Thanks a lot Israel!

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aEyw2y9Fm_qc&refer=home

[danny]

The way oil prices are going seems so stupid. When OPEC reduces its output, the prices continue to fall, but when fighting breaks out between Israel and Gaza, both of whom don't produce oil and have no meaningful oil reserves, the price jumps.

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

The way oil prices are going seems so stupid. When OPEC reduces its output, the prices continue to fall, but when fighting breaks out between Israel and Gaza, both of whom don't produce oil and have no meaningful oil reserves, the price jumps.

not stupid at all.  OPEC cutting active supply simply adds to the cushion of shut-in supply, so the cuts don't really impact overall supply.  But the conflict in Israel and Gaza could spill over to the oil producing regions of the middle east and thus destroy both active and shut-in supply.

[dead0man]

You meant "Thanks a lot Hamas" right?  And again, shouldn't those that care about the enviroment WANT higher gas prices?  It's retarded to be pro-enviroment and bitch about high gas prices.

[GMantis]

You meant "Thanks a lot Hamas" right?  And again, shouldn't those that care about the enviroment WANT higher gas prices?  It's retarded to be pro-enviroment and bitch about high gas prices.

Hamas was firing rockets all the time and the prices was fell. It was only after Israel oppened this new campaign that prices started to rise.

[dead0man]

So when the neighbor kid throws rocks at your window everyday for months, you've asked your neighbors for help, they don't care.  The cops won't come.  Finally, you get sick of it and go outside and kick the little kid's ass.

It's then your fault the kid's crying woke the neighborhood?

[GMantis]

So when the neighbor kid throws rocks at your window everyday for months, you've asked your neighbors for help, they don't care.  The cops won't come.  Finally, you get sick of it and go outside and kick the little kid's ass.

It's then your fault the kid's crying woke the neighborhood?

It's the complete disproportionality of the Israeli attacks that have heightened tension in the region.

[dead0man]

Which is odd because the region is normally very pro Israel.

[Silent Hunter]

Which is odd because the region is normally very pro Israel.

No, it isn't. Most Arab states don't have diplomatic relations with it.

[Nhoj]

Which is odd because the region is normally very pro Israel.

No, it isn't. Most Arab states don't have diplomatic relations with it.

im guessing dead0man was using sarcasm.

[Matt Damon™]

Oh Israel. -_-

[Хahar 🤔]

The Gaza is completely unmanageable.

The whole "let's all go to the Middle East" thing itself is as unmanageable as having Jews move to Birobidzhan.

[DownWithTheLeft]

I wish Iran would make good on their promise soon

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Obviously Israel has sometimes made rather poor decisions, but somehow I don't think it matters so much if the national gas average creeps up to $1.75.

[??????????]

So when the neighbor kid throws rocks at your window everyday for months, you've asked your neighbors for help, they don't care.  The cops won't come.  Finally, you get sick of it and go outside and kick the little kid's ass.

It's then your fault the kid's crying woke the neighborhood?

It's the complete disproportionality of the Israeli attacks that have heightened tension in the region.

What a stupid retort. Sorry, but it is.

[GMantis]

So when the neighbor kid throws rocks at your window everyday for months, you've asked your neighbors for help, they don't care.  The cops won't come.  Finally, you get sick of it and go outside and kick the little kid's ass.

It's then your fault the kid's crying woke the neighborhood?

It's the complete disproportionality of the Israeli attacks that have heightened tension in the region.

What a stupid retort. Sorry, but it is.

Sorry, but when you kill hundreds in a day in answer of attacks that have killed less than 20 over years, it it disproportionate. And even it isn't, it's regarded as such by all other countries in the Middle East, which is the reason for the increase in tension.

[Yamor]

The Israeli government is primarily (and actually, only) responsible for the safety of it's own citizens. As is the government of any country. If the Israeli government believes this method is the way to protect their own citizens, they have to go ahead with it, disproportionate or not. I'm British, and I'd expect my government to protect it's citizens in this manner too, if necessery.

[Јas]

The Israeli government is primarily (and actually, only) responsible for the safety of it's own citizens. As is the government of any country. If the Israeli government believes this method is the way to protect their own citizens, they have to go ahead with it, disproportionate or not.

The Israeli Government  (and indeed every national Government) has responsibilities under international law which extend to all persons effected by their actions.

I'm British, and I'd expect my government to protect it's citizens in this manner too, if necessery.

And yet, the British Government found that the solution to one particular set of terrorists wasn't through inflicting mass civilian casualties and fatalities on the streets of Belfast.

[Yamor]

Because citizens in belfast were as british as the victims of the terrorists. Anyway, it's completely different, since the British had control in Northern Ireland, and policed it, unlike Israel in Gaza.
Your point about israel having responsibility for non-israelis affected by their actions is true, but not at the expense of the safety of their own subjects.

[dead0man]

Sorry, but when you kill hundreds in a day in answer of attacks that have killed less than 20 over years, it it disproportionate. And even it isn't, it's regarded as such by all other countries in the Middle East, which is the reason for the increase in tension.

What is the virtue of a proportionate response?

[Yamor]

I agree with deadOman. Israel are not looking to 'punish' the Palestinians, in which case disproportionate could come into it. Israel is trying to protect it's citizens, and the government believes that this response is the best way to protect it's citizens, disproportionate or not.

[GMantis]

Sorry, but when you kill hundreds in a day in answer of attacks that have killed less than 20 over years, it it disproportionate. And even it isn't, it's regarded as such by all other countries in the Middle East, which is the reason for the increase in tension.

What is the virtue of a proportionate response?

Well, not killing more people than neccessary, not inflaming tensionsin the entire Middle East. Small and insignificant, but better than the alternative.

[Јas]

Because citizens in belfast were as british as the victims of the terrorists. Anyway, it's completely different, since the British had control in Northern Ireland, and policed it, unlike Israel in Gaza.

Of course, the situations are completely different, but nonetheless parallels can be drawn and lessons can be learned. And as I've stated already Governments have responsibilities to persons affected by their actions, whatever their nationality. Many living in Belfast had and have Irish citizenship, not British (though of course they may have been so entitled). The Government's responsibility not to cause undue injury was the same to both. The reasons the British Government didn't pound Belfast wasn't because of the citizenship of the probable victims.

I'd also dispute that though the British may have policed NI, they did not have real control over large parts of NI for many years. I'd also disagree that Israel doesn't exercise a significant amount of control over Gaza today.
 

Your point about israel having responsibility for non-israelis affected by their actions is true, but not at the expense of the safety of their own subjects.

Indeed. Nobody disputes the right of all nations to defend themselves. Nobody disputes the right of Israel to retaliate against Hamas. However, the rights of citizenry not be targeted are well established and cannot be justified in the name of self-defence.

[Yamor]

They are not targetting the civilian population - the UN estimates only 25% of the casualties are civilians. Considering all strikes are from the air, and considering how densely populated Gaza is, I'd say it pretty much shows that Israel are definitely not targetting the civilians, although of course a huge number are sadly getting killed and injured. Also, remember it is a tactic of these terrorist groups to deliberately hide among the civilian population.
Considering Northern Ireland, I think you missed my main point somewhat. I meant that it would not make sense for the UK to bomb part of it's own country because of terrorism there. Like the UK wouldn't bomb, I don't know, Manchester, for example, because some terrorists come from there. And anyway, like I'm sure you'd agree, the situation in Northern Ireland was so completely different, that it wouldn't have made sense to just bomb the place.

[Јas]

They are not targetting the civilian population - the UN estimates only 25% of the casualties are civilians.

My understanding is that the UN has estimates on the number of women/children casualties, but that they are not prepared as yet to say how many of the male casualties they believe are also civilians. There's not enough information yet to determine just how many civilians have been injured/killed, but we can presumably take the 62 women/children fatalities confirmed by the UN as of last Monday to be the starting point of such a calculation.

Considering all strikes are from the air, and considering how densely populated Gaza is, I'd say it pretty much shows that Israel are definitely not targetting the civilians, although of course a huge number are sadly getting killed and injured.

If Israeli operatives fire weapons in the knowledge that Palistianian civilians will be injured/killed, then yes, they are targeting those people.

Also, remember it is a tactic of these terrorist groups to deliberately hide among the civilian population.

Indeed. It doesn't though, IMO, justify targeting the civilians in order to take out the terrorist.

Considering Northern Ireland, I think you missed my main point somewhat. I meant that it would not make sense for the UK to bomb part of it's own country because of terrorism there. Like the UK wouldn't bomb, I don't know, Manchester, for example, because some terrorists come from there. And anyway, like I'm sure you'd agree, the situation in Northern Ireland was so completely different, that it wouldn't have made sense to just bomb the place.

Of course it made no sense for the British Government to bomb Belfast.
Similarly the same reasons apply as to why it makes no sense for Israel to bomb Gaza.