One in 20 young German men neo-Nazis

[© tweed]

is this just something people 'grow out of'?  it wouldn't shock me if 5% of American fifteen-year-olds self-indentified as communist/anarchist.

[Tetro Kornbluth]

is this just something people 'grow out of'?  it wouldn't shock me if 5% of American fifteen-year-olds self-indentified as communist/anarchist.

I thought something like that... but then again 5% is awfully high (but on the other hand, how reliable is this survey? How reliable can any given the nature of 15 year olds?)

[Lief 🗽]

Phil, I think you're confusing xenophobia and racism.

[bgwah]

Whatever. I'm sure much more than 5% of young Americans are racists/fascists.

Yeah, there are a lot of them in America. I just made a map of what states I think are mostly fascist. Blue is fascist, red is non-fascist:

[dead0man]

HEY!  You left out my district.

[Keystone Phil]

Phil, I think you're confusing xenophobia and racism.

No, I'm pretty sure I'm not. 

[opebo]

Whatever. I'm sure much more than 5% of young Americans are racists/fascists.

Translation - "OMG Europe isn't perfect!"

It certainly is not, it is just better than the US.

Keep in mind that these 5% of young Krautmen who are so stupid are still cossetted in one of the most generous, comfortable, and effective welfare states in the world.  Lucky dumbs!

[Sbane]

The xenophobia in Europe is real and a little sad/scary.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Proposition_187_(1994)

Good point, although it is a bit different than actually joining fascist parties or groups.I guess the European system of governance makes it more possible than here in two party America. Also I think California has gotten beyond prop 187 and I think/hope the non-latino voting public would vote it down today. In Europe the xenophobia seems to be increasing with time, not decreasing.

[Sbane]

Why is preventing law breakers from social services xenophobia? Al, can I come to England as a visitor and be a beneficiary of your NHS? And if not, why are you being such a xenophobe?

If you're a resident, you are entitled to care regardless of nationality.

This was a response to StatesRights' question about access to the NHS in Britain.

Sorry for the confusion.

But excluding States wouldn't be xenophobic and no one would call it that anyway. Bring up an American that opposes drivers licenses, Social Security, etc. for those that enter this country illegally and you're xenophobic. It's disgusting.

Illegals get social security? I wonder how they got their number........

[○∙◄☻¥tπ[╪AV┼cVê└]

Is this where Obama gets his 2% disapproval rating?

[Keystone Phil]

Why is preventing law breakers from social services xenophobia? Al, can I come to England as a visitor and be a beneficiary of your NHS? And if not, why are you being such a xenophobe?

If you're a resident, you are entitled to care regardless of nationality.

This was a response to StatesRights' question about access to the NHS in Britain.

Sorry for the confusion.

But excluding States wouldn't be xenophobic and no one would call it that anyway. Bring up an American that opposes drivers licenses, Social Security, etc. for those that enter this country illegally and you're xenophobic. It's disgusting.

Illegals get social security? I wonder how they got their number........

Well, not Social Security but others advocate for them, claiming they have a "right" to other benefits and it's not xenophobic for me to oppose that.

[The Man From G.O.P.]

How uncontrollably politically correct and open doors does a country have to get to where it's ok for some of the majority to get uncomfortable?


There's plenty of radical left youths, they are no different.

[??????????]

Why is preventing law breakers from social services xenophobia? Al, can I come to England as a visitor and be a beneficiary of your NHS? And if not, why are you being such a xenophobe?

If you're a resident, you are entitled to care regardless of nationality.

This was a response to StatesRights' question about access to the NHS in Britain.

Sorry for the confusion.

But excluding States wouldn't be xenophobic and no one would call it that anyway. Bring up an American that opposes drivers licenses, Social Security, etc. for those that enter this country illegally and you're xenophobic. It's disgusting.

Illegals get social security? I wonder how they got their number........

It's pretty easy to get one if you know the right person. Duh.

[Sbane]

Why is preventing law breakers from social services xenophobia? Al, can I come to England as a visitor and be a beneficiary of your NHS? And if not, why are you being such a xenophobe?

If you're a resident, you are entitled to care regardless of nationality.

This was a response to StatesRights' question about access to the NHS in Britain.

Sorry for the confusion.

But excluding States wouldn't be xenophobic and no one would call it that anyway. Bring up an American that opposes drivers licenses, Social Security, etc. for those that enter this country illegally and you're xenophobic. It's disgusting.

Illegals get social security? I wonder how they got their number........

It's pretty easy to get one if you know the right person. Duh.

Then that should be cracked down on, since it is also unfair to the illegals who try to live legally. I know they broke one law, but this does not mean they want to break multiple laws. Most illegals come here illegaly because they have no other choice. It's not as if a farmer or a Mcdonalds is going to sponsor someone's H1b visa. Yet they still come because the demand for them is there. Immigration laws need to be changed if you ever want to see the illegal population go down. And greater border enforcement should go with that as well.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Why is preventing law breakers from social services xenophobia? Al, can I come to England as a visitor and be a beneficiary of your NHS? And if not, why are you being such a xenophobe?

If you're a resident, you are entitled to care regardless of nationality.

This was a response to StatesRights' question about access to the NHS in Britain.

Sorry for the confusion.

But excluding States wouldn't be xenophobic and no one would call it that anyway. Bring up an American that opposes drivers licenses, Social Security, etc. for those that enter this country illegally and you're xenophobic. It's disgusting.

Illegals get social security? I wonder how they got their number........

Well, not Social Security but others advocate for them, claiming they have a "right" to other benefits and it's not xenophobic for me to oppose that.

What people advocate for Social Security is that ONCE THEY BECOME LEGAL IMMIGRANTS that they can collect on benefits that they paid in when they were illegal.

[Keystone Phil]

Why is preventing law breakers from social services xenophobia? Al, can I come to England as a visitor and be a beneficiary of your NHS? And if not, why are you being such a xenophobe?

If you're a resident, you are entitled to care regardless of nationality.

This was a response to StatesRights' question about access to the NHS in Britain.

Sorry for the confusion.

But excluding States wouldn't be xenophobic and no one would call it that anyway. Bring up an American that opposes drivers licenses, Social Security, etc. for those that enter this country illegally and you're xenophobic. It's disgusting.

Illegals get social security? I wonder how they got their number........

Well, not Social Security but others advocate for them, claiming they have a "right" to other benefits and it's not xenophobic for me to oppose that.

What people advocate for Social Security is that ONCE THEY BECOME LEGAL IMMIGRANTS that they can collect on benefits that they paid in when they were illegal.

And what about the more immediate services that people argue they are "entitled" to have?

Just realize (as hard as it is for a stubborn person like yourself) that we do have other reasons to oppose this other than xenophobia. I really didn't expect this from someone like yourself since you typically dislike these silly racial/ethnic battles.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

Seems like there's nothing quite like mentioning that proposition to get a thread to grow...

Anyway, my point wasn't that barring illegal immigrants from a given service is necessarily xenophobic, my point was that xenophobia was the main reason for the strong support given to that particular proposition (and, indeed, the strong re-election of a certain race-baiting Governor in the same state in the same year) and to other proposals and legislation like it. Generally speaking people do not get so very, very angry about technical breaches of the law when they are committed by people who they regard as fellow citizens. The lack of angry campaigns to "do something" about (say) jaywalkers speaks volumes... as does the public tolerance of not-obviously-suicidal-speeding and a certain amount of lying on tax returns.

[Keystone Phil]

The lack of angry campaigns to "do something" about (say) jaywalkers speaks volumes...

Comparing jaywalking to illegal immigration. Awesome.

 

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Well, I'm opposed to wreckless driving and lying on tax returns but because they're not as visible as issues there's some deep seeded xenophobia that I don't recognize? Give me a break.

Again, people don't care as much about lying on tax returns but do want to punish organized crime. Deep seeded fear of Italians?

[Filuwaúrdjan]

The lack of angry campaigns to "do something" about (say) jaywalkers speaks volumes...

Comparing jaywalking to illegal immigration. Awesome.

See, this is why I should never go into politics. But, yes, there are certain similarities, especially when you consider quite how crazy certain immigration laws are.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

You must be logged in to read this quote.

No, that isn't my point. My point is that you don't see angry movements against these things because the people doing them are, for the most part, seen as fellow citizens by most people and the media (and because it's often "respectable" people who're especially bad offenders).

You must be logged in to read this quote.

Comparing organised crime to technical infringement of complicated laws. Awesome.

[Keystone Phil]

No, that isn't my point. My point is that you don't see angry movements against these things because the people doing them are, for the most part, seen as fellow citizens by most people and the media (and because it's often "respectable" people who're especially bad offenders).

Uh...first of all, to compare the breaching of those laws is absolutely insane. Jaywalking is as bad as illegal entry into the country? Are you serious?

Secondly, I don't give a damn if they're my "fellow citizens." I don't care about jaywalking or even speeding as much because it's not that extreme (especially not the former).

You must be logged in to read this quote.

How's that any worse than you comparing blatant disregard for the law that has a great impact on a society's safety to...jaywalking?

[Storebought]

is this just something people 'grow out of'?  it wouldn't shock me if 5% of American fifteen-year-olds self-indentified as communist/anarchist.

I thought something like that... but then again 5% is awfully high (but on the other hand, how reliable is this survey? How reliable can any given the nature of 15 year olds?)

The 5% they cite in Germany is a joke, the true number being substantially higher particularly in the eastern states, but, then again, the German press has an obnoxious habit of either underreporting their own social/economic ills or citing the US as the source. I'm surprised they didn't take that tack -- "Anti-foreigner sentiment in the Bundesrepublik has increased seven-fold on account of the illegal US War in Iraq ..."

[© tweed]

The lack of angry campaigns to "do something" about (say) jaywalkers speaks volumes...

Giuliani

[Tetro Kornbluth]

is this just something people 'grow out of'?  it wouldn't shock me if 5% of American fifteen-year-olds self-indentified as communist/anarchist.

I thought something like that... but then again 5% is awfully high (but on the other hand, how reliable is this survey? How reliable can any given the nature of 15 year olds?)

The 5% they cite in Germany is a joke, the true number being substantially higher particularly in the eastern states, but, then again, the German press has an obnoxious habit of either underreporting their own social/economic ills or citing the US as the source. I'm surprised they didn't take that tack -- "Anti-foreigner sentiment in the Bundesrepublik has increased seven-fold on account of the illegal US War in Iraq ..."

Source? Or why should I believe this Anti-European dribble... and while we are at can we please define "neo-nazi" precisely. All this sounds like newspaper gossip, mostly to make people of various political perspectives go OMG SOMETHING MUST BE DONZ!111

[Storebought]

is this just something people 'grow out of'?  it wouldn't shock me if 5% of American fifteen-year-olds self-indentified as communist/anarchist.

I thought something like that... but then again 5% is awfully high (but on the other hand, how reliable is this survey? How reliable can any given the nature of 15 year olds?)

The 5% they cite in Germany is a joke, the true number being substantially higher particularly in the eastern states, but, then again, the German press has an obnoxious habit of either underreporting their own social/economic ills or citing the US as the source. I'm surprised they didn't take that tack -- "Anti-foreigner sentiment in the Bundesrepublik has increased seven-fold on account of the illegal US War in Iraq ..."

Source? Or why should I believe this Anti-European dribble... and while we are at can we please define "neo-nazi" precisely. All this sounds like newspaper gossip, mostly to make people of various political perspectives go OMG SOMETHING MUST BE DONZ!111

How can you find statistics on a social movement that the media underreport? The best source I could find was a Spiegel 2006 article. It is easily google-able.

Call it a hunch, but I think that the brownshirt movement in Germany is directly related to the unemployment rate, and even more so the underemployment rate. Both of these are substantially higher than 5% especially in eastern Germany.

[Tetro Kornbluth]

is this just something people 'grow out of'?  it wouldn't shock me if 5% of American fifteen-year-olds self-indentified as communist/anarchist.

I thought something like that... but then again 5% is awfully high (but on the other hand, how reliable is this survey? How reliable can any given the nature of 15 year olds?)

The 5% they cite in Germany is a joke, the true number being substantially higher particularly in the eastern states, but, then again, the German press has an obnoxious habit of either underreporting their own social/economic ills or citing the US as the source. I'm surprised they didn't take that tack -- "Anti-foreigner sentiment in the Bundesrepublik has increased seven-fold on account of the illegal US War in Iraq ..."

Source? Or why should I believe this Anti-European dribble... and while we are at can we please define "neo-nazi" precisely. All this sounds like newspaper gossip, mostly to make people of various political perspectives go OMG SOMETHING MUST BE DONZ!111

How can you find statistics on a social movement that the media underreport? The best source I could find was a Spiegel 2006 article. It is easily google-able.

Call it a hunch, but I think that the brownshirt movement in Germany is directly related to the unemployment rate, and even more so the underemployment rate. Both of these are substantially higher than 5% especially in eastern Germany.

Colour me unconvinced... I'm interesting on what Lewis has to say about this.