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  Constitutional Convention (Moderators: Gustaf, Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee)
  Public referenda?
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Author Topic: Public referenda?  (Read 1753 times)
afleitch
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« on: March 22, 2009, 11:31:49 am »

This is something I've been supportive of for some time now whether it's the formal public proposal of referenda, or the creation of a 'tier' of governement that allows all legislation passed by the Senate to be voted on in a public referendum before being signed by the President (or vetoed if the public vote against - i'll need to dig out my posts on that from a while back)

Whether this is adopted or even needed depends on the system of government we decide upon but I feel it is worth discussion. Thoughts?
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Smid
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« Reply #1 on: March 23, 2009, 09:45:35 am »

Depending on the model we adopt, this would be my second preference as it allows for greater participation (as you mentioned at the end).

Obviously if we adopt a parliamentary model with universal membership, a public referenda would become obsolete, however if we follow a model which would not allow for a legislature comprised of all who wish to participate, this is the next best thing in my opinion. In a sense, this would create a legislature in which everyone may participate.
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Cuivienen
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« Reply #2 on: March 23, 2009, 12:14:07 pm »

Referenda as such are always a bad idea. They present a false dichotomy needlessly. The ability of the population, hopefully organized into a Lower House, to deliberate on legislation is something else entirely. But a straight up-or-down vote by the public on anything will meet with my opposition.
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Hashemite
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« Reply #3 on: March 23, 2009, 03:12:24 pm »

If we adopt Smid's parliamentary-universalism proposal, this would be useless.
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afleitch
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« Reply #4 on: March 23, 2009, 07:24:18 pm »

If we adopt Smid's parliamentary-universalism proposal, this would be useless.

I agree. But we have to consider the possibility that it won't be adopted. And if it isn't or any other universal system isn't what can we do with regards to direct democracy.
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MaxQue
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« Reply #5 on: March 23, 2009, 11:36:22 pm »

But a straight up-or-down vote by the public on anything will meet with my opposition.

Why not only if the Senate vote is 5-5 or 6-4?
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Cuivienen
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« Reply #6 on: March 24, 2009, 09:20:09 am »

But a straight up-or-down vote by the public on anything will meet with my opposition.

Why not only if the Senate vote is 5-5 or 6-4?

That's possibly the stupidest proposal I've heard at the Convention.

Look, the point of referenda is not to actually obey the will of the people. It's to foment populist outrage on subjects the populous doesn't understand or care to try to understand. Now, Atlasia has a slightly higher level of understanding than most countries, but referenda are still absurd false dichotomies, and there has never been serious debate over a referndum, nor is there the ability to modify a referendum to meet with certain objectiosn as there must be in any sane legislative process.

In short, referenda are an incredibly bad idea. There is absolutely no reason why we should even consider implementing them.
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