California hopes to close large deficit by cutting taxes for large corporations (user search)
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  California hopes to close large deficit by cutting taxes for large corporations (search mode)
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Author Topic: California hopes to close large deficit by cutting taxes for large corporations  (Read 3805 times)
Sam Spade
SamSpade
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« on: February 15, 2009, 02:45:51 AM »

This is all really just "whistling around the graveyard", regardless of what you think of the plan.

Without huge fundamental changes to California's spending and taxing ways, the state is insolvent and will be insolvent in the future.  This year's stimulus bailout will probably get it through 2009, but I wouldn't be planning on similar such assistance in the future.

In all honesty, I would advise anyone who's presently there to get the hell out, because that is one state where I would not want to be when TSHTF.
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Sam Spade
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« Reply #1 on: February 15, 2009, 03:04:28 AM »

Better than the Rustbelt even if we are politically impotent

Nope.  You have too many illegals and people dependent on the state government (among other problems).  That's just a powder keg waiting to go off.  Rustbelt states don't have either of those problems as much. (e.g. Michigan)

When TSHTF, you want to be in a fairly homogenous society with shared values, above all.
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Sam Spade
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« Reply #2 on: February 15, 2009, 03:25:39 AM »

This is all really just "whistling around the graveyard", regardless of what you think of the plan.

Without huge fundamental changes to California's spending and taxing ways, the state is insolvent and will be insolvent in the future.  This year's stimulus bailout will probably get it through 2009, but I wouldn't be planning on similar such assistance in the future.

In all honesty, I would advise anyone who's presently there to get the hell out, because that is one state where I would not want to be when TSHTF.

So what would you do O great one? Repeal prop 13 immediately? Probably way too late for that.

Repeal Prop 13.  Start slicing and dicing through your massive public employment sector by cutting jobs, salaries, benefits or all of the above (that creation of California during the 1960s nearly bankrupted the state during mere 'recessions').  Cut the various "free" programs (welfare, health care, etc.) that California provides.  Although the business tax cuts proposed here are complete crap, taxes must be dealt with a way that encourages the middle class and businesses to return (I don't know the code that well, but I do know it - if I ran the state, I'd come up with ideas).  Although I won't address it now, California's infrastructure and energy system is a joke - there's definitely something to be tackled there.

This is for starters...

And lastly, it's time to start deporting the illegals.  They are a menace to the state's public assistance network (esp. education) and will likely be one heck of a civil unrest problem in the upcoming years, while adding little of value to the society at large.

Yes, I know.  It's tough.  And tougher than I've ever been in the past with regards to illegals, not to mention the other stuff.  But one of these days, in general, we're going to have to face reexamination of government and what it can and cannot provide (not to mention what it should).  We're trying to punt the question right now. 

I just would prefer not to see us have to answer these questions facing people outside unemployed, starving, angry, and everything that goes with that.

Yes, I know I'm starting to sound like a bit of a kook or something, maybe.  So be it.  The signs are far too clear.
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Sam Spade
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« Reply #3 on: February 17, 2009, 09:48:05 AM »

Well I am glad you think prop 13 should be repealed as many of your ideology are too set in their way to admit what a disaster it is.

I don't know what "many of your ideology" means.  I follow the tune of my own drummer.

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Part of the problem in recent years has been this idea that we can fund government based on the backs of the insanely rich.  It can't work long-term and since the long-term is now, it won't work now either.

Besides, the incomes of the insanely rich are going to be (and are) declining at a rapid pace.  There was a recent article about this that I'm not going to look for, but basically it said that, well, we've lost a ton of income over the past year, but the giant drops were among the insanely rich.  It's not exactly surprising, but you need to keep in mind what these means for tax receipts.

However, I'll go on the record and say that I've never opposed a surtax on those who make over $1 million a year (with increases in the underlying taxed amount over time).  Just keep in mind that rich people often move and often have the means to do so.

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Maybe so, maybe not.  Certainly the rich weren't going to leave when times were good, but now...  Don't make the same assumption that these same presumptions that applied in the past are going to applynow.

And if we have tax cuts it should be for the middle class and small businesses, although I doubt we can afford any.
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California can't.  For now.  But they should be kept in mind.

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Of course the jobs will be there, in some form or another, probably lessened.  Problem is, when things get bad enough, which is right around the corner, if not here already, the high and minded folks looking for service sector jobs will eventually move down to that level.  That's what happens when you have to eat.

Right now, we are facing massive, massive oversupplies of everything.  It's one of the classic symptoms of a debt-deflation.  This problem hasn't exactly trickled down to everything just yet, and employment is usually the last place to be hit, but it's there.

It's there in housing, cars, CRE.  And it's there in labor too.  It's the reason why wages will decline heavily, why full-time workers will be pushed to part-time work, and why those people will, in the end, be laid off.

In such an over-supply of labor as we have and will have (i.e. it'll get worse, much worse), we should try and eliminate the supply as much as possible.  An easy first step is going after the illegals, many of whom can only perform menial work anyway.

Times change and so should our policies.  We need to limit immigration and emphasize allowing immigration mainly from those more highly educated immigrants (regardless of where they come from).  We did the same thing in the 1920s and 1930s during similar times.

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The amount they pay in taxes in no way makes up for the amount they take up in state services.

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Because, even though I said menial work will still exist, it will dry up in a great part.  And other folks from higher income levels will start to trickle down to take up those jobs (it takes time - be patient).  So, the illegals will either go back to Mexico (questionable, since I think Mexico will probably fare much worse) or be unemployed.  Unemployed non-citizens sucking off the government tit are giant problems in terms of civil unrest, especially when these benefits are cut back (which they will be - they have to be).
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Sam Spade
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« Reply #4 on: February 17, 2009, 09:55:55 AM »

At least everyone acknowledges that all of California's budget problems of the last few decades stem from Prop 13. (Admittedly, they'd probably be in a deficit without it, too, but so is everyone else.)

All of their problems?  California would still be screwed even if Prop 13 didn't exist because of the massive social services/public employment sector.

It just might take a while longer for it to occur (in other words - they would be New York or New Jersey-like).
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