Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
March 24, 2019, 09:01:23 pm
HomePredMockPollEVCalcAFEWIKIHelpLogin Register
News: Please delete your old personal messages.

+  Atlas Forum
|-+  General Politics
| |-+  Political Geography & Demographics (Moderator: muon2)
| | |-+  what happened to vermont?
« previous next »
Pages: [1] Print
Author Topic: what happened to vermont?  (Read 10153 times)
WalterMitty
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 21,600


Political Matrix
E: 1.68, S: -2.26

View Profile Show only this user's posts in this thread
« on: February 24, 2004, 05:26:45 pm »

once vermont was one of the most republican states in the union, now, it's the complete opposite.

maine, connecticut, oregon, and new jersey also fall into that category.

any ideas?  i have some, but i wish to hear some other opinions.
Logged
JohnFKennedy
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 7,470


View Profile Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #1 on: February 24, 2004, 05:35:22 pm »

not sure, there are only 3 democrats who have won Vermont since 1892 though, most recently, Gore, Clinton twice and LBJ
Logged
Beet
Moderators
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 24,190


View Profile Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #2 on: February 24, 2004, 08:21:36 pm »

The end of the Bull Moose Republicans and their replacement by the Goldwater wing.
Logged
elcorazon
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 3,215


View Profile Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #3 on: February 24, 2004, 11:34:30 pm »

I think the parties have changed.  It used to be there were many social liberals & conservatives in both parties and the main differences were economic.  At that time many of the eastern states, like VT & NJ were fairly conservative.  As the Republicans have moved so far to the right on social issues, those states have drifted to the democrats, who have changed quite a bit on economic issues anyway.  That's one reason I think NH is becoming a democratic state and will go for Kerry or Edwards this November.
Logged
12th Doctor
supersoulty
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 20,659
Ukraine


View Profile Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #4 on: February 24, 2004, 11:59:52 pm »

I think the parties have changed.  It used to be there were many social liberals & conservatives in both parties and the main differences were economic.  At that time many of the eastern states, like VT & NJ were fairly conservative.  As the Republicans have moved so far to the right on social issues, those states have drifted to the democrats, who have changed quite a bit on economic issues anyway.  That's one reason I think NH is becoming a democratic state and will go for Kerry or Edwards this November.

I tend to aggree with you.  Although I don't think the Republicans are that far right on social issues or that NH will definatly becomeing a Democratic state.
Logged
Grofaz
Newbie
*
Posts: 4


View Profile Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #5 on: February 25, 2004, 02:42:50 am »

Funny, Vermont crossed my mind today, too. Alf Landon retuned to Kansas and named his two horses Maine and Vermont after the only two states that he had won.  Now, Vermont is home to Ben and Jerry's and Phish.

The crossover came, I think, 25 years ago. Vermont  walked the plank for Jerry Ford and yet, were it not for John Anderson, Carter would have won the state in 1980.
Now that's seismic.

The Vermont census is interesting:

Year      Population   Percent Increase

1960     389,811    
1970     444,732      14.1
1980     511,456      15.0
1990     562,758      10.0
2001     612,308        8.8

What happened to Vermont? Flooded with young boomer democrats  from neighbouring blue states, that's what. The good Dr. Dean is a typical example.
Logged
dunn
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 3,067


View Profile Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #6 on: February 25, 2004, 05:06:40 am »

Funny, Vermont crossed my mind today, too. Alf Landon retuned to Kansas and named his two horses Maine and Vermont after the only two states that he had won.  Now, Vermont is home to Ben and Jerry's and Phish.

The crossover came, I think, 25 years ago. Vermont  walked the plank for Jerry Ford and yet, were it not for John Anderson, Carter would have won the state in 1980.
Now that's seismic.

The Vermont census is interesting:

Year      Population   Percent Increase

1960     389,811    
1970     444,732      14.1
1980     511,456      15.0
1990     562,758      10.0
2001     612,308        8.8

What happened to Vermont? Flooded with young boomer democrats  from neighbouring blue states, that's what. The good Dr. Dean is a typical example.

Vt pop growth 1980-90 was 19th and just above the national avarage
Vt pop growth 1990-00 was 20th and just below the national
Logged
minionofmidas - supplemental forum account
Lewis Trondheim
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 58,291
India


View Profile Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #7 on: February 25, 2004, 06:28:39 am »

What happened to Vermont? Flooded with young boomer democrats  from neighbouring blue states, that's what. The good Dr. Dean is a typical example.
In fact, if you take a look at growth and birthplace statistics, the reason New Hampshire is not like Vermont and Maine is precisely that is what flooded by young boomer Republicans from neighboring Democratic states, while Vt and Me are much more like they always used to be, but have been deserted by their party.
Logged
WalterMitty
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 21,600


Political Matrix
E: 1.68, S: -2.26

View Profile Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #8 on: February 25, 2004, 09:07:01 am »

wha tis the majority opinion here:

did vermont become more democratic because...

a.) the gop keeps moving to the right, which has turned off the more liberal 'yankee republicans'

b.) the influx of more liberal people from places like nyc.  (i do recall some kind of article about 'taking over vermont'...i think it appeared in playboy in the 60s?)

c.) all of the above.
Logged
Bleeding heart conservative, HTMLdon
htmldon
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 9,008
United States


Political Matrix
E: 1.03, S: -2.26

View Profile Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #9 on: February 25, 2004, 09:18:59 am »

It's a little bit of both, actually.  There is clearly a "North New York" influence in the western part of the state, while the eastern part of the state remains rather Republican.
Logged
elcorazon
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 3,215


View Profile Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #10 on: February 25, 2004, 10:05:38 am »

wha tis the majority opinion here:

did vermont become more democratic because...

a.) the gop keeps moving to the right, which has turned off the more liberal 'yankee republicans'

b.) the influx of more liberal people from places like nyc.  (i do recall some kind of article about 'taking over vermont'...i think it appeared in playboy in the 60s?)

c.) all of the above.

I vote a, although there may be a bit of b as well.  I think the entire northeast region has been abandoned by the republicans, who have chosen to move to the right on social issues to appeal to the conservative democrats in the south and the conservative republicans in the west.  Electorally this was smart for the Republicans, especially in the 70's and early 80's when the Democrats were clearly the majority party affiliation.  As this changes, it may not be so smart to alienate so many states, which could easily go to the Republicans were it not for the extreme right wing views in areas like gay marriage, abortion, school prayer, etc.  

I have a feeling that some of the strong Republican states may start swinging to the Democrats as the population increases (FL, GA, AZ, NV, NC).  
Logged
Filuwaúrdjan
Realpolitik
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 62,302
United Kingdom


View Profile Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #11 on: February 25, 2004, 11:39:22 am »

I like to think of Vermont as an extension of Upstate New York... and it's important to remember that Vermont is not a Democrat state at all... the balance between Democrats and Yankee Republicans is actually very tight.
What's tipped Vermont towards the Dems recently is the Progressive Party (which, believe it or not, actually has some members in the State House) which is strong around Burlington.
Logged
Filuwaúrdjan
Realpolitik
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 62,302
United Kingdom


View Profile Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #12 on: February 25, 2004, 11:43:46 am »

I have a feeling that some of the strong Republican states may start swinging to the Democrats as the population increases (FL, GA, AZ, NV, NC).  

Agree on GA and NC, disagree on FL... and not sure on AZ and NV
Logged
elcorazon
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 3,215


View Profile Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #13 on: February 25, 2004, 12:17:46 pm »

FL used to be staunchly republican, no?
Logged
Filuwaúrdjan
Realpolitik
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 62,302
United Kingdom


View Profile Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #14 on: February 25, 2004, 01:18:11 pm »

I thought you meant: swing towards the Dems from now...
Florida has swung away from the GOP since their heyday in the 1980's (although the conservative suburbs continuned to grow, there was a sudden growth in liberal suburbs)
Logged
tweed
Miamiu1027
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 36,685
United States


View Profile Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #15 on: February 25, 2004, 05:06:07 pm »

vermont has a moderate Republican Governor, still, and elected Jeffords as a republican to the Senate a few times.
Logged
zachman
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 2,101


View Profile Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #16 on: February 25, 2004, 05:12:13 pm »

I just visited Vermont and it seemed to be the most tranquill quaint state (spare Hawaii). Its been a shame that Vermont has been so picked on recently, it is really a perfect place. Vermonteers care that a candidate is an independent, a social liberal and a fiscal conservative. Thats the perfect set of views.
Logged
tweed
Miamiu1027
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 36,685
United States


View Profile Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #17 on: February 25, 2004, 05:28:20 pm »

I just visited Vermont and it seemed to be the most tranquill quaint state (spare Hawaii). Its been a shame that Vermont has been so picked on recently, it is really a perfect place. Vermonteers care that a candidate is an independent, a social liberal and a fiscal conservative. Thats the perfect set of views.

Howard Dean fits that bill Smiley
Logged
minionofmidas - supplemental forum account
Lewis Trondheim
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 58,291
India


View Profile Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #18 on: February 26, 2004, 06:41:42 am »

wha tis the majority opinion here:

did vermont become more democratic because...

a.) the gop keeps moving to the right, which has turned off the more liberal 'yankee republicans'

b.) the influx of more liberal people from places like nyc.  (i do recall some kind of article about 'taking over vermont'...i think it appeared in playboy in the 60s?)

c.) all of the above.

a) is actually a slight misinterpretation of what I meant, though it's a perfectly understandable misundersanding...
It's not so much that the GOP has moved to the right, more that the left-right paradigm has changed (is now more defined much more in social than in economic terms, for example) and this has cast the Liberal Republicans of old into the Democratic party. The opposite has happened to many Democrats in other parts of the country.

But while there is of course immigration into Vermont and Maine from New York and Southern New England, it is much less pronounced than in New Hampshire, and this fact is the main reason behind New Hampshire's more conservative recent record. I stand by that statement.
Logged
opebo
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 47,089


View Profile Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #19 on: February 26, 2004, 12:14:34 pm »

wha tis the majority opinion here:

did vermont become more democratic because...

a.) the gop keeps moving to the right, which has turned off the more liberal 'yankee republicans'

b.) the influx of more liberal people from places like nyc.  (i do recall some kind of article about 'taking over vermont'...i think it appeared in playboy in the 60s?)

c.) all of the above.

a) is actually a slight misinterpretation of what I meant, though it's a perfectly understandable misundersanding...
It's not so much that the GOP has moved to the right, more that the left-right paradigm has changed (is now more defined much more in social than in economic terms, for example) and this has cast the Liberal Republicans of old into the Democratic party. The opposite has happened to many Democrats in other parts of the country.

But while there is of course immigration into Vermont and Maine from New York and Southern New England, it is much less pronounced than in New Hampshire, and this fact is the main reason behind New Hampshire's more conservative recent record. I stand by that statement.


I think you're exactly right about the majority of escapees from MA, CT, RI, and NY being conservative relative to those who remain.  This relates to my point about Nevada and Arizona - I don't think Democrats should get their hopes up too much there because most of the immigrants to those states from California and the East will tend to be Republicans.  Escaping bad government and a bad community by changing states or just moving to the Suburbs is a very right-wing thing to do.
Logged
minionofmidas - supplemental forum account
Lewis Trondheim
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 58,291
India


View Profile Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #20 on: February 27, 2004, 04:09:46 am »

wha tis the majority opinion here:

did vermont become more democratic because...

a.) the gop keeps moving to the right, which has turned off the more liberal 'yankee republicans'

b.) the influx of more liberal people from places like nyc.  (i do recall some kind of article about 'taking over vermont'...i think it appeared in playboy in the 60s?)

c.) all of the above.

a) is actually a slight misinterpretation of what I meant, though it's a perfectly understandable misundersanding...
It's not so much that the GOP has moved to the right, more that the left-right paradigm has changed (is now more defined much more in social than in economic terms, for example) and this has cast the Liberal Republicans of old into the Democratic party. The opposite has happened to many Democrats in other parts of the country.

But while there is of course immigration into Vermont and Maine from New York and Southern New England, it is much less pronounced than in New Hampshire, and this fact is the main reason behind New Hampshire's more conservative recent record. I stand by that statement.


I think you're exactly right about the majority of escapees from MA, CT, RI, and NY being conservative relative to those who remain.  This relates to my point about Nevada and Arizona - I don't think Democrats should get their hopes up too much there because most of the immigrants to those states from California and the East will tend to be Republicans.  Escaping bad government and a bad community by changing states or just moving to the Suburbs is a very right-wing thing to do.

jein, opebo, jein.
For one thing, that's only one factor of Suburb growth.
Companies too flee to the suburbs to pay less taxes and to further wreck the places they leave behind. Then workers move out to spend less time and pay less on transport. Hardly a right-wing thing.
For another thing, many people behave like right-wingers on issues that effect themselves but consider themselves, and vote as, liberals.
Thirdly, rich moderate Suburbans had a perfectly right-wing, egoistical reason to vote Democratic in the last election, which may help explain why so many of them did: GUN CONTROL. (Gore and Bush broke even among the suburban 60% of America, a remarkable achievement for a Democrat compared with their record in the 80s and 90s. Meanwhile Dems lost big time in the countryside, at least partly on the same issue.)
Logged
Nym90
nym90
Modadmin
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 16,311
United States


Political Matrix
E: -5.55, S: -2.96

P P

View Profile Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #21 on: February 27, 2004, 05:27:58 am »

People move out to the suburbs because housing is too expensive closer in to the city...however, they will pay more in transportation costs, both in terms of time and money. Also it is much more expensive for governments to pay for all of the extra infrastructure that is necessary to handle the sprawl.

Crime is also something that often drives people out to the suburbs, but this can be solved by hiring more officers. Creates jobs, too.

There also need to be tax incentives to keep businesses in the main city rather than fleeing to the suburbs. Although land is more expensive, stores can be encouraged through tax incentives to locate nearer or in downtown.
Logged
Pages: [1] Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length
Logout

Terms of Service

Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines