republic of Atlasia. The Legislature shall be composed of the Senate and the Council of Governors. "

2. Article I, Section 3, Clause 3 [current text - this is for information purposes and not part of the amendment - : For any Bill or Resolution to pass the Senate, it shall have gained a majority in a valid vote. Before the Bill or Resolution becomes Law, it shall be presented to the President of the Republic of Atlasia, unless it be concerning the rules for the proceedings of the Senate. If the President approves, he shall sign it, and it shall become Law. If the President does not approve, he shall return the Bill with his objections to the Senate, and it shall not become Law. Upon reconsidering the Bill, if the Senate shall approve the legislation by two-thirds of its number, it shall become Law. If a Bill is not returned to the Senate by the President within seven days after it shall have been presented to him, it shall become Law regardless.] is amended to read:  "For any Bill or Resolution to pass the Senate, it shall have gained a majority in a valid vote. Before the Bill or Resolution becomes Law, it shall be presented to the Council of Governors and then to the President of the Republic of Atlasia, unless it be concerning the rules for the proceedings of the Senate. If both approve, the President shall sign it, and it shall become Law. If the President does not approve, he shall return the Bill with his objections to the Senate, and it shall not become Law. If the Council of Governors does not approve, they shall return the Bill with their objections to the Senate, and it shall not become Law. Upon reconsidering the Bill, if the Senate shall approve the legislation by two-thirds of its number, it shall become Law. If a Bill is not returned to the Senate by the President within seven days after it shall have been presented to him, it shall become Law regardless. " [note: As the Council of Governors are not required to sign the bill if they approve, the fact that a week of inaction by them is the same thing as consent goes without saying. I hope. If people find this too unclear please say so.]

3. The title of Section 5 is amended to read "Powers of the Legislature". The preamble of Section 5 is amended to read "The Legislature shall have the power save where limited by other provisions in the Constitution". The title of Section 6 is amended to read "Powers denied to the Legislature".

4. The Council of Governors shall consist of the heads of state of the regions. Each head of state shall have one vote. The votes of a majority of the current membership shall be required to not approve of any legislation. 


Incidentally, I just noticed that we Senators cannot be impeached under the Constitution of Atlasia - it's only for executive and judicial officers of the Republic of Atlasia, not legislative ones. Learn something new every day... of course, we can still be expelled from the Senate. This also means that section doesn't need a rewrite.

I struck sections 6 and 7.

This makes it so that, basically, if three Governors state their disapproval within a week of a bill passing (the same as the President's action timeframe), it's considered vetoed same as if it was vetoed by the President. They don't get a line item veto, though.

And I will later try to amend this further to turn it into the AtlaMinh/Referendum Movement idea of having all bills passed by the people, except I'll keep the regional aspect.

I propose amending Lewis' language as follows:

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[minionofmidas]

I'm not sure -

Exclusive of any law or regulation governing the rules for the proceedings of the Senate, over which the Senate shall have exclusive jurisdiction, for any Bill or Resolution to become law, it shall first be passed by the Senate in accordance with existing law

This is the Constitution we're amending here - this is, in fact the base text you're referring to with the phrase "existing law". Besides, I'm not even sure if this were to mean before Presidential signature or after. (The later part of your amendment implies before, but it's not clear from the language used here.) Besides, my version has the Governors acting at the same time as the President, thus not slowing up the process (in theory. In practice, of course, it would still do so as Presidents frequently sign quite early within their week. Then again, Governors might also declare their approval quite quickly if notified.) I'm also not happy with the PPT being *required* to notify Governors enshrined in the Constitutional text. I've been notifying presidents by pm since I took office, but I'm pretty sure that hasn't always been the case - the phrase with which I closed votes in the thread ("it is presented to the President for his signature or veto") has always been considered sufficient.
Plus, the language I'm using is trying to stick to traditional Atlasian constitutional language.

[minionofmidas]

Amendment

That section 4 be amended with the inclusion of "two-thirds" such that it reads:
The Council of Governors shall consist of the heads of state of the regions. Each head of state shall have one vote. The votes of a two-thirds majority of the current membership shall be required to not approve of any legislation. 

The vote is on the amendment. Please vote aye, nay or abstain.

[Associate Justice PiT]

     Aye

[Јas]

Aye