What county is the epitome of socially liberal white poors?

[cinyc]

I don't know where you're getting this notion that the MHI in Lamoille (or Washington) County is significantly lower than the national average.  The census bureau says otherwise.  And the percentage of people below the poverty line is 3 points lower than the national average, too.

Vermont's not a poor state.

[Alcon]

Verily, I think you're taking 2007 national MHI and comparing it to 2000 county income.

(I've done that at least ten times )

[cinyc]

Verily, I think you're taking 2007 national MHI and comparing it to 2000 county income.

(I've done that at least ten times )

Of the counties Verily mentioned, only Caledonia has a significant difference in 1999 MHI from the national average - about $7,000 less.  The difference in the other counties is a couple thousand dollars - making them about average.  But the poverty rate in every county, including Caledonia, is lower than the national average.  Caledonia by 0.1 points, the other counties by more.

When I think "white poors", the last state I think of is Vermont (or any New England state, for that matter).

[Brittain33]

When I think "white poors", the last state I think of is Vermont (or any New England state, for that matter).

There's a lot of rural proverty in northern New England. It's not desperation, but you have people struggling to get by. It's most prevalent in the areas far from the big cities and the busiest highways. Big parts of Maine, northern and western New Hampshire, parts of rural western Mass....

[Filuwaúrdjan]

When I think "white poors", the last state I think of is Vermont (or any New England state, for that matter).

There's a lot of rural proverty in northern New England. It's not desperation, but you have people struggling to get by. It's most prevalent in the areas far from the big cities and the busiest highways. Big parts of Maine, northern and western New Hampshire, parts of rural western Mass....

It's the same here as well. Rural poverty often hides itself very well (in the same sort of way that the true scale of urban poverty does, actually).

[cinyc]

When I think "white poors", the last state I think of is Vermont (or any New England state, for that matter).

There's a lot of rural proverty in northern New England. It's not desperation, but you have people struggling to get by. It's most prevalent in the areas far from the big cities and the busiest highways. Big parts of Maine, northern and western New Hampshire, parts of rural western Mass....

There certainly are pockets of poverty in northern and eastern Maine  - but it's nothing compared to places like Mississippi or Appalachian Kentucky.  Poverty rates in New Hampshire are lower than the national average - even in the economically depressed northern part of the state.  Vermont is slightly below average.  Western Massachusetts (minus Hampden County (Springfield)) is pretty much average.  Connecticut is Connecticut, even east of the Connecticut River.  Rhode Island is relatively well off, too

Census bureau map here.

Aroostook County, Maine may be the only county in New England that marginally fits the description - slightly poorer than the national average and pretty reliably Democrat (but perhaps not so liberal).  Washington County, Maine is just as poor, but more marginal.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

There certainly are pockets of poverty in northern and eastern Maine  - but it's nothing compared to places like Mississippi or Appalachian Kentucky.

Well of course not. But whites don't come poorer (certainly not in the United States) than those in central Appalachia.

[nclib]

Regarding Vermont, by 2007 data, 9 of its 14 counties were below the national average in median household income, with 4 (Essex, Orleans, Rutland, and Windham) considerably so.

[cinyc]

Regarding Vermont, by 2007 data, 9 of its 14 counties were below the national average in median household income, with 4 (Essex, Orleans, Rutland, and Windham) considerably so.

Being below the national average in MHI doesn't necessarily make a county poor, especially if the cost of living in those places is also lower or households are smaller than the national average.  The real question is how many of those counties had a higher percentage of folks below the poverty line.   I haven't looked at data for all 14 counties, but the census bureau's map shows most Vermont counties are around average in that category.

[Alcon]

Being below the national average in MHI doesn't necessarily make a county poor, especially if the cost of living in those places is also lower or households are smaller than the national average.  The real question is how many of those counties had a higher percentage of folks below the poverty line.   I haven't looked at data for all 14 counties, but the census bureau's map shows most Vermont counties are around average in that category.

You're rejecting MHI/PCI in favor of poverty line as a measure?  Poverty line is calculated pretty ineffectively, IMHO.  PCI is my favorite measure, in areas of comparable family/individual population.  Poverty rates oftentimes can be hugely, and as Al says, this is one such instance.

Read a paper on this...remind me to drag it up?

[cinyc]

Being below the national average in MHI doesn't necessarily make a county poor, especially if the cost of living in those places is also lower or households are smaller than the national average.  The real question is how many of those counties had a higher percentage of folks below the poverty line.   I haven't looked at data for all 14 counties, but the census bureau's map shows most Vermont counties are around average in that category.

You're rejecting MHI/PCI in favor of poverty line as a measure?  Poverty line is calculated pretty ineffectively, IMHO.  PCI is my favorite measure, in areas of comparable family/individual population.  Poverty rates oftentimes can be hugely, and as Al says, this is one such instance.

Read a paper on this...remind me to drag it up?

I'm not rejecting anything.  But the title of this thread is what county is the epitome of socially liberal white "poors".  Medians and averages mask variations in data.  Median household income could be 20,000 in a county where household A earns 21,000, B earns 20,000 and C earns 19,000 or in a county where household A earns 1,000,000, B earns 20,000 and C earns 100.  A statistic like the percentage of the population/households below the poverty line doesn't mislead about the number of people who are "poors". 

[Filuwaúrdjan]

A statistic like the percentage of the population/households below the poverty line doesn't mislead about the number of people who are "poors". 

The poverty line in the states is just an arbitrary line drawn in the '60's (and based on data from the '50's) and not seriously changed since. It didn't come down from Mount Sinai or anything.

[minionofmidas]

Medians and averages mask variations in data. (...)
A statistic like the percentage of the population/households below the poverty line doesn't mislead about the number of people who are "poors". 

Oh but it does. A "poverty line" is useful largely as an auxiliary to average income statistics - a high average together with a sizable population under the "poverty line" means there's also a lot of really super-rich people.
There might be little abject poverty in Vermont, but it's certainly not one of the posh parts of the United States.
Unlike the Republican parts of New Hampshire, which are.

[Brittain33]

Well if we're defining "poors" by the standards of deepest Appalachia, an area that isn't known for any social liberalism, we can go ahead and shut down the thread because no other part of the country approaches their level of poverty classified by race.

Honestly, the idea that posters here (including myself) have a complete grasp on the views of people with such different life experiences and economic resources enough to answer this question was already far-fetched.