If Allen never utters those faithful words....

[DownWithTheLeft]

....and goes on to win his race by about 10-15 points not only keeping his seat but keeping the GOP in control of the senate:

Does Allen with the 2008 nomination?
If Allen enters, but loses, who wins the nomination?
If McCain is the nominee who wins Virginia?

[paul718]

I think McCain never enters the race, and Allen wins the nomination.

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

Well, Huckabee still would've won Iowa.  But what would've happened with Romney?

[paul718]

Well, Huckabee still would've won Iowa. 

You don't think Allen could've won?  Didn't Huckabee take a lead in the polls only a short time before the cauci?

[Sensei]

I don't know how George Allen praying has anything to do with this.

[paul718]

I see Allen as sort of an alternate Thompson.  It would only be a matter of time before some kind of stupid comment.

Oh.  I never really knew that much about him.  I just assume that, had he beaten Webb and ran for President, he would've been the "establishment candidate".

[Queen Mum Inks.LWC]

Well, Huckabee still would've won Iowa. 

You don't think Allen could've won?  Didn't Huckabee take a lead in the polls only a short time before the cauci?

I think he could've.  I don't think he would've.

I see Allen as sort of an alternate Thompson.  It would only be a matter of time before some kind of stupid comment.

Agreed.

I don't know how George Allen praying has anything to do with this.

I think Down meant fateful.

[Mr. Morden]

Well, Huckabee still would've won Iowa. 

You don't think Allen could've won?  Didn't Huckabee take a lead in the polls only a short time before the cauci?

He took the lead in late November, about five weeks before the caucus.  Of course, he'd been gaining in the polls for some time before that:



And I agree with the proposition that, if Allen had been in the race and been seen as a credible candidate as late as spring 2007, Thompson never would have run.  Everyone else still would have run.

[paul718]

You must be logged in to read this quote.

He took the lead in late November, about five weeks before the caucus.  Of course, he'd been gaining in the polls for some time before that...

Ah.  My mistake.

And I agree with the proposition that, if Allen had been in the race and been seen as a credible candidate as late as spring 2007, Thompson never would have run.  Everyone else still would have run.

Am I correct in my assumption that Allen would've been the establishment candidate?  That might've deterred other Senators from running, no?  I think he would've polled well in Iowa and might've been able to hold that lead.  It seemed as though Huckabee was a last resort for the typical Iowa Republican. 

[Mr. Morden]

Am I correct in my assumption that Allen would've been the establishment candidate?  That might've deterred other Senators from running, no?

He would have been as much the "establishment candidate" as Thompson was in the spring of 2007 (before Thompson actually entered the race).  That is, the kind of candidate who the GOP establishment was comfortable with, but not one who the establishment would have unanimously rallied around like they did around Bush in 2000 or Dole in 1996.

80% of becoming the "establishment candidate" is the establishment concluding that you're inevitably going to win the nomination anyway, so they'd better rally around you in order to be in your good graces.  I don't think Allen would have been that kind of frontrunner (if he ever would have been the frontrunner at all).

[Lief 🗽]

He would have lost by more than McCain. Also he probably would have ended up calling Obama a macaca anyway. Barack and macaque even rhyme. He just wouldn't have been able to resist the urge.

[Associate Justice PiT]

He would have lost by more than McCain. Also he probably would have ended up calling Obama a macaca anyway. Barack and macaque even rhyme. He just wouldn't have been able to resist the urge.

     Heh, good point. If Allen called Obama macaca, he would have made McCain's performance look good.

[pragmatic liberal]

The whole "macaca" incident revealed all kinds of skeletons from Allen's closet: reports that he had been involved in racist intimidation in high school, numerous former associates (even including Larry Sabato!) attesting to Allen having made racist remarks or used the N-word in his youth.

Perhaps had Allen early on acknowledged having made "racially insensitive" comments in his youth, he could have gotten away with it, though it would still have been a severe handicap. However, given how incompetently he handled the fallout of that in real life, I really don't think he would have handled it any better in a presidential campaign. Seriously, I think it's quite possible Allen would have imploded well before Iowa.

(And Allen was already a flawed candidate even without the Macaca comments or his history of racism -- he was, superficially, a Bush clone who was already losing popularity in his home state. By mid-'07, it would have been clear he'd have been headed to a big loss if he were the nominee and a lot of the Establishment would have bolted.)

[Gustaf]

McCain would definitely have run anyway. I'm not sure how Allen would have done, but I'm inclined to think he would not have won the nomination. I'm pretty sure he would have made it easier for McCain to win New Hampshire, anyway.

[minionofmidas]

Allen wouldn't have won by 15 points. He wouldn't have lost of course, but this was Virginia in 2006. Far too many newly partisan Democrats for this partisan a Republican to win a blowout. That race would have tightened pretty much no matter what.

Allen running for President is quite likely. Him winning the nomination less so. Thompson presumably wouldn't have run, and Allen would have taken part of Romney's non-Mormon vote. Does that keep him viable for long enough to prevent the stampede of establishment conservatives to McCain? Perhaps. Probably not.

He would have lost by more than McCain. Also he probably would have ended up calling Obama a macaca anyway. Barack and macaque even rhyme. He just wouldn't have been able to resist the urge.

     Heh, good point. If Allen called Obama macaca, he would have made McCain's performance look good.

Everybody who considered running for the 2008 Republican nomination would have made McCain's performance look good. McCain's performance was good. Allen wouldn't have needed to call the Democratic nominee names in order to go down Goldwater (or at least, say, Willkie) style.

[Lincoln Republican]

Nothing would have prevented McCain from seeking his life long dream of becoming President, regardless of who ever else may have been a candidate for the GOP nomination.

Under the circumstances as described in this scenario, Allen would have been a good possibility for VP.

[© tweed]

DWDL has this nasty habit of hearing cliches through spoken word, and then spitting them out incorrectly when remembering phonetically and attempting to transcribe into text.

[King]

DWDL has this nasty habit of hearing cliches through spoken word, and then spitting them out incorrectly when remembering phonetically and attempting to transcribe into text.

You know what they say, it takes two to tan a goat.

But that's like adding incense to the inquiry.

[Iosif]

DWDL has this nasty habit of hearing cliches through spoken word, and then spitting them out incorrectly when remembering phonetically and attempting to transcribe into text.

He's probably dyslexic.

[DownWithTheLeft]

DWDL has this nasty habit of hearing cliches through spoken word, and then spitting them out incorrectly when remembering phonetically and attempting to transcribe into text.

Yeah, there was the whole "mute" point thing LOL

[King]

DWDL has this nasty habit of hearing cliches through spoken word, and then spitting them out incorrectly when remembering phonetically and attempting to transcribe into text.

Jay Leno would like to make an on-topic addition to this thread using a BRTD favorite word "cul-de-sac:"