will a true moderate be a serious contender for the gop nomination?
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  will a true moderate be a serious contender for the gop nomination?
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Author Topic: will a true moderate be a serious contender for the gop nomination?  (Read 11412 times)
WalterMitty
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« on: February 03, 2009, 08:58:33 AM »

unfortunately, probably not.
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norse_loveseth
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« Reply #1 on: February 03, 2009, 10:22:36 AM »

Not sure if this term applies, but we may get a MINO... (Moderate in name only) for the GOP.
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Bleeding heart conservative, HTMLdon
htmldon
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« Reply #2 on: February 03, 2009, 10:28:36 AM »

Rudy was a serious contender, it just didn't work out.
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WalterMitty
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« Reply #3 on: February 03, 2009, 10:33:27 AM »

Rudy was a serious contender, it just didn't work out.

he competed in one state. i dont know if that counts as 'serious'.
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realisticidealist
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« Reply #4 on: February 03, 2009, 10:50:10 AM »

Not sure if this term applies, but we may get a MINO... (Moderate in name only) for the GOP.

That is essentially what McCain was this year...
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Stranger in a strange land
strangeland
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« Reply #5 on: February 03, 2009, 11:29:20 AM »

Rudy was a serious contender, it just didn't work out.

he competed in one state. i dont know if that counts as 'serious'.

I would also take issue with the contention that he was a moderate. Moderate Hero, maybe, but not a true moderate.
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ChrisFromNJ
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« Reply #6 on: February 03, 2009, 11:34:21 AM »

Not sure if this term applies, but we may get a MINO... (Moderate in name only) for the GOP.

That is essentially what McCain was this year...

McCain has never been a moderate.
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Fmr. Pres. Duke
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« Reply #7 on: February 03, 2009, 11:36:28 AM »

Pro-choice, pro-gay right, pro-gun control Republican isn't a moderate for you? I know he was extremely hawkish, but otherwise, he was a moderate Republican. Fiscally conservative and socially liberal. He just had an awful campaign strategy and the primary schedule wasn't a help either. If McCain hadn't run, he may have won New Hampshire assuming Romney still imploded.
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Stranger in a strange land
strangeland
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« Reply #8 on: February 03, 2009, 11:41:37 AM »
« Edited: February 03, 2009, 12:17:16 PM by Stranger in a strange land »

Pro-choice, pro-gay right, pro-gun control Republican isn't a moderate for you? I know he was extremely hawkish, but otherwise, he was a moderate Republican. Fiscally conservative and socially liberal. He just had an awful campaign strategy and the primary schedule wasn't a help either. If McCain hadn't run, he may have won New Hampshire assuming Romney still imploded.

he was an uber-hawk and supported attacking Iran, torture, and warrantless wiretaps. If anything, Giuliani was the closest thing to a pure neoconservative in high-level elected office. Gun control is a fake issue, and abortion is for the most part also, because Roe v Wade is never going to be overturned. Unfortunately, in contemporary American political discourse, the labels "conservative" and "liberal" are largely determined by two or three social issues.
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Bacon King
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« Reply #9 on: February 03, 2009, 12:04:26 PM »

Re: Guiliani: someone who supports the police over an innocent man who'd been shot by the police, as general principle, can't honestly be called something less than a "nutjob conservative" on crime issues.
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realisticidealist
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« Reply #10 on: February 03, 2009, 12:29:26 PM »
« Edited: February 03, 2009, 12:32:02 PM by Former WRP General Secretary realisticidealist »

Not sure if this term applies, but we may get a MINO... (Moderate in name only) for the GOP.

That is essentially what McCain was this year...

McCain has never been a moderate.

Perhaps, but the media had been always labeled him as a 'maverick' or someone who has bucked his party. He was labeled as a moderate, but it was just a name, hence the term MINO.

Pro-choice, pro-gay right, pro-gun control Republican isn't a moderate for you? I know he was extremely hawkish, but otherwise, he was a moderate Republican. Fiscally conservative and socially liberal. He just had an awful campaign strategy and the primary schedule wasn't a help either. If McCain hadn't run, he may have won New Hampshire assuming Romney still imploded.

he was an uber-hawk and supported attacking Iran, torture, and warrantless wiretaps. If anything, Giuliani was the closest thing to a pure neoconservative in high-level elected office. Gun control is a fake issue, and abortion is for the most part also, because Roe v Wade is never going to be overturned. Unfortunately, in contemporary American political discourse, the labels "conservative" and "liberal" are largely determined by two or three social issues.

Giuliani:

Liberal Views
Abortion
"Amnesty" for Illegal Immigrants
Gay rights
Gun control

Conservative Views
Affirmative action
Death penalty
Drugs
Free Trade
Health care
Kyoto Protocol/Alternative Energy (anti-wind and solar)
PATRIOT Act
School vouchers
Social Security (pro-privatization)
Taxes
War In Iraq/War on Terror

Pretty solidly conservative overall, I'd say, at most a lean-libertarian conservative. Three or four exceptions do not make someone a moderate, but it is an improvement over some other names that ran.
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« Reply #11 on: February 03, 2009, 01:02:51 PM »

Fascism with legal abortion != moderate.

If McCain hadn't run, he may have won New Hampshire assuming Romney still imploded.

LOL. Romney never imploded, Huckabee and McCain just surged at the worst possible time for him. NH was never going to vote for someone with Giuliani's record on guns.
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Associate Justice PiT
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« Reply #12 on: February 03, 2009, 03:36:45 PM »

     No, though hopefully a true libertarian will be. Smiley
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officepark
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« Reply #13 on: February 03, 2009, 04:21:44 PM »

What do you mean by "true" moderate? You probably mean a liberal, I am afraid, in which case, fortunately not. Smiley
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Nixon in '80
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« Reply #14 on: February 03, 2009, 04:45:06 PM »

What do you mean by "true" moderate? You probably mean a liberal, I am afraid, in which case, fortunately not. Smiley

Alright then, who's a "real moderate", not a liberal, in your opinion?
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Fmr. Pres. Duke
AHDuke99
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« Reply #15 on: February 03, 2009, 04:48:15 PM »

I kind of echo officepark's question. Who is considered moderate? There's no reason to run a center left Republican because we'd never win the base. Likewise, the question can be asked whether the Democrats will ever run a moderate? Would the liberal left vote for them?
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Lunar
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« Reply #16 on: February 03, 2009, 04:52:35 PM »

Romney will be the "moderate" candidate as far as I'm concerned.  Somewhat akin to Steele's candidacy - a very conservative person who supports compromise when it helps win elections.

Palin will be the equivalent of Chip Saltsman - saying the wrong thing and the media jumping on her - but with major gravitas. 

I could come up with more analogies but I'll quit there
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JSojourner
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« Reply #17 on: February 03, 2009, 05:35:35 PM »

Pro-choice, pro-gay right, pro-gun control Republican isn't a moderate for you? I know he was extremely hawkish, but otherwise, he was a moderate Republican. Fiscally conservative and socially liberal. He just had an awful campaign strategy and the primary schedule wasn't a help either. If McCain hadn't run, he may have won New Hampshire assuming Romney still imploded.

I might be misreading this, but are you saying McCain was pro-choice and pro-gay rights?  I see no evidence of either in his voting record or his rhetoric.  In supporting the criminalization of abortion, he does believe in allow exceptions for rape and incest.  But so do lots of conservatives.  On gay rights, I think McCain said he supported the concept of civil unions.  So yeah -- maybe that can be considered a moderate view. 

Where I think McCain staked himself out as a moderate was on drilling in the ANWR, immigration, some government spending for social programs that work, guns (though he's hardly liberal on the issue) and on tax cuts in war time -- (a position he changed once the campaign started).

I can see calling McCain a moderate.  (I view him as a mainstream conservative, just not theocratic about it.) But either way -- moderate or mainstream conservative -- he was not/is not the sort of person the GOP will look to nominate in 2012. 
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realisticidealist
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« Reply #18 on: February 03, 2009, 05:40:45 PM »

Pro-choice, pro-gay right, pro-gun control Republican isn't a moderate for you? I know he was extremely hawkish, but otherwise, he was a moderate Republican. Fiscally conservative and socially liberal. He just had an awful campaign strategy and the primary schedule wasn't a help either. If McCain hadn't run, he may have won New Hampshire assuming Romney still imploded.

I might be misreading this, but are you saying McCain was pro-choice and pro-gay rights?  I see no evidence of either in his voting record or his rhetoric.  In supporting the criminalization of abortion, he does believe in allow exceptions for rape and incest.  But so do lots of conservatives.  On gay rights, I think McCain said he supported the concept of civil unions.  So yeah -- maybe that can be considered a moderate view. 

Where I think McCain staked himself out as a moderate was on drilling in the ANWR, immigration, some government spending for social programs that work, guns (though he's hardly liberal on the issue) and on tax cuts in war time -- (a position he changed once the campaign started).

I can see calling McCain a moderate.  (I view him as a mainstream conservative, just not theocratic about it.) But either way -- moderate or mainstream conservative -- he was not/is not the sort of person the GOP will look to nominate in 2012. 

I think he was talking about Giuliani.
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JSojourner
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« Reply #19 on: February 03, 2009, 05:41:28 PM »

Pro-choice, pro-gay right, pro-gun control Republican isn't a moderate for you? I know he was extremely hawkish, but otherwise, he was a moderate Republican. Fiscally conservative and socially liberal. He just had an awful campaign strategy and the primary schedule wasn't a help either. If McCain hadn't run, he may have won New Hampshire assuming Romney still imploded.

I might be misreading this, but are you saying McCain was pro-choice and pro-gay rights?  I see no evidence of either in his voting record or his rhetoric.  In supporting the criminalization of abortion, he does believe in allow exceptions for rape and incest.  But so do lots of conservatives.  On gay rights, I think McCain said he supported the concept of civil unions.  So yeah -- maybe that can be considered a moderate view. 

Where I think McCain staked himself out as a moderate was on drilling in the ANWR, immigration, some government spending for social programs that work, guns (though he's hardly liberal on the issue) and on tax cuts in war time -- (a position he changed once the campaign started).

I can see calling McCain a moderate.  (I view him as a mainstream conservative, just not theocratic about it.) But either way -- moderate or mainstream conservative -- he was not/is not the sort of person the GOP will look to nominate in 2012. 

I think he was talking about Giuliani.

D'oh!  Sorry.
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Fmr. Pres. Duke
AHDuke99
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« Reply #20 on: February 03, 2009, 05:43:47 PM »

JS, I was referring to Giuliani as a moderate. I do realize he does possess hawkish views, but if those subsided as Iraq et al. slows down, I see him backing off that. Those aside, I think Mr. Giuliani is very moderate. He's a small government, hands off on social issues guy but does have a neocon streak.

McCain was hardly a moderate, but he did not answer to the far right until he selected Palin. I do believe McCain had stated in his past that he would accept gay marriage if there was a ceremony, but he obviously backed off that statement during the GOP primaries.
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ChrisFromNJ
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« Reply #21 on: February 03, 2009, 06:02:10 PM »

Likewise, the question can be asked whether the Democrats will ever run a moderate? Would the liberal left vote for them?

Umm... Bill Clinton? Al Gore circa 2000?
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WalterMitty
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« Reply #22 on: February 04, 2009, 02:12:57 PM »

jodi rell 2012.

why not?
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perdedor
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« Reply #23 on: February 04, 2009, 07:15:45 PM »

It depends on your definition of "true" moderate. Another John McCain-esque fake moderate? Quite possibly. An actual moderate like Susan Collins? Very little chance without massive realignment for the party.
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Coburn In 2012
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« Reply #24 on: February 04, 2009, 07:23:15 PM »


Fortunately probably not.  We have the Democrat party all ready.  We do not need a Democrat Lite party also.
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