What It Feels Like To Be A Libertarian (user search)
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  What It Feels Like To Be A Libertarian (search mode)
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Author Topic: What It Feels Like To Be A Libertarian  (Read 8951 times)
John Dibble
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« on: February 03, 2009, 02:13:19 PM »

Libertarianism is a psychological aberration composed of a mix of hubris, submissiveness, inability to face reality, blatant cognitive dissonance (double standards), and bootlicking.

But opebo, your ideology isn't libertarianism. Grin
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John Dibble
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« Reply #1 on: February 03, 2009, 03:53:12 PM »

No, Libertarianism is mostly egoism mixed with post-adolescent paranoia (why ARE you people so obsessed with guns?).

I dunno, try asking the people who are obsessed with taking them away.
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John Dibble
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« Reply #2 on: February 05, 2009, 06:52:22 PM »

No, Libertarianism is mostly egoism mixed with post-adolescent paranoia (why ARE you people so obsessed with guns?).

I dunno, try asking the people who are obsessed with taking them away.

No one of any consequence?

Some rather significant people with political power in this country who have been or are still rather obsessed with varying degrees of gun control, including the banning of handguns. Sure, it's not the most politically popular position to take right now because at this moment the majority is in support of gun rights, but I don't count on that lasting forever - the people are a fickle lot, after all, and support has waned before. Or where you not paying any attention?

Oh, and let's not forget about those other countries where the tyrannical dictators ensure their people don't have access to firearms. They don't want the proles to try to lynch them, after all. Or do you consider someone who can effectively have anyone living in his country killed on a whim to be "no one of any consequence"?
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John Dibble
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« Reply #3 on: February 06, 2009, 08:06:09 PM »

No, libertarian societies don't exist today, but they did exist once upon a time.
cite? 


Well, obviously it depends on what is meant by a "libertarian society" (as I'm sure each libertarian would have his or her own definition), but I was referring to the times when government was very small compared to today; for example, the USA throughout much of the 1800's I'd think would qualify.

Contrary to your high school history books, the federal government through much of the 1800's wasn't as hands off as you'd like to think.

A few "non-libertarian" things about the 1800's US government:
1. "Corporate welfare" in the form of land grants to railroad companies was rather routine. (though the admittedly "negative" regulation on the activities of companies was minimal)
2. Slavery being legal in the South for most of that century. The core principle of most libertarian philosophy is the concept of self-ownership - the idea that nobody owns you but you. Slavery quite obviously is the very opposite of that. There were numerous laws and Supreme Court decisions on this subject that were decidedly not libertarian.
3. The law discriminating against people based on their race. Whites were clearly favored by the government both before and after abolition, and not just in the South and not just against blacks. While many schools of libertarian thought are fine with individuals and even companies being allowed to discriminate in their private business, no school of libertarian thought would consider government racial discrimination as being acceptable.
4. Women didn't have equal rights to men. They couldn't vote, they were legally subordinate to their husbands, etc. Again, libertarians don't find this kind of discrimination from the government acceptable.
5. Take a gander at a few state constitutions to see some outdated artifacts of how the non-believers should be treated. Religious discrimination by government is also unacceptable to libertarians.

I think many libertarians point to the "good old days" of the US and its small government without considering what was fundamentally wrong with this country at the time. In some cases it's just ignorance, of course - high schools tend to only teach basic history, so a lot of important information is never learned. When our country was first founded it was certainly revolutionary at that time, but it wouldn't be good enough in the eyes of most libertarians if they actually had to live in it.
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John Dibble
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« Reply #4 on: February 07, 2009, 11:33:05 AM »

Big L Libertarianism automatically leads to despotism. North Korea is an example of what a big L Libertarian State would look like in short order.

Care to actually explain how you came to such an absurd conclusion?
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John Dibble
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« Reply #5 on: February 07, 2009, 05:08:05 PM »

Big L Libertarianism automatically leads to despotism. North Korea is an example of what a big L Libertarian State would look like in short order.

Care to actually explain how you came to such an absurd conclusion?

Corporations and warlords would take over so it's not 'absurd'

1. Corporations only exist by government consent.
2. Warlords would be killed by the government's army just like in any other society with a functioning government. And yes, there would be an army - libertarianism is not the same thing as anarchy.

big L Libertarianism is more unworkable than marxism hth

Since neither have actually occurred it's amazing you know the outcome.

Big L Libertarianism is ocurring right now in Somalia and briefly happened in post-katrina new orleans and marxism was tried in russia and china.

I repeat - Libertarianism is not anarchy.
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John Dibble
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« Reply #6 on: February 07, 2009, 10:30:23 PM »

In theory you're right but in practice you're 100% wrong.

Thanks for the examp- oh.

What he said. Until you can give an actual example of a state that's tried to implement libertarianism your argument holds no weight.
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John Dibble
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« Reply #7 on: February 07, 2009, 10:31:54 PM »

Being a libertarian is a state of mind. You have to really hate the government.

No, you just have to want the government to respect the rights of the citizens and in general stick to only a small set of necessary functions such as defense.
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John Dibble
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« Reply #8 on: February 07, 2009, 11:27:35 PM »

In theory you're right but in practice you're 100% wrong.

Thanks for the examp- oh.

What he said. Until you can give an actual example of a state that's tried to implement libertarianism your argument holds no weight.

Anarchist communes in spain.

Get this through your skull - anarchism and libertarianism are not the same thing. Anarchy involves there being no government, libertarianism still has government, just a small one that does only a few basic things.
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John Dibble
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« Reply #9 on: February 08, 2009, 08:45:12 AM »

In theory you're right but in practice libertarianism leads to chaos.

Except you've yet to show any example of an actual libertarian state that has failed. You've reference anarchists, but that's not the same thing.

Frankly, I think a libertarian state would be more likely just have it's government grow bigger over time than to collapse. Take the US government for example. While not libertarian in the total sense, it was originally rather minarchist. It started with the Articles of Confederation which were too weak to hold, moved to the Constitution which increased the size and power of the federal government (which was still comparatively small to what it currently is today) which gradually grew in size and role.
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