JFK Lives

[Historico]

Interesting and well detailed installment on the ATL Passage of the Civil Rights Act for TTL. It does sound like more of a backlash might develop in favor of Goldwater in the election(He'll still probably loose but not as bad as in OTL). Assuming that Goldwater is the GOP Nominee, do him an JFK make good on there series of town hall debates that is rumored they had planned in OTL? This, added with information being released about JFK's other women and the medical issues might tip the election in Goldwater's favor. Keep it comming

[Historico]

Great Installment on the election, I think the results were very probable, and i think we can say a GOP victory in 68. Does Reagan still give "The Speech" in TTL? Can't wait to see what you have in store for us soon...Keep it comming

[Historico]

So when can we expect the next installment?

[Historico]

Interesting situation, you have arising here...I am assuming we don't see as much Anti-war and Civil Rights protests did in otl? Hmm, the Westmoreland firing does seem as if it's going to have some major ripples down the road...the general might take a swing in at the GOP nomination in TTL? If George Smathers does become the nominee, he may very well be able to win back some of the Southern States in a Carteresque faction, assuming Scoop's fighting Democrats manage to be kept in line. I like where TTL is going and Keep it comming.

[Historico]

Great last two installment...I would think Westmoreland's third party run would split the conservative vote esp in the South with Tower, enough so to possibly shift the election to the house? I guess not, It is interesting to see what position the Democrats will take in OTL esp if Support the war Tower in OTL does a Johnsonesque escalation of the war. Perhaps this will allow former Attorney General Bobby Kennedy(Does he still go for the New York Senate seat?) or Mass Senator Teddy Kennedy to run an "We told you so" campaign in '72 or '76 as leader of the growing peace wing? Also picking Agnew is a powder keg waiting to happen, so itll be interesting to see who he nominates if Agnew resigns. Btw what is Tower's stance going to be on the Negative Income Tax and can he bring up enough clout in Congress to get it passed?

[Historico]

Great last two installment...I would think Westmoreland's third party run would split the conservative vote esp in the South with Tower, enough so to possibly shift the election to the house? I guess not, It is interesting to see what position the Democrats will take in OTL esp if Support the war Tower in OTL does a Johnsonesque escalation of the war. Perhaps this will allow former Attorney General Bobby Kennedy(Does he still go for the New York Senate seat?) or Mass Senator Teddy Kennedy to run an "We told you so" campaign in '72 or '76 as leader of the growing peace wing? Also picking Agnew is a powder keg waiting to happen, so itll be interesting to see who he nominates if Agnew resigns. Btw what is Tower's stance going to be on the Negative Income Tax and can he bring up enough clout in Congress to get it passed?

Any answers for some of the questions I posted a few day's ago? and how's the next installment coming along? lol

[Historico]

Hmm...It seems someone had to suffer the fate of LBJ ITTL, I just hoped it wouldn't be another Texan lol An interesting twist since we don't have a JFK assasination, would be for Arthur Bremer to actually succeed in killing the president or even causing him paryalsis in a manner like George Wallace. That might boost the GOP's chances of winning the '72 election, if not I can see Ted Kennedy(Assuming there was no Chappaquidick ITTL),George Mcgovern Eugene McCarthy, or even Shirley Chisholm taking over as the Dove wing of the Democrats gain control of the Party. It will be interesting to see where you take this...

[Historico]

Ah I see, at least there is a pool of candidates for the Democrats...I wonder if any of the Moderate Republicans will run against Tower in an insurgency campaign.?Hmm decisions,decisions lol

[Historico]

So when can we expect the next installment?

[Historico]

Im thinking that, the Democrats focus for the 72 election will be a successfull withdrawl from Vietnam, that being said I think Jackson will be able to clinch the nomination...and in a fight to regain working-class whites but to also sure up Black Voters unsure of his anti-busing stance, The Fighting democrat picks Kennedy. That way, you also get a balance on Age as well as Jackson was 60 compared to Teddy's 40. Although they probably don't get anything in the South, they may be able to cobble 270 electoral votes everwhere elese.

[Historico]

By all means, speculate.  I have absolutely no problem with speculating, unless I already told you.

When does the timeline end, exactly, if it is present day I have a feeling about who it is.

I'll probably end it with the 2008 elections.

As Far as speculation goes...For the 1972 Democratic Nominee's im still leaning toward a Scoop/Teddy Ticket(It just makes sense all around) but since TTL is ripe for an asssasination...So Arthur Bremer might be able to take out John Tower(He wanted to get Nixon but was unsuccessful, then he settled on Wallace). So the GOP nominee could be....

As far as who becomes POTUS on January 20th 2009 im going to say either John John or Caroline(Both of whom might get interested in Politics earlier than in OTL, with their real dad being around...so those butterflies could be interesting.)

[Historico]

Hmm...I wasn't aware that Tower was Pro-choice in otl...So not only will Tower have to fend off a strong pool of Democratic candidates...He is going to have to face off against both the Conservative and Moderate wings of his own party over Roe V. Wade and Vietnam. He only has two choices that I forsee, unless some miracle happens in Vietnam, is to either withdraw his name from nomination like otl LBJ or go down like otl Carter....Keep it comming!!!

[Historico]

Hmm...It will be interesting to see where the true conservatives fall, especially if Abortion is taken out of the sails of the movement...I forsee a couple of Third Party runs, untill they blend back into the Republicans and Abortion seases to be an issue.

[Historico]

Interesting so, with Humphrey actually in control of the Party machine and regains his working class base clinches the Democratic Nomination and the Presidency. I thinks it very plausible seeing how close he actually came to beating Nixon in OTL with so much going against his candidacy. Itll be interesting to see what effects a Neo-Great Society and probably a Nixonesque situation in Vietnam will have on the economy? seeing as how badly it drove up inflation on OTL...Also even worse however, America still might go through Three Presidents during the '70's if HHH is able to win a second term only to succumb to bladder cancer. Itll be intersting to see where you take this.

[Historico]

Hmm...After rereading TTL's I don't think HHH adminstration wont stray to far from Nixon's atleast Domestically. In OTL Nixon ruled fairley liberal to have a free hand in foreign affairs...So under Humphrey will probably get the same propasals that Nixon had except that he may have the clout to actually pass Universal Health Care and a strong Apollo like Alt-energy program. However will Humphrey possibly bring in Volcker earlier ITTL? cuz that would really help with Inflation. But if not, I can definatley see a moderate to liberal Republican winning in '80...POTUS Brooke anyone?

[Historico]

Who is President of the Senate in France? Alain Poher? Gaston Monnerville?

Monnerville as interim President would be cool. Black guy as President in the '70s France, even for a few months?

Gaston would be cool as interim President, and It would be interesting to see him elected to a full term as President in his own right. It might get the US used to the idea of a Black President alot faster than in otl. Anyways, great installment Ben smart move pulling in some of the better components from OTL Johnson and Carter's cabinents although im suprised he didn't give Scoop State or Defense. Itll be interesting to see what other 2nd Great Society goals HHH can get passed and I look forward to it.

[Historico]

When is the next update?

Sorry, I was busy all weekend.  Thursday, at the latest.

Looking forward to the next Installment, I am wondering however what Is Daniel Patrick Moynihan doing in your tl? Might he be working with HHH to try to get some type of Universal Health Care passed like he did with Nixon in otl?

[Historico]

Wow, Excellent Installment bc, I was not expecting HHH to dye from an aortic aneurysim...was it a condidtion he suffered from in otl? Or is it a complication from the bladder cancer that he had? Well atleast he was able to get some progressive legislation done in the form of the NEA and the NGI(Which will help alot of the Vietnam veterans get back on their feet and might lead to a larger generation X). After doing some Research, It seems like Hearns was really the best choice to succeed HHH, as he was really pogressive on Public Education, Civil Rights, Traffic Saftey, and the enviorment. He should be a shoe in for the '76 election. But who nows it depends if Ronny runs or not.

[Historico]

Sorry about the lack of an update, guys.  The next one will probably come on Friday.

President Hearnes!!!President Hearnes!!!President Hearnes!!!lol

[Historico]

Sorry about not having an update; I've been going through a severe case of writer's block.  I hope to have an update by this weekend.

So how's the next installment coming along?

[Historico]

The First Term of Warren Hearnes

Three hours after President Humphrey’s death, President Hearnes speaks to the American people live on national television.  “My fellow Americans, it is with great sadness that I speak to you tonight.  Three hours ago, President Hubert Horatio Humphrey died of an aortic aneurysm at his desk in the Oval Office.  In my first official act as President, I am declaring tomorrow to be a day of mourning for all Americans.  I ask you all to keep the Humphrey family in your prayers.  Thank you, and good night.”

Three days later, Humphrey’s funeral is held in Minneapolis.  He is eulogized by former President Kennedy, who calls Humphrey, “One of the greatest men in our country’s history.”  The former President is widely mourned, and all throughout the country, impromptu memorials are held for the President.


Former Vice President Nixon at President Humphrey's Funeral

In the days following Humphrey’s funeral, little is heard from the White House.  President Hearnes schedules a speech to a joint session of Congress on August 14, three days after the funeral.

In the speech, Hearnes says, “We must continue!”  He announces an ambitious set of programs, designed to fulfill Humphrey’s dream of an America marked by equality and prosperity.  The speech is well received, and Hearnes’ approval rating starts out at a whopping 85%.

When Congress returns on September 4, they are presented with the first major piece of legislation: the Public Works Act of 1975.  The PWA, originally written by the President, would create a large number of new jobs for people across the country, by establishing new schools, and other government facilities throughout the country.

The PWA, though, faces stiff opposition from conservatives, claiming that the PWA would spend taxpayer money on unnecessary programs.  Conservatives, led by Senators Strom Thurmond (R-SC), and Herman Talmadge (D-GA) begin a lengthy filibuster.


Senator Herman Talmadge (D-GA) filibustering the PWA

For almost a month, the filibuster continues, until, on October 2, by a vote of 71-29, the Senate grants cloture.  Three days later, the Senate passes the PWA, 68-32.

In the House, the PWA faces little opposition, and passes easily, 406-28, on October 17.  It is signed by the President on October 20.

On November 1, the State of Israel holds elections for the Knesset, resulting in a victory for the Likud Party.  For the first time, the left-wing lost an election, with the Alignment’s share of the vote reduced by more than a third.  The Israeli right-wing took power for the first time since Israeli independence in 1948. The left’s spectacular loss of power was attributed to two major causes; allegations of corruption and nepotism (such as the Dollar Account affair and the Yadlin affair), and a perceived favoring of Ashkenazi (European) Jews over Mizrahi Jews (from North Africa and the Middle East).  Likud’s Menachem Begin is elected Prime Minister.


Prime Minister Begin speaking to the Knesset.

On November 12, President Hearnes leaves for his first international tour as President.  His first stop is in London, where he meets with Prime Minister Wilson, who appears likely to lose his status once again to Conservative Leader Margaret Thatcher in the upcoming elections, scheduled for 12 January 1976.

From London, Hearnes goes to Spain, where he meets with an ailing Francisco Franco.  He travels then to Paris, meeting with French President Alain Poher, and ends in West Germany, where he gives a speech at the Berlin Wall.

Upon returning to the United States on November 26, President Hearnes gives a speech to the United Nations, where he says that, “We have a collective responsibility to help spread democracy, and ensure that all peoples are completely free.”  Following the speech, Hearnes deplores the oppressive regimes of men such as Idi Amin in Uganda, and the apartheid reign of the National Party in South Africa.

On December 1, the President announces that he will seek reelection.  Three days later, Congress passes the Ethics in Government Act, which required all federal officials to submit financial documents every year, and all officials seeking elected office to submit a complete and total list of everyone who donated over $50 to their campaign.

On January 12, the United Kingdom holds elections, and throw out Prime Minister Wilson and the Labour Party.  Conservative Margaret Thatcher becomes the country’s first female Prime Minister.

In his State of the Union on January 24, President Hearnes asks Congress to pass what he calls the “Equality Package.”  The package contains three major pieces of legislation: the Pregnancy Discrimination Act, the Americans with Disabilities Act, and the Native Discrimination Act of 1976.

The Pregnancy Discrimination Act, written by Senator Mark Hatfield (R-OR), the PDA would prohibit companies from discriminating against pregnant women when hiring, as well as prevent companies from firing women for being pregnant, or denying them employment upon return from maternity leave.  The PDA faces surprisingly little opposition from conservatives, and is signed by the President on February 14.

The ADA also faces little opposition, despite its expansive nature.  Written by Senator Kennedy, the ADA would prohibit, under certain circumstances, discrimination based on disability, similar to the Civil Rights Act of 1964.  The ADA defined disability as “a physical or mental impairment that substantially limits a major life activity.”  The determination of whether any particular condition is considered a disability would be made on a case by case basis. Certain specific conditions were excluded as disabilities, such as current substance abuse and visual impairment which is correctable by prescription lenses.  The ADA passes the Senate on March 9, 89-10, and the House on March 24, 340-94, and is signed by the President on March 26.

The final piece of the package, the Native Discrimination Act of 1976, prohibits companies from discriminating against people based on their Native American ancestry.  Written by Senator Barry Goldwater (R-AZ), the NDA faces opposition from Southerners such as Jesse Helms (R-NC), who had sat out the two previous battles due to the fact that they were un-winnable.  The NDA, Helms says, would lead to a slew of people improperly claiming Native ancestry in order to get jobs.  Despite Helms’ concern, the NDA passes on April 20, and is signed by the President three days later.

With all his legislative priorities taken care of, President Hearnes begins the long and arduous task of preparing for his reelection campaign.

Wow that was definatley worth the wait...Hmm It seems President Hearnes isnt taking it slow with his legaslitive agenda. Is his approval rating still floating around 85% or have the've taken a hit? Is the economy in worse shape Stagflation wise with the onset of more Government programs? How's Nasa doing? and I cant wait to see who the GOP runs against Hearnes for the '76 election. Keep it comming

[Historico]

Hmm...So Hearnes really isn't that voulnerable in the '76 election.With that being said, 1976 might be two soon in the voters eyes after the disastorus Tower Presidency, and the growing conservative movement probably takes the backburner. Reagan may run for the nomination but he might not win it. I think moderates take the cake with leading candidates, being Nelson Rockefeller, Robert Dole, and Gerald Ford. I think Rocky ITTL might finally get his shot at the Presidency

[Historico]

Rocky will not run in 1976.

Aww, man...I was really pulling for him too...Shucks, now Im going to throw my support behind another moderate...Massachusetts Senator Edward Brooke. Btw, Deeds If you wan't to talk about some of the things that are causing writer's block with the TL feel free to hit me up via pm or in this thread. I find that healthy discussion on issues when writing an indepth Timeline really help solve the curse of writer's block, and may be helpful in your case. That way you don't exhaust you mind in trying to come up with scenario's lol.

[Historico]

Wow, I was expecting the next installment so soon, and it did not disappoint. Nice to see Brooke coming so close to clinching the nomination. Hmm, it is sad to see Ronnie go the way off Goldwater/Mcgovern ITTL, but It will give the moderates a good shot of winning the election in 1980, if things go as half as bad as they did in otl. Im suprised though that President Hearnes wouldn't an African American as a running mate to sow up the base after Brooke ran so well. If he was looking for someone with foreign policy experience, Hearnes could go after 4 star General Daniel "Chappie" James Jr.  If not Chappie then Andrew Young, Barbara Jordan, Shrley Chisholm and others are all good choices. Can't wait to see how the next four years turn out...Keep it comming

[Historico]

Like your previous timeline, this has jumped the shark once more.

I don't understand why you say this timeline has "jumped the shark" It's one of the detailed and interesting timelines on the board. Just because ben likes to focus on American Legislation rather than foriegn affairs, is just a preference of writing style. I find that adding to much detail of foriegn policy rather than domestic can slow the timelines progress down somewhat. So you just have to appreciate the feat ben is trying to tackle here, and if you don't like it...change the channel