Question about Islam (user search)
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Author Topic: Question about Islam  (Read 5414 times)
anvi
anvikshiki
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« on: January 18, 2009, 11:25:10 AM »

Islamic teachings, drawn from the Qur'an and Hadith, consider Islam to have been the religion given to the first human beings (Adam and Eve) and passed down through Abraham, Moses, all the prophets of the Hebrew Bible (as well as some others who preached about Allah to "all nations") and Jesus.  There are numerous stories about the Hebrew prophets, Adam, Abraham and Moses in the Qur'an which are largely the same as the stroies from the Hebrew and Christian bibles, but with some significant differences.  In any case, Muslims think that these religions were historically distorted in many ways, in the Jewish tradition mostly by rabbinical interpretation and in the Christian by theological councils.  Still, the Musilm tradition considers Judaism and Christianity "religions of the book," which means that their God is the one true God who sent them genuine prophets, and so Judaism and Chrsitianity are supposed to be held in particularly high regard by Muslims, and in many traditions of Islam this is why Muslims are allowed to intermarry with Jews and Christians.

So, the short answer to your question is that Muslims believe that Adam, Abraham, Moses and the prophets, including Jesus, were prophets of Islam, and that's why the bus signs you are talking about claim them to have belonged to the Islamic tradition.
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anvi
anvikshiki
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« Reply #1 on: February 08, 2009, 07:28:34 AM »

Islamic teachings, drawn from the Qur'an and Hadith, consider Islam to have been the religion given to the first human beings (Adam and Eve) and passed down through Abraham, Moses, all the prophets of the Hebrew Bible (as well as some others who preached about Allah to "all nations") and Jesus.  There are numerous stories about the Hebrew prophets, Adam, Abraham and Moses in the Qur'an which are largely the same as the stroies from the Hebrew and Christian bibles, but with some significant differences.  In any case, Muslims think that these religions were historically distorted in many ways, in the Jewish tradition mostly by rabbinical interpretation and in the Christian by theological councils.

well, if that were the case, then why is there no written trace of Islam prior to 600AD?


For the same reason there is no written trace of Chrstianity before 50 AD and no written trace of Judaism before about 500 BC ect. ect., and yet Christianity claims that it was incipiantly alive in the Hebrew scriptures and Judaism would claim that the words of the Torah were eternal long before they were written.  For Muslims, what Jews considered Judaism and Christians considered Christianity was actually Islam, only inperfectly transmitted, just as Christians believe Judaism was incipiantly Christian although unfulfilled until Jesus, and Judaism accounts for a unfolding of revelation through the patriarchs to Moses.  For these religions, there is believed to be a continuity of religious faith through preceding traditions.

It's true that Muslims do not consider Jesus to have been God but merely one of the preeminent prophets.  They believe a good bit about him that Christians believe as well, that he was born of a virgin, that he taught and healed, and that he will preside with God over the day of final judgment.  Arab Christians do call God "Allah," with the word being merely a generic word for God (a cognate of the Hebrew El or Elohim). 

Thanks for the correction in detail on the intermarriage issue.  My bad--should have been clearer.
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anvi
anvikshiki
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« Reply #2 on: February 09, 2009, 10:34:40 AM »

why is there no written trace of Islam prior to 600AD?

For the same reason there is no written trace of Chrstianity before 50 AD and no written trace of Judaism before about 500 BC ect. ect

huh?

First, Christianity accepts the Old Testament, so Christianity wasn't made up out of thin air, and the New Testament was written by 1st and 2nd generation Christians.

Second, both the Old and New Testament are historically accounted for within recorded human history.

Not so with Islam, which was invented and lacks any prior recorded record, and the historical facts of the Holy Land refute the historical claims of the Koran.

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For Muslims, what Jews considered Judaism and Christians considered Christianity was actually Islam, only inperfectly transmitted, just as Christians believe Judaism was incipiantly Christian although unfulfilled until Jesus

check your facts, they are wrong.

Jews and Christians disagree about the interpretation of the Old Testament.  That is TOTALLY different from Islam inventing a totally different and contrary set of scripture with a different set of historical claims.

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Who cares what Islam accepts about Jesus Christ - without belief in the crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus Christ, which Islam denies, any claimed linkage to Christianity is simply a charade.



Huh? indeed.  Christianity only accepts the Hebrew scriptures on the precondition that they comprehensively be given a Christian interpretation.  Of what siginficance is the fact that "the New Testament was written by 1st and 2nd generation Christians" when the Qur'an was written by 1st and 2nd generation Muslims?  All religions had a history of scriptural composition such that there was a time before their scriptures were written, and that apples to all three of the traditions we are talking about.  And, you think the New Testament was "historically accounted for within recorded human history" but the Qur'an is not?  This means that the Qur'an was known to no one in recorded human history?  When you are talking about "the historical facts of the Holy Land" refuting the Qur'an. you'd best be careful, because professional historians and archeologists (as opposed to religious fundamentalists) don't see any confirmation of the New Testament or even any confirmation of the existence of Christianity outside the texts of the New Testament at all until the second century, and have even identified a number of outright historical fabrications in the New Testament.   

My facts are not wrong in the slightest.  They are only "wrong" from the point of view of a fundamentalist Christian who thinks only one interpretation of one collection of books in all of human history tells us anything about history.  And furthermore, your charge against Islam with inventing a whole new set of scriptures with a whole new set of historical claims is precisely what Jews would say about Christians regarding the New Testament. 

If your only reply to any other religious tradition is "who cares?" then it can be said to you also.  So, who cares about what Christianity accepts about Jesus Christ either?  Your belief in salvation through Christ is a matter of faith and not a matter of fact, for if it were a fact, it would not require faith at all.  But the belief of Muslims that salvation is through God is a matter of faith also.   Facts don't vindicate either believer, they don't justify either believer. 

This is the last time I'm going to waste my time responding to your posts.  I've learned at least that lesson.
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anvi
anvikshiki
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« Reply #3 on: February 10, 2009, 04:41:31 AM »

jmfcst,

And I apologize for my tone.

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