Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
December 15, 2019, 12:50:38 am
News: 2019 Gubernatorial Endorsements Close today at noon

  Atlas Forum
  Atlas Fantasy Elections
  Atlas Fantasy Government
  Constitutional Convention (Moderators: Gustaf, Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee)
  Presidential Parliamentarian (Discussion Open)
« previous next »
Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 Print
Author Topic: Presidential Parliamentarian (Discussion Open)  (Read 31338 times)
Purple State
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 6,713
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« on: April 02, 2009, 11:18:17 pm »
« edited: June 24, 2009, 09:27:33 pm by Senator Purple State »

This thread is for the development of a Presidential Parliamentarian system of government. Please propose ideas for individual pieces of construction, rather than entire proposals. I would prefer no more than one Article (e.g. Executive, Judicial, etc.) per post maximum. I will include all pieces that have been approved in this first post as they are passed through votes.

As a reminder, the Rules of Order state that, "All elections and votes required by this law shall require the participation of 50% of all delegates, as determined by the sign in thread, at the start of the election or vote to be valid, unless otherwise stated [in the RoO]."

Please keep debate and discussion friendly.

The following is a brief outline of this system: An unicameral legislature, like the one we have currently, expanded slightly, that elects a Prime Minister (Head of Government) who selects his cabinet. This could also include a President (Head of State) that is elected through a nationwide popular vote



The Constitution

Quote
You must be logged in to read this quote.
Logged
Devilman88
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 2,498


Political Matrix
E: 5.94, S: 2.61

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #1 on: April 02, 2009, 11:29:51 pm »

I know I am not a delegate, but I am a citizen and I think this plan would be good for the Regions, if you want you can reword this to sound better..

1. Reduce the Regions to 3 region. Each region would have close to the same amount of members in it. Also every April and October the region's lines can be changed if needed to equal out the number of members.

2. Each region would act like a state. They will have there own constitution and their own laws, etc.


3. Each region must have a Head of Region(what they call it is up to each region), and an Assembly of three members, both the HoR and the Assembly member are elected by the people of that region. (It is up to each region when and how many times a year they are elected.)


4. The Assembly will act like a mini senate, they will come up with bills, debate bills etc. The Assembly will be open to all members of that region so members can give bills and debate bills but the Assembly members are the only ones that can pass a bill. Once passed it go to the HoR and is signed or vetoed.

5. The Head of Region would be the person who is in charge of holding elections, signing/vetoing bills and keeping the Assembly member in order. Also if an Assembly member resign the HoR would take that members place until they elected another member.

6. Each region would send two senators to the senate, leaving 4 at large senate seats.
Logged
Fine...I Made This More Civil
persepolis
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 466


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #2 on: April 02, 2009, 11:58:34 pm »

I know I am not a delegate, but I am a citizen and I think this plan would be good for the Regions, if you want you can reword this to sound better..

1. Reduce the Regions to 3 region. Each region would have close to the same amount of members in it. Also every April and October the region's lines can be changed if needed to equal out the number of members.

2. Each region would act like a state. They will have there own constitution and their own laws, etc.


3. Each region must have a Head of Region(what they call it is up to each region), and an Assembly of three members, both the HoR and the Assembly member are elected by the people of that region. (It is up to each region when and how many times a year they are elected.)


4. The Assembly will act like a mini senate, they will come up with bills, debate bills etc. The Assembly will be open to all members of that region so members can give bills and debate bills but the Assembly members are the only ones that can pass a bill. Once passed it go to the HoR and is signed or vetoed.

5. The Head of Region would be the person who is in charge of holding elections, signing/vetoing bills and keeping the Assembly member in order. Also if an Assembly member resign the HoR would take that members place until they elected another member.

6. Each region would send two senators to the senate, leaving 4 at large senate seats.

The orginal plan calls for a larger legislative body, though. How about expanding it to 3 delegates per region, and 6 at large seats. This would also make it so that there are elections every 2 months. It will help enhance interest in the game by having major elections frequently.
Logged
Devilman88
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 2,498


Political Matrix
E: 5.94, S: 2.61

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #3 on: April 03, 2009, 01:35:23 pm »

I know I am not a delegate, but I am a citizen and I think this plan would be good for the Regions, if you want you can reword this to sound better..

1. Reduce the Regions to 3 region. Each region would have close to the same amount of members in it. Also every April and October the region's lines can be changed if needed to equal out the number of members.

2. Each region would act like a state. They will have there own constitution and their own laws, etc.


3. Each region must have a Head of Region(what they call it is up to each region), and an Assembly of three members, both the HoR and the Assembly member are elected by the people of that region. (It is up to each region when and how many times a year they are elected.)


4. The Assembly will act like a mini senate, they will come up with bills, debate bills etc. The Assembly will be open to all members of that region so members can give bills and debate bills but the Assembly members are the only ones that can pass a bill. Once passed it go to the HoR and is signed or vetoed.

5. The Head of Region would be the person who is in charge of holding elections, signing/vetoing bills and keeping the Assembly member in order. Also if an Assembly member resign the HoR would take that members place until they elected another member.

6. Each region would send two senators to the senate, leaving 4 at large senate seats.

The orginal plan calls for a larger legislative body, though. How about expanding it to 3 delegates per region, and 6 at large seats. This would also make it so that there are elections every 2 months. It will help enhance interest in the game by having major elections frequently.

That number can be changed, I was just going with the current number of senate. But I believe this would be better then a the other one they are debating on. If they make it like this plus change the senate to 15-20 people you will have 27-32 Senate/Head of Region/Assembly members.
Logged
Purple State
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 6,713
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #4 on: April 03, 2009, 01:36:41 pm »

I think, before working on minute details about regions (which can be left until almost the very end), we should focus on developing the Executive Branch, ideas about the legislature, etc.
Logged
Devilman88
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 2,498


Political Matrix
E: 5.94, S: 2.61

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #5 on: April 03, 2009, 02:41:28 pm »
« Edited: April 03, 2009, 02:44:47 pm by $Dan$ »

Article I

Section I: The Prime Minister

1. The Executive power shall be given to the Prime Minister. He shall be elected for a term of approximately four months
2. No person who has not attained 300 post or more and is not a registered voter shall serve as Prime Minister.
3. The Prime Minister shall select a cabinet for within the Parliament member. If the Prime Minister select a cabinet member outside the Parliament then the Parliament members shall vote for or against that person. That person would need at least 3/4 of the Parliament vote to become a cabinet member.

Section II: Election of the Prime Minister

1. The Prime Minister shall be elected by the member of Parliamentary in the months of February, June and October. The vote shall be held from Noon Eastern Standard Time on the first Friday of that given month and lasting for 72 hours.
2. The Parliamentary shall have necessary power to determine regulations for the procedure of and the form of the Prime Minister elections. All election of the Prime Minister shall be by Public Post.
3. The Prime Minister shall take office on the last Friday of the month he/she is elected.

Section III: Vacancy and Incapacity of the Prime Minister

1.  If the Prime Minister shall ever fall vacant, the President shall become Prime Minister. If the  Presidency is also vacant, then the longest serving member of Parliamentary shall become Prime Minister. If there is a tie for the longest serving member of Parliamentary then the member with the most post will become Prime Minister.
2. If there is a vacancy in the office of the President, the Prime Minister shall nominate a President, who shall take office upon confirmation by a majority vote of the Parliamentary.
3.No person shall be elected to the office of Prime Minister more than twice consecutively.
4.Whenever the Prime Minister transmits to the Parliamentary his written declaration that he is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, and until he transmits to them a written declaration to the contrary, such powers and duties shall be discharged by the President as Acting Prime Minister.


How does that sound for the Prime Minister?
Logged
Purple State
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 6,713
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #6 on: April 03, 2009, 02:49:23 pm »

We will need to define the role of the PM. It can't just be left to the Parliament or they will saddle the PM with a bunch of responsibilities and no powers. We need to establish a situation in which the PM really runs the show, so that it is a coveted position and requires compromise and party coalitions to get one going.
Logged
Devilman88
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 2,498


Political Matrix
E: 5.94, S: 2.61

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #7 on: April 03, 2009, 02:52:17 pm »

We will need to define the role of the PM. It can't just be left to the Parliament or they will saddle the PM with a bunch of responsibilities and no powers. We need to establish a situation in which the PM really runs the show, so that it is a coveted position and requires compromise and party coalitions to get one going.

I understand, I really don't know the true role of a PM in other countries, but what I post is just a starting outline and can be changed.
Logged
Lief 🐋
Lief
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 40,559
Dominica


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #8 on: April 03, 2009, 05:04:06 pm »

I think a better idea that starting to draft the actual constitution immediately, would be to start with an outline or sorts, breaking down the different offices/bodies and the powers given to each. So, to begin with, we have:

The Legislature
     Prime Minister
     Cabinet
President
Judiciary

So, starting with the Legislature...

Composition and Elections
1) The Parliament (other suggestions for names?) shall be composed of 15 Members of Parliament (MPs). It could be higher, if we like, but I think an odd number (so 15, 17, or 19) is best, so as to prevent a tied Senate when selecting the Prime Minister.
2) All fifteen MPs will be elected at the same time, in elections held no more than two weeks after the weekend after dissolution of the parliament.
3) The parliament is dissolved by a majority vote of no confidence against the current government (the Prime Minister and his cabinet), a majority vote in favor of dissolution at the Prime Minister's discretion, or four months after the last election, whichever comes first.
4) MPs are elected through a nationwide proportional vote, to last for three days.

How we do the election is a difficult topic. We could do some combination of regional voting and nationwide voting (kind of a mixed member system), we could do the current STV vote, but with all 15 Senators (I don't think this would really work, but I may be wrong), we could do a nationwide proportional vote by party list (I kind of like this), etc.

My suggestion would be party lists, as that would make the most sense, is not very different from the nationwide elections we have now, and would strengthen the parties by a great deal (something I'm very supportive of and which is somewhat essential to having a functioning parliamentary system).

Thoughts would be welcome.

Powers

These should essentially be the same as the current Senate's, I would think. It would depend in large part on whether or not we choose to preserve the regions, as I feel that federalism would be somewhat silly if we didn't have regional governments to pass things the national government could not, but, as I said, that's for a later discussion.

The Government

1) The Prime Minister of Atlasia and the Cabinet of Atlasia are elected from and responsible to the Parliament.
2) The Prime Minister is nominated, from among the elected MPs, by the President. He must then be confirmed by a majority vote from the Parliament.
3) The Prime Minister shall serve as the Head of Government and shall set the agenda of the Parliament.
4) The Prime Minister, upon assuming office, shall appoint a Cabinet from among the elected members of parliament. Members of cabinet are responsible first and foremost to the Prime Minister, and may be dismissed at his discretion. Members of cabinet may also be dismissed by a majority vote of the parliament.
5) The Prime Minister may be removed from office by a majority vote of no confidence. A motion of no confidence must be supported by 1/5 of the parliament before it is put up to vote. Petitions to hold a vote of no confidence may be presented no more often that every two weeks. If a majority of the parliament votes against the Prime Minister during the vote of no confidence (a loss of confidence), the Parliament is immediately dissolved. No confidence motions may also be requested by the President. If the Prime Minister loses the vote of no confidence, he may not be re-appointed after the elections.
6) The Prime Minister, with a majority vote of the parliament, may dissolve the parliament.

I'm probably forgetting some incredibly important things, so if I am point them out. I'll also add more later. Remember that isn't the constitution or the proposed constitution; just notes and outlines, that we can debate, before writing it up as a more formal constitutional proposal.
Logged
Purple State
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 6,713
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #9 on: April 03, 2009, 05:09:39 pm »

I don't intend on starting anything immediately. Basically, for now debate is more what's needed to figure out these structures and such. What you are doing is pretty much exactly what I want. There are clearly outlined parts to each form of government, so proposals and ideas (that are clearly delineated, as you did) are perfect for getting discussion going.
Logged
Purple State
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 6,713
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #10 on: April 03, 2009, 05:15:10 pm »

Regarding your ideas Lief, I think we need to find some way for Cabinet members to play a real, substantive role in debate. Right now certain positions play almost no role. I would like a Cabinet, not forced to be made of MPs, that has a Secretary for certain issues who can actually play a part, serve a purpose. Otherwise all we need is a SoFA and an AG.
Logged
Marokai Backbeat
Marokai Blue
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 17,489
United States


Political Matrix
E: -7.42, S: -7.39


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #11 on: April 04, 2009, 06:27:01 am »

I don't want to draw up part of an article on executive powers just yet not quite knowing what they would/should have. What powers should the President and Prime Minister have individually and what powers would they hold that would contrast with the other?
Logged
Devilman88
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 2,498


Political Matrix
E: 5.94, S: 2.61

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #12 on: April 04, 2009, 01:20:56 pm »

What type of powers do PMs normally have? Also I think it would be best if the President symbol of the country, with little power.
Logged
Hash
Hashemite
Moderators
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 31,886
Cuba


WWW Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #13 on: April 04, 2009, 02:16:33 pm »

What type of powers do PMs normally have? Also I think it would be best if the President symbol of the country, with little power.

Prime Ministerial powers depend on the country you're looking at.
Logged
Devilman88
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 2,498


Political Matrix
E: 5.94, S: 2.61

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #14 on: April 04, 2009, 02:23:46 pm »

What type of powers do PMs normally have? Also I think it would be best if the President symbol of the country, with little power.

Prime Ministerial powers depend on the country you're looking at.

Well, why not just make it like the US Presidential powers? Head of State, Head of Military, Head of the Courts etc.
Logged
Associate Justice PiT
PiT (The Physicist)
Moderators
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 28,848
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #15 on: April 04, 2009, 03:13:06 pm »

What type of powers do PMs normally have? Also I think it would be best if the President symbol of the country, with little power.

Prime Ministerial powers depend on the country you're looking at.

     We could base it off of France, as they are a prominent country with a powerful President & a Prime Minister.
Logged
Hash
Hashemite
Moderators
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 31,886
Cuba


WWW Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #16 on: April 04, 2009, 03:15:45 pm »

What type of powers do PMs normally have? Also I think it would be best if the President symbol of the country, with little power.

Prime Ministerial powers depend on the country you're looking at.

     We could base it off of France, as they are a prominent country with a powerful President & a Prime Minister.

Semi-presidential then?

What type of powers do PMs normally have? Also I think it would be best if the President symbol of the country, with little power.

Prime Ministerial powers depend on the country you're looking at.

Well, why not just make it like the US Presidential powers? Head of State, Head of Military, Head of the Courts etc.

What would the President be then?
Logged
Associate Justice PiT
PiT (The Physicist)
Moderators
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 28,848
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #17 on: April 04, 2009, 03:22:34 pm »

What type of powers do PMs normally have? Also I think it would be best if the President symbol of the country, with little power.

Prime Ministerial powers depend on the country you're looking at.

     We could base it off of France, as they are a prominent country with a powerful President & a Prime Minister.

Semi-presidential then?

     Pretty much.
Logged
Devilman88
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 2,498


Political Matrix
E: 5.94, S: 2.61

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #18 on: April 04, 2009, 03:25:17 pm »

What type of powers do PMs normally have? Also I think it would be best if the President symbol of the country, with little power.

Prime Ministerial powers depend on the country you're looking at.

     We could base it off of France, as they are a prominent country with a powerful President & a Prime Minister.

Semi-presidential then?

What type of powers do PMs normally have? Also I think it would be best if the President symbol of the country, with little power.

Prime Ministerial powers depend on the country you're looking at.

Well, why not just make it like the US Presidential powers? Head of State, Head of Military, Head of the Courts etc.

What would the President be then?

He could be like the US VP. I don't really know, I'm just throwing Ideas out there, where is more then most delegates are doing.(And I'm not even a delegate.)
Logged
Hash
Hashemite
Moderators
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 31,886
Cuba


WWW Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #19 on: April 04, 2009, 04:01:53 pm »

What type of powers do PMs normally have? Also I think it would be best if the President symbol of the country, with little power.

Prime Ministerial powers depend on the country you're looking at.

     We could base it off of France, as they are a prominent country with a powerful President & a Prime Minister.

Semi-presidential then?

What type of powers do PMs normally have? Also I think it would be best if the President symbol of the country, with little power.

Prime Ministerial powers depend on the country you're looking at.

Well, why not just make it like the US Presidential powers? Head of State, Head of Military, Head of the Courts etc.

What would the President be then?

He could be like the US VP. I don't really know, I'm just throwing Ideas out there, where is more then most delegates are doing.(And I'm not even a delegate.)

If the President is like the American Vice President, then better not have one at all. Have somebody else break ties.

He'd be less relevant than Presidents in most countries with a ceremonial Presidents.
Logged
Hash
Hashemite
Moderators
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 31,886
Cuba


WWW Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #20 on: April 04, 2009, 04:03:27 pm »

What type of powers do PMs normally have? Also I think it would be best if the President symbol of the country, with little power.

Prime Ministerial powers depend on the country you're looking at.

     We could base it off of France, as they are a prominent country with a powerful President & a Prime Minister.

Semi-presidential then?

     Pretty much.

In France, historically, the Prime Minister pretty much deals with most internal stuff, thus meaning all the local crap falls onto his shoulders. The President can stand high by going meet world leaders, taking care of foreign affairs, and visiting poor countries.

Do we really want that? I don't.
Logged
Lief 🐋
Lief
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 40,559
Dominica


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #21 on: April 04, 2009, 04:13:14 pm »

I think that the plan we had devised was that the Prime Minister would be in charge of the legislature, leading legislative initiatives, picking cabinet members (who would function something like American committee chairs), and setting the national policy. The President, on the other hand, would be more of a popular representative of the people, in charge of kind of checking the parliament, given the ability to veto, some legislative abilities (either introducing his own bills in a special legislative slot or putting certain bills up to national referenda), and given some ability over dismissing prime ministers and dissolving parliaments.
Logged
Devilman88
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 2,498


Political Matrix
E: 5.94, S: 2.61

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #22 on: April 04, 2009, 04:15:48 pm »

I think that the plan we had devised was that the Prime Minister would be in charge of the legislature, leading legislative initiatives, picking cabinet members (who would function something like American committee chairs), and setting the national policy. The President, on the other hand, would be more of a popular representative of the people, in charge of kind of checking the parliament, given the ability to veto, some legislative abilities (either introducing his own bills in a special legislative slot or putting certain bills up to national referenda), and given some ability over dismissing prime ministers and dissolving parliaments.

I like this plan right there, it sound better.
Logged
Associate Justice PiT
PiT (The Physicist)
Moderators
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 28,848
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #23 on: April 04, 2009, 04:22:31 pm »

I think that the plan we had devised was that the Prime Minister would be in charge of the legislature, leading legislative initiatives, picking cabinet members (who would function something like American committee chairs), and setting the national policy. The President, on the other hand, would be more of a popular representative of the people, in charge of kind of checking the parliament, given the ability to veto, some legislative abilities (either introducing his own bills in a special legislative slot or putting certain bills up to national referenda), and given some ability over dismissing prime ministers and dissolving parliaments.

     I must say this is better than the alternatives proposed.
Logged
Hash
Hashemite
Moderators
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 31,886
Cuba


WWW Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #24 on: April 04, 2009, 04:22:57 pm »

I think that the plan we had devised was that the Prime Minister would be in charge of the legislature, leading legislative initiatives, picking cabinet members (who would function something like American committee chairs), and setting the national policy. The President, on the other hand, would be more of a popular representative of the people, in charge of kind of checking the parliament, given the ability to veto, some legislative abilities (either introducing his own bills in a special legislative slot or putting certain bills up to national referenda), and given some ability over dismissing prime ministers and dissolving parliaments.

     I must say this is better than the alternatives proposed.

Of course.
Logged
Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length
Logout

Terms of Service - DMCA Agent and Policy - Privacy Policy and Cookies

Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines

© Dave Leip's Atlas of U.S. Elections, LLC