Is exorcism stupid?

[they don't love you like i love you]

Yes.

Works well in movies but the idea of it in reality is just LOL.

[Alcon]

You know what I find stupid?  Substituting polls for actual substantive discussion, substituting aloof irreverence for understanding.

I doubt you know jack about the history of exorcism in Catholicism, and have made no attempt to.

[Marokai Backbeat]

Alcon's lecturing now out of the way.

Yes, it is.

[they don't love you like i love you]

You know what I find stupid?  Substituting polls for actual substantive discussion, substituting aloof irreverence for understanding.

I doubt you know jack about the history of exorcism in Catholicism, and have made no attempt to.

Non-Catholic denoms have done exorcism too so it's not about that.

Amusing that an atheist would be defensive of such a thing.

[Alcon]

Marokai is right -- I'm not being defensive, I'm lecturing. 

Then, what is this topic about?  What are we supposed to learn or discuss here?  Look, whatever.  Why not ask us about whether we find some arcane Lutheran traditions "stupid"?  It's clear who you're trying to provoke, and it's boring.

[Marokai Backbeat]

Marokai is right -- I'm not being defensive, I'm lecturing. 

Didn't say it was unjustified.

[Tetro Kornbluth]

You know what I find stupid?  Substituting polls for actual substantive discussion, substituting aloof irreverence for understanding.

I doubt you know jack about the history of exorcism in Catholicism, and have made no attempt to.

This is truth.

I may add that there are cases where exorcisms is known to have 'worked' (that is, relieved the exorcisee (?) of the anguish that was perceived as demonic posession). Why this should be so, is a complete mystery. (Not that I believe in demons or exorcisms or etc).

[they don't love you like i love you]

Marokai is right -- I'm not being defensive, I'm lecturing. 

Then, what is this topic about?  What are we supposed to learn or discuss here?  Look, whatever.  Why not ask us about whether we find some arcane Lutheran traditions "stupid"?  It's clear who you're trying to provoke, and it's boring.

Any "arcane Lutheran traditions" are basically still only recognized and practiced by the more conservative denoms. Basically these stupid fucks: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confessional_Lutheran

I have nothing to do with them.

[Alcon]

Marokai is right -- I'm not being defensive, I'm lecturing. 

Then, what is this topic about?  What are we supposed to learn or discuss here?  Look, whatever.  Why not ask us about whether we find some arcane Lutheran traditions "stupid"?  It's clear who you're trying to provoke, and it's boring.

Any "arcane Lutheran traditions" are basically still only recognized and practiced by the more conservative denoms. Basically these stupid fucks: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confessional_Lutheran

I have nothing to do with them.

Well...how about Lutheranism in general?  If this wasn't intended to provoke certain groups you dislike, I mean, it's only fair to put your own beliefs up for mocking.  Or is your belief in the "magical Jewish zombie" beyond public reproach?    (I'm not mocking Christianity.  I'm mocking BRTD and only BRTD.  Because that is the kind of crap when you put bullying dismissal over actually understanding the world.)

Summary:  shut up go away

[Purple State]

In agreement with Alcon that making a poll to replace substantive discussion is really just useless.

That aside, yes exorcism is ridiculous.

[RosettaStoned]

Very stupid.

[JSojourner]

Exorcism, as practiced by the modern Roman Catholic, Anglican, Episcopal, Lutheran and some Baptist, churches is usually done in a very responsible way.  For one thing, it is very rarely done at all. 

Unfortunately, in many Pentectostal, Holiness, and -- surprisingly -- Eastern Orthodox churches, it is often considered a "first response" to any problem...and us frequently done without any medical or psychological evaluation.

[they don't love you like i love you]

"Very rarely" is still too much. It'd be like me "inventing" a drug to treat a completely fictitious disease but claiming to be responsible by recommending that it be used "only rarely".

[Sbane]

Exorcism, as practiced by the modern Roman Catholic, Anglican, Episcopal, Lutheran and some Baptist, churches is usually done in a very responsible way.  For one thing, it is very rarely done at all. 

Unfortunately, in many Pentectostal, Holiness, and -- surprisingly -- Eastern Orthodox churches, it is often considered a "first response" to any problem...and us frequently done without any medical or psychological evaluation.

But don't you think these obviously mentally ill people should get medical help? Our brains are wonderful and complicating things but sometimes things go wrong.

[Alcon]

Exorcism, as practiced by the modern Roman Catholic, Anglican, Episcopal, Lutheran and some Baptist, churches is usually done in a very responsible way.  For one thing, it is very rarely done at all. 

Unfortunately, in many Pentectostal, Holiness, and -- surprisingly -- Eastern Orthodox churches, it is often considered a "first response" to any problem...and us frequently done without any medical or psychological evaluation.

But don't you think these obviously mentally ill people should get medical help? Our brains are wonderful and complicating things but sometimes things go wrong.

Are we going to treat any irrational behaviors as mental illness?  I can understand if they endanger others.   But let's not go too far in declaring most of America worthy of psychological treatment

[Sbane]

Exorcism, as practiced by the modern Roman Catholic, Anglican, Episcopal, Lutheran and some Baptist, churches is usually done in a very responsible way.  For one thing, it is very rarely done at all. 

Unfortunately, in many Pentectostal, Holiness, and -- surprisingly -- Eastern Orthodox churches, it is often considered a "first response" to any problem...and us frequently done without any medical or psychological evaluation.

But don't you think these obviously mentally ill people should get medical help? Our brains are wonderful and complicating things but sometimes things go wrong.

Are we going to treat any irrational behaviors as mental illness?  I can understand if they endanger others.   But let's not go too far in declaring most of America worthy of psychological treatment

Most of America needs exorcism? Some of these people are just attention whores. But most probably have a psychological disorder. Screaming at them in latin isn't helping anyone. Did you think I was saying the people performing the exorcism were mentally ill? Irrational yes, mentally ill no.

[Alcon]

Um, no; sorry, I was vague.  I was saying that your definition of "mentally ill" seems to be "does irrational things."  Most Americans, most everythings, believe in and do things on an irrational basis.  Should we be treating people for their religious beliefs?  That's not to say that there are not rationally-derived religious beliefs, but not to be cynical, but I doubt most people arrive at them that way.  So...do we treat them, too?  Or only the ones that do harm?

I guess that depends on how much you dislike being yelled at in Latin.  Personally, big turn-on for me

[Sbane]

No I am not saying doing irrational things= mentally ill. If these people are voluntarily getting exorcism's done then I am totally fine with it. I am not ok with the mentally ill being forced to undergo exorcism, instead of proper medical attention. Mind you most of my views on exorcism are based on the movie "The exorcism of Emile Rose". I haven't met even a single person who has undergone exorcism or performed it.

[Alcon]

No I am not saying doing irrational things= mentally ill. If these people are voluntarily getting exorcism's done then I am totally fine with it. I am not ok with the mentally ill being forced to undergo exorcism, instead of proper medical attention. Mind you most of my views on exorcism are based on the movie "The exorcism of Emile Rose". I haven't met even a single person who has undergone exorcism or performed it.

Ahh, fair enough.  We agree then.  I do not support a religious "exorcism" exemption for assault either

[JSojourner]

Exorcism, as practiced by the modern Roman Catholic, Anglican, Episcopal, Lutheran and some Baptist, churches is usually done in a very responsible way.  For one thing, it is very rarely done at all. 

Unfortunately, in many Pentectostal, Holiness, and -- surprisingly -- Eastern Orthodox churches, it is often considered a "first response" to any problem...and us frequently done without any medical or psychological evaluation.

But don't you think these obviously mentally ill people should get medical help? Our brains are wonderful and complicating things but sometimes things go wrong.

Absolutely.  Exhaustive testing, analysis and diagnosis are called for -- both for physical and psychological explanations.  All I am saying is that I believe demonic possession is, in very rare and extreme cases, a reality.  That's because I do believe demons exist and are permitted, in some instances, to inhabit human hosts.

Crazy?  Yeah, maybe.  And then maybe not.

What I think we CAN agree on is that any person (a parent, guardian or clergyperson) who practices exorcism without insisting on rigorous and thorough medical and psychological analysis first is guilty of neglect, abuse and malpractice.  I do believe 99.9 percent of these cases ARE explainable medically and/or psychologically.

[7,052,770]

Yeah, pretty dumb.  Luckily that's one of those on-the-books-but-not-ever-done-in-reality kind of things or I'd have to take a long hard look at changing denominations.

[Torie]

Exorcism, as practiced by the modern Roman Catholic, Anglican, Episcopal, Lutheran and some Baptist, churches is usually done in a very responsible way.  For one thing, it is very rarely done at all. 

Unfortunately, in many Pentectostal, Holiness, and -- surprisingly -- Eastern Orthodox churches, it is often considered a "first response" to any problem...and us frequently done without any medical or psychological evaluation.

But don't you think these obviously mentally ill people should get medical help? Our brains are wonderful and complicating things but sometimes things go wrong.

Absolutely.  Exhaustive testing, analysis and diagnosis are called for -- both for physical and psychological explanations.  All I am saying is that I believe demonic possession is, in very rare and extreme cases, a reality.  That's because I do believe demons exist and are permitted, in some instances, to inhabit human hosts.

Crazy?  Yeah, maybe.  And then maybe not.

What I think we CAN agree on is that any person (a parent, guardian or clergyperson) who practices exorcism without insisting on rigorous and thorough medical and psychological analysis first is guilty of neglect, abuse and malpractice.  I do believe 99.9 percent of these cases ARE explainable medically and/or psychologically.

Well I think JS we can put to bed the supposition that you are a hard line Leftie on everything. We now know that you have moderate views about exorcism. Are you in the hunt for moderate hero status or something? 

[JSojourner]

Exorcism, as practiced by the modern Roman Catholic, Anglican, Episcopal, Lutheran and some Baptist, churches is usually done in a very responsible way.  For one thing, it is very rarely done at all. 

Unfortunately, in many Pentectostal, Holiness, and -- surprisingly -- Eastern Orthodox churches, it is often considered a "first response" to any problem...and us frequently done without any medical or psychological evaluation.

But don't you think these obviously mentally ill people should get medical help? Our brains are wonderful and complicating things but sometimes things go wrong.

Absolutely.  Exhaustive testing, analysis and diagnosis are called for -- both for physical and psychological explanations.  All I am saying is that I believe demonic possession is, in very rare and extreme cases, a reality.  That's because I do believe demons exist and are permitted, in some instances, to inhabit human hosts.

Crazy?  Yeah, maybe.  And then maybe not.

What I think we CAN agree on is that any person (a parent, guardian or clergyperson) who practices exorcism without insisting on rigorous and thorough medical and psychological analysis first is guilty of neglect, abuse and malpractice.  I do believe 99.9 percent of these cases ARE explainable medically and/or psychologically.

Well I think JS we can put to bed the supposition that you are a hard line Leftie on everything. We now know that you have moderate views about exorcism. Are you in the hunt for moderate hero status or something? 

Horrors!  I would hate to be thought of as a moderate hero.  I also enjoy guns, too.  Yipes.  I hope I am not abandoning my Maoist idealism!  ;-)

[Person Man]

I dunno. I'm open to the idea...especially if some parts of the M-theory turn out to be true.