Anyone want to step up and defend consensual incest being legal (but a bad idea)

[Workers' Friend]

Ewwww no, Incest is disgusting, immoral, and pointless.

SOOOO WHAT??? That's your personal opinion....why do you religious right people think your religious opinions should be turned into law?

It's known that incest will make a baby with birth defects, I don't want anyone to suffer through that. Second of all, why would you want to  a family relative? That is unacceptable in modern society.

[Franzl]

Ewwww no, Incest is disgusting, immoral, and pointless.

SOOOO WHAT??? That's your personal opinion....why do you religious right people think your religious opinions should be turned into law?

It's known that incest will make a baby with birth defects, I don't want anyone to suffer through that. Second of all, why would you want to  a family relative? That is unacceptable in modern society.

Please read my above posts concerning probability....

[Franzl]

And it's not like we're talking about a mass incest movement.....It's quite seldom that people would want that right.

[MK]

Franzl whats your problem with religious people?   

You are reaching way too much to be such a intelligent person so it seems.

[jokerman]

Incest is taboo not just in Christianity but in most religions and cultures around the world.  That impulsive instinct against incest has very good biological reasons around it.

[Tetro Kornbluth]

Incest is taboo not just in Christianity but in most religions and cultures around the world.  That impulsive instinct against incest has very good biological reasons around it.

The content of it is different however, and sometimes quite perverse to western eyes. To Invoke The Argonauts of the Western Pacific the people of Triobriand Islands off the coast of Papua New Guinea (c1915) practised a form of kinship whereby most contact between brother and sister was prohibited, where if the brother saw his sister so much as naked he was supposed to kill himself on the spot (In reality this wasn't always the case, it was the ideal) while on the other hand, the aunts.. I think maternal aunts, but don't quote me on that... of boys were meant to initiate them into sexual activity as if some kind of sexual tutor.

Prohibitions on Incest seem to be universal (even for Indigenous Australians the ultimate insult was to accuse someone of sleeping with their mother) but the exact form of the prohibition - ie. which part of your family you don't under any circumstances have sex with - is quite varied and depends on alot of other, mostly cultural, factors.

Biology here is an inadequate explaination. It takes a too rationalist view of human beings.

[minionofmidas]

Yes, incest increases the risk of birth defects.....but so does drinking alcohol during pregnancy, and most people advise against that as well.

So does fathering a child on a woman over 30.

That in fact is a very accurate comparison with cousin "incest" (which is perfectly legal in most Western countries, anyways.) - about the same risk level.

Now, father-daughter (or son-mother)... that's a little more difficult.

Prohibitions on Incest seem to be universal (even for Indigenous Australians the ultimate insult was to accuse someone of sleeping with their mother) but the exact form of the prohibition - ie. which part of your family you don't under any circumstances have sex with - is quite varied and depends on alot of other, mostly cultural, factors.

And, as a too-general rule, the more primitive the culture, the wider the taboo. Up to the notion of "clan incest", meaning all members of the same clan are considered descended of the same common ancestor and therefore sexual relationships between them are forbidden.

[Tetro Kornbluth]

Yes, incest increases the risk of birth defects.....but so does drinking alcohol during pregnancy, and most people advise against that as well.

So does fathering a child on a woman over 30.

That in fact is a very accurate comparison with cousin "incest" (which is perfectly legal in most Western countries, anyways.) - about the same risk level.

Now, father-daughter (or son-mother)... that's a little more difficult.

Prohibitions on Incest seem to be universal (even for Indigenous Australians the ultimate insult was to accuse someone of sleeping with their mother) but the exact form of the prohibition - ie. which part of your family you don't under any circumstances have sex with - is quite varied and depends on alot of other, mostly cultural, factors.

And, as a too-general rule, the more primitive the culture, the wider the taboo. Up to the notion of "clan incest", meaning all members of the same clan are considered descended of the same common ancestor and therefore sexual relationships between them are forbidden.

As a would-be anthropologist I should give out to you about your use of the word "primitive".

But yeah what you are essentially getting at is correct (though I must say the Incest Taboo is not something I'm particularly strong on.) and shows that biological-rationalist explanations of it are incorrect. Damn Utiltarianism and its distortion of everything.

[Franzl]

Franzl whats your problem with religious people?   

You are reaching way too much to be such a intelligent person so it seems.

I have absolutely no problem with religious people. I myself am a believing Roman Catholic.

I DO have a problem with religion influencing politics. Big difference.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Keep the government out of the bedroom.

If you think that then surely you must defend non-consensual incest as well...

[minionofmidas]

As a would-be anthropologist I should give out to you about your use of the word "primitive".

Its usage here was intended as an insult to certain posters.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Not really... we're talking (semi-)rational taboos developped on insufficient information.

Keep the government out of the bedroom.

If you think that then surely you must defend non-consensual incest as well...

Damn literal Welshmen.

[Tetro Kornbluth]

@ Lewis:

Hey! I can condemn things I don't like If I want!!!1111

[Bono]

Incest is taboo not just in Christianity but in most religions and cultures around the world.  That impulsive instinct against incest has very good biological reasons around it.

The content of it is different however, and sometimes quite perverse to western eyes. To Invoke The Argonauts of the Western Pacific the people of Triobriand Islands off the coast of Papua New Guinea (c1915) practised a form of kinship whereby most contact between brother and sister was prohibited, where if the brother saw his sister so much as naked he was supposed to kill himself on the spot (In reality this wasn't always the case, it was the ideal) while on the other hand, the aunts.. I think maternal aunts, but don't quote me on that... of boys were meant to initiate them into sexual activity as if some kind of sexual tutor.

Prohibitions on Incest seem to be universal (even for Indigenous Australians the ultimate insult was to accuse someone of sleeping with their mother) but the exact form of the prohibition - ie. which part of your family you don't under any circumstances have sex with - is quite varied and depends on alot of other, mostly cultural, factors.

Biology here is an inadequate explaination. It takes a too rationalist view of human beings.

How does it take a rationalist view? I think it's irrationalism taken to the extreme, as is any form of "evolutionary psychology".


Either way, cousin/cousin is not incest and there should be absolutely no rules on it, and I don't know how anyone can justify it.

Closer of kin it's trickier, but I still think it should be legal, though there could be reproductive issues.

[Tetro Kornbluth]

Incest is taboo not just in Christianity but in most religions and cultures around the world.  That impulsive instinct against incest has very good biological reasons around it.

The content of it is different however, and sometimes quite perverse to western eyes. To Invoke The Argonauts of the Western Pacific the people of Triobriand Islands off the coast of Papua New Guinea (c1915) practised a form of kinship whereby most contact between brother and sister was prohibited, where if the brother saw his sister so much as naked he was supposed to kill himself on the spot (In reality this wasn't always the case, it was the ideal) while on the other hand, the aunts.. I think maternal aunts, but don't quote me on that... of boys were meant to initiate them into sexual activity as if some kind of sexual tutor.

Prohibitions on Incest seem to be universal (even for Indigenous Australians the ultimate insult was to accuse someone of sleeping with their mother) but the exact form of the prohibition - ie. which part of your family you don't under any circumstances have sex with - is quite varied and depends on alot of other, mostly cultural, factors.

Biology here is an inadequate explaination. It takes a too rationalist view of human beings.

How does it take a rationalist view? I think it's irrationalism taken to the extreme, as is any form of "evolutionary psychology".


Either way, cousin/cousin is not incest and there should be absolutely no rules on it, and I don't know how anyone can justify it.

Closer of kin it's trickier, but I still think it should be legal, though there could be reproductive issues.

Oh you and I agree. I probably should have written rationalist in inverted commas, I was merely attacking the common sense in popular circles but intellectually discredited idea that taboos relate to rational, intellectual impulses. Incest is seen as bad due to corrupting the gene pool, etc {Though in example I gave there, the Islands aren't even aware that sex causes reproduction}. That Idea and I hate Evolutionary Psychology and Sociobiology too.

[Earth]

Keep the government out of the bedroom.

If you think that then surely you must defend non-consensual incest as well...

How does one go from "keeping the government out of consensual relationships", to having to defend forced incest? It makes no sense.

The point is, government has no place in legislating consensual relationships. "Non-consensual" is just another term for forced, or rape.

[Meeker]

I would like to defend consensual incest being legal but a good idea.

[Marokai Backbeat]

I would like to defend consensual incest being legal but a good idea.

[Workers' Friend]

I would like to defend consensual incest being legal but a good idea.

You 2 are very disturbing.

[John Dibble]

Incest is taboo not just in Christianity but in most religions and cultures around the world.  That impulsive instinct against incest has very good biological reasons around it.

That's true of incest in the immediate family, though not for cousins. Cousin marriages have historically been quite common, and is still legal in most countries. Historically it comes from people not moving around much in the olden days, so people had limited mates to select from, and cousins tended to be close. Genetic risks are actually minimal provided that it isn't cousins only for multiple generations.

As for closer family, the repulsion to it tends to be at an instinctual level. This is the case in most other animals as well. It's probably an evolutionarily driven behavior.

[Countess Anya of the North Parish]

I would like to defend consensual incest being legal but a good idea.

You 2 are very disturbing.

They are testing there debate skills. lay off.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

Keep the government out of the bedroom.  Once it leaves the bedroom (marriage licenses, kids), I'm fine with it being illegal.

[Lunar]

Keep the government out of the bedroom.  Once it leaves the bedroom (marriage licenses, kids), I'm fine with it being illegal.

So, what should happen if the neighbors report that two siblings have six kids next door?

Foster family the kids and a fine?

[Earth]

Keep the government out of the bedroom.  Once it leaves the bedroom (marriage licenses, kids), I'm fine with it being illegal.

So, what should happen if the neighbors report that two siblings have six kids next door?

Foster family the kids and a fine?

Not necessarily. Only if they're in immediate danger, not simply because they're the product of incest. This mentality of biological regulation, and invasive laws are, for lack of a better word, horrifying.

[Tetro Kornbluth]

Incest is taboo not just in Christianity but in most religions and cultures around the world.  That impulsive instinct against incest has very good biological reasons around it.

That's true of incest in the immediate family, though not for cousins. Cousin marriages have historically been quite common, and is still legal in most countries. Historically it comes from people not moving around much in the olden days, so people had limited mates to select from, and cousins tended to be close. Genetic risks are actually minimal provided that it isn't cousins only for multiple generations.

As for closer family, the repulsion to it tends to be at an instinctual level. This is the case in most other animals as well. It's probably an evolutionarily driven behavior.

*Facepalm* Did you read what I posted below that?

[Lunar]

Keep the government out of the bedroom.  Once it leaves the bedroom (marriage licenses, kids), I'm fine with it being illegal.

So, what should happen if the neighbors report that two siblings have six kids next door?

Foster family the kids and a fine?

Not necessarily. Only if they're in immediate danger, not simply because they're the product of incest. This mentality of biological regulation, and invasive laws are, for lack of a better word, horrifying.

I mean, I don't support it.

Just trying to find out what Inks thinks.