JFK Lives
       |           

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
March 29, 2024, 05:08:36 AM
News: Election Simulator 2.0 Released. Senate/Gubernatorial maps, proportional electoral votes, and more - Read more

  Talk Elections
  Presidential Elections - Analysis and Discussion
  Election What-ifs? (Moderator: Dereich)
  JFK Lives
« previous next »
Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 7 8 9 ... 22
Author Topic: JFK Lives  (Read 160288 times)
Robespierre's Jaw
Senator Conor Flynn
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 8,129
Political Matrix
E: -4.90, S: -8.35

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #75 on: January 23, 2009, 08:43:31 PM »

Thanks for clearing that up Smiley.

I must admit, my queries regarding the friendship between Senators McGovern and Humphrey was purely based on the McGovern/Humphrey relationship seen during the 1972 Democratic primaries, in particular during the time between June and August of that year. However, a bit of anti-Humphrey bias, inspired by the writings of Hunter S. Thompson did also provoke me to ask such questions.

Also, why did President Tower lose the typical Republican strongholds of Vermont, New Hampshire and Maine to Senator Humphrey? Surely Governor Maddox's campaign wouldn't have had such drastic consequences in the results of those three states. After all, Governor Wallaces' RL 1968 campaign failed to receive more than four percent in those states in question.
Logged
Kaine for Senate '18
benconstine
Atlas Superstar
*****
Posts: 30,329
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #76 on: January 23, 2009, 08:47:50 PM »

Thanks for clearing that up Smiley.

I must admit, my queries regarding the friendship between Senators McGovern and Humphrey was purely based on the McGovern/Humphrey relationship seen during the 1972 Democratic primaries, in particular during the time between June and August of that year. However, a bit of anti-Humphrey bias, inspired by the writings of Hunter S. Thompson did also provoke me to ask such questions.

Also, why did President Tower lose the typical Republican strongholds of Vermont, New Hampshire and Maine to Senator Humphrey? Surely Governor Maddox's campaign wouldn't have had such drastic consequences in the results of those three states. After all, Governor Wallaces' RL 1968 campaign failed to receive more than four percent in those states in question.

Indeed, Governor Maddox had very little support; 3.8% in VT, 4.4% in NH, and 3.3% in ME.  Those three states were the three closest in the country: 0.29% in NH, 0.86% in VT, and 1.08% in ME.  The Agnew scandal caused a major backlash against Tower in those states, and it appears that there was a large number of Republicans voting for HHH at the Presidential level, but staying GOP at the Congressional level.
Logged
Historico
Jr. Member
***
Posts: 981
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #77 on: January 23, 2009, 08:50:42 PM »

Interesting so, with Humphrey actually in control of the Party machine and regains his working class base clinches the Democratic Nomination and the Presidency. I thinks it very plausible seeing how close he actually came to beating Nixon in OTL with so much going against his candidacy. Itll be interesting to see what effects a Neo-Great Society and probably a Nixonesque situation in Vietnam will have on the economy? seeing as how badly it drove up inflation on OTL...Also even worse however, America still might go through Three Presidents during the '70's if HHH is able to win a second term only to succumb to bladder cancer. Itll be intersting to see where you take this.
Logged
Hash
Hashemite
Moderators
Atlas Superstar
*****
Posts: 32,403
Colombia


WWW Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #78 on: January 23, 2009, 09:12:12 PM »

What's going on in Canada? France? Australia? Germany?
Logged
Kaine for Senate '18
benconstine
Atlas Superstar
*****
Posts: 30,329
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #79 on: January 24, 2009, 05:23:55 PM »

Canada: On the whole, Canada remains unchanged.  Canada did send a small number of troops to help in Vietnam, although they were removed in 1968.

France:  As in RL, de Gaulle is reelected President in 1965, although he only needs one round of voting to do so.  He does not order the removal of foreign troops, and keeps France within the military organization of NATO.  De Gaulle is much more supportive of US efforts in Vietnam, and sends troops to help the US in 1966, although he removes them again in 1970.  Although May, 1968 does occur to some extent, there is none of the violent rioting, and de Gaulle does not hold elections until February, 1969, where he gains a major victory.  As of 1972, de Gaulle is still in power, although his health seems to be failing somewhat.

Australia:  In the 1966 General Elections, Harold Holt scores a major victory, and is reelected; his party wins again in 1970, and elections are scheduled for March, 1973.

Germany:  East Germany, in 1973, is basically the same.  West Germany, likewise, is mostly unchanged, although Kiesinger's "Grand Coalition" is still in effect, although it is unlikely the Coalition will stand much longer, and Willy Brandt appears primed to be the next Prime Minister.
Logged
Hash
Hashemite
Moderators
Atlas Superstar
*****
Posts: 32,403
Colombia


WWW Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #80 on: January 24, 2009, 05:35:43 PM »

Canada: On the whole, Canada remains unchanged.  Canada did send a small number of troops to help in Vietnam, although they were removed in 1968.

Thanks.

France:  As in RL, de Gaulle is reelected President in 1965, although he only needs one round of voting to do so.  He does not order the removal of foreign troops, and keeps France within the military organization of NATO.  De Gaulle is much more supportive of US efforts in Vietnam, and sends troops to help the US in 1966, although he removes them again in 1970.  Although May, 1968 does occur to some extent, there is none of the violent rioting, and de Gaulle does not hold elections until February, 1969, where he gains a major victory.  As of 1972, de Gaulle is still in power, although his health seems to be failing somewhat.

1. One round elections would never have occurred. Never. Especially under de Gaulle. It's set in stone.
2. If there is no election in 1968, why does de Gaulle dissolve in '69? Does he seek a larger majority than the one in the original 3rd legislature?
3. I assume the 1969 referendum passes, instead of failing.
4. Why would de Gaulle seek re-election in 1972 under poor health? Or are the 1972 elections not up yet?

Australia:  In the 1966 General Elections, Harold Holt scores a major victory, and is reelected; his party wins again in 1970, and elections are scheduled for March, 1973.

Germany:  East Germany, in 1973, is basically the same.  West Germany, likewise, is mostly unchanged, although Kiesinger's "Grand Coalition" is still in effect, although it is unlikely the Coalition will stand much longer, and Willy Brandt appears primed to be the next Prime Minister.

Fair enough.
Logged
Kaine for Senate '18
benconstine
Atlas Superstar
*****
Posts: 30,329
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #81 on: January 24, 2009, 05:40:26 PM »

France:  As in RL, de Gaulle is reelected President in 1965, although he only needs one round of voting to do so.  He does not order the removal of foreign troops, and keeps France within the military organization of NATO.  De Gaulle is much more supportive of US efforts in Vietnam, and sends troops to help the US in 1966, although he removes them again in 1970.  Although May, 1968 does occur to some extent, there is none of the violent rioting, and de Gaulle does not hold elections until February, 1969, where he gains a major victory.  As of 1972, de Gaulle is still in power, although his health seems to be failing somewhat.

1. One round elections would never have occurred. Never. Especially under de Gaulle. It's set in stone.
2. If there is no election in 1968, why does de Gaulle dissolve in '69? Does he seek a larger majority than the one in the original 3rd legislature?
3. I assume the 1969 referendum passes, instead of failing.
4. Why would de Gaulle seek re-election in 1972 under poor health? Or are the 1972 elections not up yet?

1.  It was very close; de Gaulle barely got through.
2.  de Gaulle tries to get a larger majority, yes.
3.  It does indeed.
4.  He does seek reelection, and wins.  By "health is failing", I don't mean that he cannot run the government; he still seems in good enough health to serve, but he is 82 years old, and so is a little slower than he used to be.
Logged
Hash
Hashemite
Moderators
Atlas Superstar
*****
Posts: 32,403
Colombia


WWW Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #82 on: January 24, 2009, 05:54:11 PM »

1. Ah. Misunderstood you. I thought you were saying the electoral system required one round only and not a runoff.
Logged
Robespierre's Jaw
Senator Conor Flynn
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 8,129
Political Matrix
E: -4.90, S: -8.35

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #83 on: January 24, 2009, 07:17:55 PM »

Australia:  In the 1966 General Elections, Harold Holt scores a major victory, and is reelected; his party wins again in 1970, and elections are scheduled for March, 1973.

Fair enough, however, I believe that if Holt's Government was re-elected in 1970 (that's of course if he returned from his swim at Cheviot Beach on December 17) that his Government would have succumbed to internal scandals, such as the infamous VIP affair seen in RL, and he would have either resigned the Prime Ministership or be removed as leader after the 1970 election.

As always, I do have some questions regarding your timeline. What is Gough Whitlam doing as of 1972, and what are the prospects of the ALP being elected at the next election? and who is Prime Minister Harold Holt's likely successor as Prime Minister, if he and his Liberals lose in 1973?
Logged
PBrunsel
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 9,537


WWW Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #84 on: January 24, 2009, 07:39:39 PM »

Ben,

Always a good read, this timeline. Smiley
Logged
Kaine for Senate '18
benconstine
Atlas Superstar
*****
Posts: 30,329
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #85 on: January 24, 2009, 09:04:36 PM »

Fair enough, however, I believe that if Holt's Government was re-elected in 1970 (that's of course if he returned from his swim at Cheviot Beach on December 17) that his Government would have succumbed to internal scandals, such as the infamous VIP affair seen in RL, and he would have either resigned the Prime Ministership or be removed as leader after the 1970 election.

Possible; I'm not an expert on Australia, of course Smiley

As always, I do have some questions regarding your timeline. What is Gough Whitlam doing as of 1972, and what are the prospects of the ALP being elected at the next election? and who is Prime Minister Harold Holt's likely successor as Prime Minister, if he and his Liberals lose in 1973?

Gough Whitlam is currently leader of the opposition, and appears set lead the ALP to victory in the 1973 elections.  If the ALP does win, then Whitlam is set to be the next Prime Minister.

Ben,

Always a good read, this timeline. Smiley

Thank you Smiley
Logged
Psychic Octopus
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 8,948
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #86 on: January 25, 2009, 10:33:11 PM »

Excellent.... excellent...

Who is Governor of Massachusetts right now?
Logged
Kaine for Senate '18
benconstine
Atlas Superstar
*****
Posts: 30,329
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #87 on: January 25, 2009, 10:38:29 PM »

Excellent.... excellent...

Who is Governor of Massachusetts right now?

Francis W. Sargent, as in real life.
Logged
Psychic Octopus
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 8,948
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #88 on: January 25, 2009, 11:01:33 PM »

Excellent.... excellent...

Who is Governor of Massachusetts right now?

Francis W. Sargent, as in real life.

somehow I thought that. It's too soon for RFK....

You know, my grandfather keeps saying that if John Jr. hadn't died, he'd be the 44th President of the United States.

Logged
Historico
Jr. Member
***
Posts: 981
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #89 on: January 25, 2009, 11:02:59 PM »

Hmm...After rereading TTL's I don't think HHH adminstration wont stray to far from Nixon's atleast Domestically. In OTL Nixon ruled fairley liberal to have a free hand in foreign affairs...So under Humphrey will probably get the same propasals that Nixon had except that he may have the clout to actually pass Universal Health Care and a strong Apollo like Alt-energy program. However will Humphrey possibly bring in Volcker earlier ITTL? cuz that would really help with Inflation. But if not, I can definatley see a moderate to liberal Republican winning in '80...POTUS Brooke anyone?
Logged
Psychic Octopus
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 8,948
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #90 on: January 25, 2009, 11:52:22 PM »

What is JFK doing right now, in the Greek Islands on a sailboat I presume...
Logged
Kaine for Senate '18
benconstine
Atlas Superstar
*****
Posts: 30,329
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #91 on: January 26, 2009, 05:56:34 PM »

What is JFK doing right now, in the Greek Islands on a sailboat I presume...

Actually, JFK is teaching political science at Harvard.
Logged
Psychic Octopus
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 8,948
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #92 on: January 26, 2009, 10:39:27 PM »

What is JFK doing right now, in the Greek Islands on a sailboat I presume...

Actually, JFK is teaching political science at Harvard.

Hmmmm... you know my grandfather met JFK once, he asked him whathe was going to do after his presidency and that is what he said.
Logged
Kaine for Senate '18
benconstine
Atlas Superstar
*****
Posts: 30,329
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #93 on: January 27, 2009, 01:13:19 PM »

What is JFK doing right now, in the Greek Islands on a sailboat I presume...

Actually, JFK is teaching political science at Harvard.

Hmmmm... you know my grandfather met JFK once, he asked him whathe was going to do after his presidency and that is what he said.

Interesting; my grandfather met JFK a number of times, also.
Logged
Kaine for Senate '18
benconstine
Atlas Superstar
*****
Posts: 30,329
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #94 on: January 27, 2009, 04:27:47 PM »


The First Term of Hubert H. Humphrey

“It was once said that the moral test of Government is how that Government treats those who are in the dawn of life, the children; those who are in the twilight of life, the elderly; and those who are in the shadows of life, the sick, the needy and the handicapped.  Over the last few years, our Government has failed that test; and I intend for us to once again pass it.”  Humphrey announces that, once his entire Cabinet is confirmed, he will send to Congress an ambitious legislative package, that will help America pass the test again.  His Cabinet, when finally confirmed, seems well acquainted with the task, being made up of experts in each field.

Secretary of State: Edmund Muskie (D-ME)
Secretary of Treasury: Henry H. Fowler (D-VA)
Secretary of Defense: James R. Schlesinger (R-IL)
Attorney General: Edward H. Levi (R-IL)
Secretary of the Interior: Stewart Udall (D-AZ)
Secretary of Agriculture: Orville Freeman (D-MN)
Secretary of Commerce: Lawrence Fox (D-VA)
Secretary of Labor: Lane Kirkland (D-SC)
Secretary of Health, Education, and Welfare: Joseph A. Califano, Jr. (D-NY)
Secretary of Housing and Urban Development: Patricia Roberts Harris (D-IL)
Secretary of Transportation: Howard Cannon (D-NV)

Despite his large majorities in Congress, Humphrey expects to have a difficult time getting his legislation through, largely due to the opposition of Senator Richard B. Russell of Georgia.  However, on February 4, Senator Russell dies in Washington, DC.  Humphrey is one of two people selected to eulogize Russell; the other is his friend, John Stennis.  In the eulogy, Humphrey calls Russell, “The epitome of what it means to be a United States Senator.  To replace Russell, Georgia Governor Jimmy Carter appoints Sam Nunn, a well known supporter of Humphrey.

Following Russell’s funeral, Humphrey sends the first major piece of legislation to Congress.  Called the Labor Freedom Act of 1973, it would repeal the Taft-Hartley Act, passed in 1947.  Humphrey had made a campaign promise to various unions to ask for the Bill, and it was written shortly after his election victory.

On March 7, to the surprise of many, the LFA passes the House, 222-213, and is sent to the Senate.  Harrison A. Williams, Jr. (D-NJ), chairman of the Labor Committee, promises to get the legislation quickly through, and on March 29, it is presented to the Senate.  On April 12, the Senate votes, and the Bill is defeated, 50-49.  However, Senator Jacob Javits (R-NY), who had originally voted against the Bill, decides to change his vote, allowing the legislation to pass.  It is rushed to President Humphrey, and, surrounded by Labor leaders, he signs the LFA on April 13.

On April 25, former President Harry Truman dies peacefully in his sleep.  President Humphrey attends the funeral along with 19 Senators, 27 Congressman, every member of the Cabinet, former Presidents Kennedy and Tower, and former Vice Presidents Nixon, Agnew and Smathers; also in attendance is a visibly ill French President Charles de Gaulle, although he insists afterwards that he is in fine health.

On May 3, in a speech to Congress, President Humphrey asks for passage of a comprehensive universal health care bill that would provide health care for all Americans.  The government would pay for between 25-90% of the person’s health care costs, depending on the person’s yearly salary.

The legislation faces intense opposition from conservatives, who claim that the bill will put the country on the road to socialism.  Senator Roman Hruska (R-NE) claims that the bill would, “Rename Washington DC as Moscow.”  Senator Strom Thurmond (R-SC) calls it, “An abominable mix of socialism and government handouts.”  However, the legislation does have some supporters; Senator Edward Kennedy (D-MA) says, “This is not socialism, it is not communism; it is making sure that every American has his G-d-given right to have health care!”

On June 20, the Senate votes on the health care bill; the vote ties at 50-50, and Vice President Hearnes votes for the bill, passing it 51-50 in the most dramatic way.  In the House, the legislation enjoys stronger support, and on July 12, after much debate, the bill passes, 235-200, and is signed into law by President Humphrey on July 14.

That same day, Charles de Gaulle dies in Paris, of a stroke.  Humphrey attends the funeral, along with former Vice President Richard Nixon.

On September 12, in a speech to Congress, President Humphrey announces that, starting January 1, 1974, he will begin withdrawing troops from Vietnam.  The announcement is met with loud applause from a majority of the members of Congress, although some remain noticeably silent.  Senator Henry Jackson (D-WA) calls it “A poor decision, with victory so near,” and Senator John Stennis (D-MS) says that, “The President is making a decision based on the polls, not the facts.”

On January 27, in his State of the Union Address, Humphrey says that, “We are well on our way to passing the great moral test.  We are not there yet, though, and it will take much more effort.”

On February 5, Justice William O. Douglas resigns.  To replace him, President Humphrey nominates Spottswood William Robinson III to replace him.  Robinson is confirmed without controversy, becoming the second African-American on the Court.

In March, Congress begins debate on the Privacy Act of 1974.  Written by Senator Frank Church (D-ID), the Act would require each Government agency have in place an administrative and physical security system to prevent the unauthorized release of personal records.  Strongly supported by both Houses of Congress, it is signed by the President on May 10.

By June 10, the President reports that half of US troops have withdrawn from Vietnam.  He says that, at the current rate, all troops would be out by January of 1975.

The Congressional Elections

With President Humphrey’s approval ratings in the high 50’s to low 60’s, the Democrats make even more gains, adding on to their sky high majorities, reaching their highest numbers since the Great Depression.

Senate Results

Democrats: 72 (+6)
Republicans: 28 (-6)

House Results
Democrats: 320 (+32)
Republicans: 115 (-32)
Logged
Robespierre's Jaw
Senator Conor Flynn
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 8,129
Political Matrix
E: -4.90, S: -8.35

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #95 on: January 27, 2009, 04:47:45 PM »

Oh noes! Its falling off the wagon once more. Where are all of the foreign events and pictures which you said you would include more of? by my calculations I have only found two, and potentially the possibility of a third. Whilst its good to cover domestic affairs, which you do well, I believe, its integral to an excellent timeline to have a good balance between both foreign and domestic events. Just thought I'd lend a helping hand.
Logged
Kaine for Senate '18
benconstine
Atlas Superstar
*****
Posts: 30,329
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #96 on: January 27, 2009, 04:50:49 PM »

Oh noes! Its falling off the wagon once more. Where are all of the foreign events and pictures which you said you would include more of? by my calculations I have only found two, and potentially the possibility of a third. Whilst its good to cover domestic affairs, which you do well, I believe, its integral to an excellent timeline to have a good balance between both foreign and domestic events. Just thought I'd lend a helping hand.

I know, know; I meant for this update to have more picture, but just forgot; the next update will have more international events, as well as pictures.
Logged
Hash
Hashemite
Moderators
Atlas Superstar
*****
Posts: 32,403
Colombia


WWW Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #97 on: January 27, 2009, 05:11:01 PM »

Who is President of the Senate in France? Alain Poher? Gaston Monnerville?

Monnerville as interim President would be cool. Black guy as President in the '70s France, even for a few months?
Logged
Historico
Jr. Member
***
Posts: 981
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #98 on: January 27, 2009, 07:29:52 PM »

Who is President of the Senate in France? Alain Poher? Gaston Monnerville?

Monnerville as interim President would be cool. Black guy as President in the '70s France, even for a few months?

Gaston would be cool as interim President, and It would be interesting to see him elected to a full term as President in his own right. It might get the US used to the idea of a Black President alot faster than in otl. Anyways, great installment Ben smart move pulling in some of the better components from OTL Johnson and Carter's cabinents although im suprised he didn't give Scoop State or Defense. Itll be interesting to see what other 2nd Great Society goals HHH can get passed and I look forward to it.
Logged
Hash
Hashemite
Moderators
Atlas Superstar
*****
Posts: 32,403
Colombia


WWW Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #99 on: January 27, 2009, 07:31:01 PM »

Who is President of the Senate in France? Alain Poher? Gaston Monnerville?

Monnerville as interim President would be cool. Black guy as President in the '70s France, even for a few months?

Gaston would be cool as interim President, and It would be interesting to see him elected to a full term as President in his own right. It might get the US used to the idea of a Black President alot faster than in otl. Anyways, great installment Ben smart move pulling in some of the better components from OTL Johnson and Carter's cabinents although im suprised he didn't give Scoop State or Defense. Itll be interesting to see what other 2nd Great Society goals HHH can get passed and I look forward to it.

France wouldn't have elected a black man as President in 1972.
Logged
Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 7 8 9 ... 22  
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Terms of Service - DMCA Agent and Policy - Privacy Policy and Cookies

Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines

Page created in 0.114 seconds with 12 queries.