British Parliament...worth a try.
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  British Parliament...worth a try.
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Author Topic: British Parliament...worth a try.  (Read 9165 times)
afleitch
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« on: February 16, 2009, 03:52:13 PM »

F-ck it. I know I am the originator of stalled attempts but this is the only one I think will work. Why? Because there's no constitutional convention, or shuffling around until it starts. It begins and it goes under its own steam. If it dies in a week then it dies.

It's an old idea but here goes.

Parties and elections

Labour, Conservative, Liberal Democrats, SNP, Plaid....only.

No others for now. It seems harsh, but it is important to maintain the main British parties to begin with. Parties like UKIP, Greens etc would attract more support on here than they do in reality. I'm even hesitant to include the SNP/Plaid for the same reason. Rule of thumb is, if you're left of centre you're either Labour or Lib Dem, right of centre you're Tory or Lib Dem. Not too many Lib Dems though Smiley In short, the game won't work if the party structures crumble

Elections.

Every two or three months. The voting system may be difficult to determine. While I'd support FPTP, unlike in Atlasia, we dont have 'states' to reside in and then determine seat size, neither do we have midterms. This is compounded by the need to respect the 'Home Nations' (Scotland, England, Northern Ireland, Wales) somewhat. Furthermore I would be concerned that one party may become ludicrously dominant under FPTP. I would therefore support a 'list' system; dividing Britain into set regions regardless of population and then apportioning seats to each area according to population. Considering the size of the game, this would probably see more balanced results but also sensible majorities in the Commons. It also provides a geographic basis for the game, and PMQ's. But I have an idea in how to maintain 'constituencies' that concur, broadly, with what exists in reality. I'll come to that later.

The size of the Commons would be larger than the Senate in Atlasia, as it is the focus of the whole game. The only person outside the Commons (barring voters), is the monarch. The hope is, this game involves a higher % of  registered players in government as is the case in Atlasia. How many MP's depends on how many players there are. This can change. I would hope we could get at least 20 or 30 to begin with, based on regions. That way the game can function with at least 1 person representing each region.

I had thought of using the 12 economic regions, but that is too much. Using the 4 home nations is fine, except that England is too large a size for one list. So I thought of the following.

Scotland
North of England (North East, North West, Yorkshire)
Midlands (East Midlands, West Midlands, East of England)
South of England (South East, South West)
London (keeping it by itself to encourage people to register there!)
Wales
Northern Ireland

Descriptions of each region can be given to give players unfamiliar with these areas a chance of choosing the best suited regions. Hopefully we can give them some less sterile names.

However, here's the twist. If a region is entitled to say 3 MP's, elected by the list, when the seats are allocated to each region, that region is then geographically split into 3 seats and each MP is given a designated 'seat' to represent.

For example. Lets say Wales is allocated 4 seats elected under a list system. 2 Labour candidates, 1 Tory and one Lib Dem is elected. Wales' 40 seats in reality are used to create 4 seats (of 10) before the election. After the election the MP's are given one seat each. But it's not entirely random, as you would have the two Labour MP's represent the most traditionally Labour areas of Wales etc. This can be arranged by a moderator with the help of the MP's in question. It means that people have a 'seat' to represent that is politicaly realistic, but also local so they can tailor their positions, and their concerns to what the main issues are in that area. The boundaries can be revised at set times to take into account changes in population. Even if in the game, Scotland has a higher population than London there should still be a balance 

Positions

The 'positions' in the game would be as follows

Monarch: Easy job. The monarch must make a speech at the start of each new parliamentary session outlining his/her governments plans for the coming session. The monarch also gives consent by signing, Acts of Parliament that are passed in the Commons. The monarch always signs these Acts. Would be ideal if the moderator held this role.

Prime Minister. The leader of the largest party in the Commons and head of the government. Is the voice of the government and while his approach to the job may be flexible, he can be easily removed if he angers his party. Has the power to call a general election within a 2 or 3 month period. However for the purposes of the game, and to stop the abuse of this power, as in real life he must go to the monarch for approval. Unlike in real life however, the monarch should actively use the power to decline the call for an election if we find ourselves getting snowed under with elections at whim.

Leader of the Opposition. The PM's counterpart and leader of the second largest party. His job is to offer constructive opposition to the PM. Bearing in mind that he technically 'leads' the whole opposition, including other parties when in the commons.

Speaker. Keeps order in the House, can impose discipline/suspend MP's. In this scenario it is likely that the Speaker should take on similar powers to the PPT in Atlasia, in order to manage day to day Commons business.

Cabinet and Shadow Cabinet. Appointed by the PM to head government departments. The Leader of the Opposition forms a Shadow Cabinet to oppose those ministers.

Possible posts - It is probably worth combining posts to start with, as happens in reality anyway;

Chancellor/Deputy - effectively the PM's number two. Responsible for finance.
Defence/Home/Justice - dealing with domestic security issues.
Education/Health/Social Security - dealing with welfare issues (v. important in UK politics)
Foreign/International Development - dealing with foreign and security issues.

Day to day business.

Essentially similar to Atlasia, with open threads on legislation. MP's of course have to tow the party line, unless the vote is a 'free vote'. Not doing so may result in your party leader disciplining you Wink The party is paramount and you have to work together on policy. You can of course, if you disagree so much, become an independent or join another party. This way, a governments mandate can be eroded and they may be  forced to call an election. But again, please be responsible Smiley You can still stay a member of the party and sit on the 'backbenches' and irritate your leader! Infact it's probably better to do that as he will be forced to placate you.

Prime Ministers Questions.

This is a key part of the game. Everyone in the Commons can put questions to the PM 'weekly' (or whatever timescale is chosen) on anything; policy, jarbs disguised as statements and local issues. I would hope that people would be as creative as possible. These exchanges form the basis of any media coverage/comment etc.

How to start the game

Sign up - get people signed up to a region and to a party
Set up - have parties meet and decide leader. Fight on the existing party platforms for now. Then designate number of seats per region.
Start.

No need for elections to start. Groups form and that's that.

Right. Now tear it to bits Smiley
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bullmoose88
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« Reply #1 on: February 16, 2009, 05:10:40 PM »

I'd be interested...and would need help in party selection.
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Hashemite
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« Reply #2 on: February 16, 2009, 05:41:47 PM »

I am interested.
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Verily
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« Reply #3 on: February 16, 2009, 05:59:06 PM »
« Edited: February 16, 2009, 06:22:30 PM by Verily »

Strongly Approve. Liberal Democrat from the South of England.
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bullmoose88
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« Reply #4 on: February 16, 2009, 06:13:23 PM »

anyone...a little help here...Not sure if I should take a tory or orangebook lib dem seat
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afleitch
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« Reply #5 on: February 16, 2009, 06:17:54 PM »

anyone...a little help here...Not sure if I should take a tory or orangebook lib dem seat

Tory.

While you could easily fit into the 'orangebook' Lib Dems (as could I in real life) for the purposes of the game (Labour v Tory...for now) we shouldn't have too many Lib Dems Smiley

I would hope that the post of Speaker would be filled by a Lib Dem or Nat as it is an important role.
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afleitch
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« Reply #6 on: February 16, 2009, 06:20:06 PM »

Strongly Approve. Liberal Democrat from the South of England.

Using you as an example (sorry!)

If we have 2 people in the South, then it's divided into two and you get the South West to compliment reality. If there are 6 in the south, it's divided into 6 and...well you probably get Cornwall and Devon etc
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bullmoose88
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« Reply #7 on: February 16, 2009, 06:22:48 PM »

Tory it is, though I reserve the right to orangebook it should things get crazy in tory land.  Where should I go?  London? SE, SW?
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Verily
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« Reply #8 on: February 16, 2009, 06:24:18 PM »

Strongly Approve. Liberal Democrat from the South of England.

Using you as an example (sorry!)

If we have 2 people in the South, then it's divided into two and you get the South West to compliment reality. If there are 6 in the south, it's divided into 6 and...well you probably get Cornwall and Devon etc

If we're going to have multi-seat elections, wouldn't we want to keep multiple people in the same region (so maybe split 3-3 if South of England gets 6 people, for example)?
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afleitch
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« Reply #9 on: February 16, 2009, 06:26:06 PM »

Tory it is, though I reserve the right to orangebook it should things get crazy in tory land.  Where should I go?  London? SE, SW?

Anywhere you like. Minus Northern Ireland. Only the SNP can stand in Scotland and Plaid Cymru in Wales.

Do you want to be suburban, rural? Southern and privately educated or a northern scrapper like Davis or Hague?
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bullmoose88
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« Reply #10 on: February 16, 2009, 06:27:02 PM »

Tory it is, though I reserve the right to orangebook it should things get crazy in tory land.  Where should I go?  London? SE, SW?

Anywhere you like. Minus Northern Ireland. Only the SNP can stand in Scotland and Plaid Cymru in Wales.

Do you want to be suburban, rural? Southern and privately educated or a northern scrapper like Davis or Hague?

I don't know, what better suits me?  Considering I'm borderline orange book (or wet tory), and what little personality i show on these boards.
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Verily
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« Reply #11 on: February 16, 2009, 06:31:30 PM »

Tory it is, though I reserve the right to orangebook it should things get crazy in tory land.  Where should I go?  London? SE, SW?

Anywhere you like. Minus Northern Ireland. Only the SNP can stand in Scotland and Plaid Cymru in Wales.

Do you want to be suburban, rural? Southern and privately educated or a northern scrapper like Davis or Hague?

I don't know, what better suits me?  Considering I'm borderline orange book (or wet tory), and what little personality i show on these boards.

London Tory, I would think. Maybe a Scottish Tory, but there shouldn't be many of those. Not a Midlands or Northern Tory, that's for certain, nor a Welsh Tory. South wouldn't be too bad a fit, either, I suppose, but not better than London.
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afleitch
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« Reply #12 on: February 16, 2009, 06:35:07 PM »

Strongly Approve. Liberal Democrat from the South of England.

Using you as an example (sorry!)

If we have 2 people in the South, then it's divided into two and you get the South West to compliment reality. If there are 6 in the south, it's divided into 6 and...well you probably get Cornwall and Devon etc

If we're going to have multi-seat elections, wouldn't we want to keep multiple people in the same region (so maybe split 3-3 if South of England gets 6 people, for example)?

That's the idea. Though I'd prefer to wait a month or two before elections. Effectively each region would be subdivided into seats. Elections would be multi-seat and then the Labour candidate get's 'put' into the most Labour part etc. As that hardly changes you will represent the same area, more or less, minus changes to the electorate and borders. The idea is to replicate the result of FPTP and historic strengths/allegiances even if the elections themselves won't be staightforward FPTP.

I want local issues to be pretty important in the game.
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bullmoose88
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« Reply #13 on: February 16, 2009, 06:36:59 PM »

London Tory it is then.  Thanks guys.
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Smid
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« Reply #14 on: February 16, 2009, 06:39:42 PM »

Smid, a Conservative, from wherever you'd like to put me.

I am excited about this game, although will continue to try to fire things up on the mock parliament site. I'm happy to help with discussion on Parliamentary procedure. There is another site with a mock British Parliament, which seems to be doing most of this quite well. I'll PM you a link so you can check it out and take whatever ideas you deem worthy (some of the boards they have might be useful).
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afleitch
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« Reply #15 on: February 16, 2009, 06:45:49 PM »
« Edited: February 16, 2009, 06:49:42 PM by afleitch »

Bit of a visual example



Say 'Midlands' have 6 seats like this

Now, to keep a bit of reality here, the strongest Tory seats are the purple and green seats(rural) The strongest Labour are the industrial orange and red seats. The brown and pink seats would be 'swing' seats. In a Tory landslide election they would win both of them, and if it was 50/50 they would win one and Labour would win the other.

Green would also be a potential Lib Dem seat.

So if 6 people are elected like this LAB,LAB,CON,CON,CON,LIB

Labour 'hold' Red and Orange, the Libs get Green (even though it is a strong Tory seat) and the Tories get the rest. Labour will hold red and orange even on a bad day and so on.

EDIT: I might 'dispense' with Northern Ireland. I'd rather not let the spectre of sectarianism flare Tongue
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Hashemite
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« Reply #16 on: February 16, 2009, 07:42:09 PM »

I'm thinking about going for the nats in either Scotland or Wales. Help me pick!
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afleitch
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« Reply #17 on: February 16, 2009, 07:46:55 PM »

I'm thinking about going for the nats in either Scotland or Wales. Help me pick!

Scotland. Only because I think it's going to be difficult to populate Smiley
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« Reply #18 on: February 16, 2009, 07:48:52 PM »

SNP it is.
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afleitch
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« Reply #19 on: February 16, 2009, 07:55:47 PM »


You'll end up with NE Scotland probably Smiley Be prepared to talk about fish! Unless you end up as Speaker.
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afleitch
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« Reply #20 on: February 16, 2009, 08:14:11 PM »

I know these things need a 'rudder.' I'm happy to act as Speaker/moderator.
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Smid
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« Reply #21 on: February 16, 2009, 09:59:55 PM »

I know these things need a 'rudder.' I'm happy to act as Speaker/moderator.

Very good idea - we need someone in that role who understands the procedures to steer it. Until everyone gets the hang of it, the Speaker needs to know how it all works and therefore you're the best person to handle that.
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bullmoose88
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« Reply #22 on: February 16, 2009, 11:40:15 PM »

No Labour yet? wow.
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Verily
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« Reply #23 on: February 17, 2009, 10:12:53 AM »


Yeah, I think it will be tough to find anyone willing to be Labour on this board. The American left seems pretty uniformly behind the LDs. Maybe Al will liven things up.
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k-onmmunist
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« Reply #24 on: February 17, 2009, 05:45:47 PM »

I'll join as a Labourite from the Midlands.
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