"Living standards"

[dead0man]

Right, it doesn't matter if you have more stuff, more food and more things to do with your increased free time if the balance power (or whatever label you want to throw at it) has shifted the "wrong" way to any degree then the poors are being exploited even worse.

It's no wonder some people always seem angry.

[dead0man]

Opebo/deadman:

So hypothetically if food, healthcare, entertainment, transport etc. are all available to a greater proportion of people at a lower cost now than in the past, but the rich/elite have consolidated more power than in the past, you would argue that living standards have decreased?

No, living standards have increased, of course.

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No, for the most part the things are better due to the Free Market.  Part of that is about "the masses" having more (purchasing) power than the elite.  Part of it is about "the elites" spending way to much money on crap they want or need and over time, us regular folk getting to enjoy their spoils.

Yes yes, we're all "slaves" to the "man".  If being a slave means DVRs, large HDTVs, modern PCs w/ broadband, a grocery store with more food options than any sane human could want and all the other awesome things life in 2009 brings us.  It sure beats picking cotton or playing human shield on the front lines.

[dead0man]

Right, it doesn't matter if you have more stuff, more food and more things to do with your increased free time if the balance power (or whatever label you want to throw at it) has shifted the "wrong" way to any degree then the poors are being exploited even worse.

It's no wonder some people always seem angry.

Besides what Beet said regarding healthcare, tuition, housing, etc. it's pretty obvious that food is more expensive now. If you go to the store the price of things like milk has been on an upswing the last 2-3 years, particularly as Ethanol becomes more prominent. Couple that with a corporate culture that discourages most people from working "just" 40 hours a week and gives minimal vacation time, and it's no wonder that people feel over worked and pissed off. Obviously I probably disagree with a good chunk of the 'remedies' proposed by leftists for that but I don't think anyone can deny that quality of life has declined lately.

I don't think either of our anecdotes wins this round.  You got a cite that we spend more on food now than we have in the past?  (and when I say "the past", I don't mean 4 years ago.  Yes food prices have gone up a lot in the last couple of years..and they've dropped back down some recently too.  I suspect, although my Google Fu is weak today, that food prices were historically low before the recent increases.  Hopefully you or somebody else will have better luck looking for a legit cite either way.)

[dead0man]

Yes yes, we're all "slaves" to the "man".  If being a slave means DVRs, large HDTVs, modern PCs w/ broadband, a grocery store with more food options than any sane human could want and all the other awesome things life in 2009 brings us.  It sure beats picking cotton or playing human shield on the front lines.

Lots of people can't afford those things, and lots more can't afford health care, housing, or transportation.

Define "lots".

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Why should it?  If it's a better system for the top 90%, a wash for the next 5% and a worse system* for the bottom 5%, isn't that better than a system that is the exact opposite?  The idea of slowing society's advance down just to make sure the bottom rung on the latter is well taken care of is insane to me.


*I don't actually buy that.  I think everybody does better in a capitalist based economy.  Feel free to plug in your own numbers though.

[dead0man]

Are you asking me?  I don't think capitalism does reduce choice or quality.  In fact, the opposite tends to be true.

[dead0man]

Right.  It's not the perfect system, it's just way better than anything else anybody has ever thought of.