Parliamentary Bicameralism (Discussion Open)

[Devilman88]

     Since this proposal hasn't really sparked much interest, it was suggested that I could use this chance to suggest a few changes. One thing that I'd like to propose would be a fixed federal legislature size of 15 total members: five in the upper house & ten in the lower one. Obviously this would do away with the universal part, but I have ideas for other changes if people will hear it out.

I could live with that, that are you other ideas.

[Devilman88]

     Since this proposal hasn't really sparked much interest, it was suggested that I could use this chance to suggest a few changes. One thing that I'd like to propose would be a fixed federal legislature size of 15 total members: five in the upper house & ten in the lower one. Obviously this would do away with the universal part, but I have ideas for other changes if people will hear it out.

I could live with that, that are you other ideas.

     Among other things I plan to have a significant difference between the houses. As such, only upper house members could propose legislation, but a bill's fate would be decided by one of various lower house committees. This way we can have a bicameral system that is interesting but not excessively slow. There's more to the legislature than that though.

So not every member of the house would get to vote on all the propose legislation, only the house members in the committee that the propose legislation is sent to?

[Devilman88]

I find it very disappointing that delegates are trying to kill this proposal in it's crib. It's not even officially been considered yet. Goodness sakes.

It seems to me alot of delegates want it there way or the highway.

[Devilman88]

What do you want to come out of the discussion? Shouldn't you go ahead and pick one of the three that is out and then work on making more details for that one. It is going to be very hard for you to get people to go in to details on all three.

Just trying to get things moving. Sorry if I am over stepping...

[Devilman88]

So far, I believe this new Parliamentary Bicameralism is the best. I also think it would do some good to work on the regions now too for this plan. (I have a plan for the regions I think would be good, so let me know when you want to start talking about regions and their governments.)

[Devilman88]

My plan is this:

1. Reduce the Regions to 3 regions. Each region would have close to the same amount of members in it. Also every April and October the region's lines can be changed if needed to equal out the number of members.

2. Each region would act like a state. They will have there own constitution and their own laws, etc.

3. Each region must have a Head of Region(what they call it is up to each region), and an Assembly of three to five members(up to the region), both the HoR and the Assembly member are elected by the people of that region. (It is up to each region when and how many times a year they are elected.)

4. The Assembly will act like a mini senate, they will come up with bills, debate bills etc. The Assembly will be open to all members of that region so members can give bills and debate bills but the Assembly members are the only ones that can pass a bill. Once passed it go to the HoR and is signed or vetoed.

5. The Head of Region would be the person who is in charge of holding elections, signing/vetoing bills and keeping the Assembly member in order. Also if an Assembly member resign the HoR would take that members place until they elected another member.

[Devilman88]

This is a map of the three region based on population:

Red: 36
Blue: 36
Green: 38

[Devilman88]

The outline for Presidential Universalism shall hereby be renamed Parliamentary Bicameralism and read,

"Small Senate (5ish) with power to originate amend legislation
Relatively large Parliament (15ish) with power to originate legislation
PM elected by both houses, presents agenda, followed by NC vote
PM appoints Cabinet members (either office holders or not)
Possible committees in the Parliament, with chairmen and some form of markup?
President with power to dissolve Parliament, but not Senate (I threw this in. It sorta gives the Senate that more regal feel as well)"

So you want detail on how all that would work?

[Devilman88]

The best bet is to work on the style of government first I think. The questions about regions, bill of rights, etc. should be left for the wrap-up towards the end, or as they are needed.

Right now the most important aspects are the Executive and Legislative branches.

Actually, I think deciding the regional question pretty early is a good idea; that way there will be a better idea of how many posts will be elected.  This is operating on the assumption that non-universalists have a number of offices they consider "appropriate" to exist; if regions are scrapped, then the size of the national government (and thus the composition of the legislature) will have to expand, whereas if regions are kept (and perhaps with the modifications described here), the size of the national government should be decreased.  Perhaps if people have radically different ideas on the thought we could split them into different threads.

I was thinking the number of regions would be based around the seats. But if you want to do the regions first, then go for it.

I would think the best idea for the regions is 3, that way you can have a Senate of 5 seats (3 regional, 2 national at-large) and 12 lower house seats (6 regional, 6 national). This works well because we can have the PM elected by a combination of both houses and it gives us an odd number of reps.

What does everyone think? Use that as a starting point to draw up some Articles and debate it.

I think that would be good. I can draw up a few maps of regions if you guys want me to.

[Devilman88]

Removing regions allows us to concentrate on national governance, which is much more fun, enjoyable and active, and it includes everyone, rather than just the people who happen to be in the one or two regions that are temporarily seeing a burst of activity.

And we don't have to make 12 at large seats. We can do a proportional, party list election (something I'm very partial to), we can divide the election into half nationwide seats, half district-elected, etc. I'm not against keeping regions as territories or electoral districts, as I said; I'm merely against giving them in game governments.

What about the people that aren't in national government? What are they suppose to do? Sit there and watch others? If you have regions with assemblies were every citizens can join in then it will keep people active.

[Devilman88]

Article _

Section 1: Regional Government
1. The Regions may elect a Head of State as chief executive officer however no Head of State member may be elected for a term of more than six months.
2. A Region must have an Assembly of at least three members.
    a. The Assembly will be the legislature of each Region.
    b. The Assembly must be open to all citizens within that Region to help in making bills and debates  etc, but the Assembly members are the only ones that can pass a bill.
3. A Region may establish a judiciary for itself; However, if they choose not to, the federal Supreme Court shall arbitrate in all election disputes, but only insofar as Regional Law may provide.
4.Regions are autonomous of the federal government and may govern themselves and their elections as they wish, except where otherwise provided for in this Constitution.

Section 2: Regional Boundaries

1. There will only be three Regions in Atlasia.
2. The Senate and Parliament will seat the boundaries of the regions every June.
3. The consent of the Senate and Parliament is required for any change in Region boundaries.
4. In the event that a new State joins the Republic of Atlasia, the Senate and Parliament may apportion this State to a Region

[Devilman88]

     Good, though you should change "United States of America" to "Republic of Atlasia." That's more in step with what's been done historically in Atlasia.

Wow, I can't believe I put the United States of America!!! I guess it's late.

[Devilman88]

Sounds great, what is the next step?

[Devilman88]

Sounds great, what is the next step?

I'm going to wait for some comment by other delegates and hopefully bring it to a vote tomorrow afternoon or night.

Sounds like a plan.

[Devilman88]

It seems to me that all the delegate are so willing to vote out ideas, but no delegate want to put ideas out there. I mean we can't even get the delegates to participate and people are pushing for Universalism.

[Devilman88]

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What if we change it to this?

[Devilman88]

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What if we change it to this?

I think it still encroaches too much on regional autonomy. Regions should be allowed to choose whatever type of government they please. Doing so will encourage more participation in regional government and thereby foment activity.

No it wouldn't, right now we can make our own government for the regions and all but one are dead. My Assembly idea is the best way to get people active in regional government, but people shot that down.

[Devilman88]

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What if we change it to this?

I think it still encroaches too much on regional autonomy. Regions should be allowed to choose whatever type of government they please. Doing so will encourage more participation in regional government and thereby foment activity.

No it wouldn't, right now we can make our own government for the regions and all but one are dead. My Assembly idea is the best way to get people active in regional government, but people shot that down.

     Partially because regions should decide on their government. If the citizens of one region want to be run as a monarchy, they should have the ability to do so. Besides, if another, better alternative avails itself they should not be locked into having regional assemblies.

I agree...what goes on in a region is the region's business. It doesn't even necessarily need to have a government if it doesn't want to.

But the point of this is to get more people active right? Well, the best way to do that is to have something they can get active in. If we have assemblies where citizens can help form bills they will stick around and become more active. Like when I came here, if there wasn't an assembly where I could be active in, I would have left. This isn't about giving each region the right to pick their government, it is about trying to bring more active members to the board.

[Devilman88]

I think it would be wise to begin working on this from the offices first, before we move on to holdovers like regions, Bill of Rights, etc.

We can always go back and amend these as things come up, but it would be best to get the real body of the proposal fleshed out. Anyone want to write up an article or two?

I can try to write something tomorrow, I'm to sleepy to write on right now.

[Devilman88]

Article _: The Congress of Atlasia

Section 1: Formation of the Senate

1. Any person who is registered as a citizen of Atlasia, has more then two hundred posts and doesn't hold any other office in Atlasia shall eligible to hold a Senate Seat in Atlasia.

2. The Senate shall be made up of five members, one elected from each region. ( If we have three regions then one from each region and two at-large)

 3. The Senate shall elect a PPT who shall be responsible for chairing debate that occurs within the Senate and managing every day business.

Section 2: Formation of the House

1. Any person who is registered as a citizen of Atlasia, has more then one hundred posts and does not hold a Federal or Head of Region office shall be eligible to hold a House Seat in Atlasia.

2. The House shall be made up of fifteen members, three elected from each region. (If we have three regions then three from each region and six at-large)

3.  The House shall elect a Speaker of the House who shall be responsible for chairing debate that occurs within the House and managing every day business.
   i. The SoH must be a member of the party who has the most members in the House.


Some one needs to just add the powers of the Senate and House and we are on our way.

[Devilman88]

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?!? You can't even run if you hold another office? Jesus Christ.

1. Any person who is registered as a citizen of Atlasia, has more then one hundred posts and does not hold a Federal or Head of Region office shall be eligible to run for a House Seat in Atlasia.

See above.

[/quote]

I worded that wrong, I was trying to say you can't hold two office if you are a senator. But you could be a House member and hold another office as long as it isn't a senate or head of state(governor).

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I don't see why a guy that only chairs debate and does day to day procedural stuff should be a partisan position.


[/quote]

That can be changed, I just think it would spice things up.

[Devilman88]

I changed it from run to hold.

[Devilman88]

     I don't see any reason why the powers of Congress should be any different from what they are under the current Constitution.

I was thinking the same thing, but maybe giving the Senate more power then the House, or something like that. I'm not good at make the powers out. If anyone wants to make that out it would be great.

[Devilman88]

Article _: The Congress of Atlasia

Section 1: Formation of the Senate

1. Any person who is registered as a citizen of Atlasia, has more then two hundred posts and doesn't hold any other office in Atlasia shall be eligible to hold a Senate Seat in Atlasia.

2. The Senate shall be made up of five members, one elected from each region. ( If we have three regions then one from each region and two at-large)

 3. The Senate shall elect a PPT who shall be responsible for chairing debate that occurs within the Senate and managing every day business.

Section 2: Formation of the House

1. Any person who is registered as a citizen of Atlasia, has more then one hundred posts and does not hold a Federal or Head of Region office shall be eligible to hold a House Seat in Atlasia.

2. The House shall be made up of fifteen members, three elected from each region. (If we have three regions then three from each region and six at-large)

3.  The House shall elect a Speaker of the House who shall be responsible for chairing debate that occurs within the House and managing every day business.

Section 3 . Powers of the Congress
[insert the current Article 1, Section 5 here]

Section 4. Powers denied to the Congress
[insert the current Article 1, Section 6 here]

Section 5. Powers denied to the Regions
[insert the current Article 1, Section 7 here]
But change Section 7 number 2 of Article 1 to the following:
"No Region can issues coins/currencies or repeal coins/currencies issues by the Congree of Atlasia."


How is that?

[Devilman88]

That seems like something we can work with. Needs to be more hashed out, but a good start.

What needs to be changed? I can work with it.