Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
November 17, 2019, 05:09:30 pm
News: 2020 Presidential Predictions (Primary) are now active.

  Atlas Forum
  General Politics
  U.S. General Discussion (Moderators: TG, Associate Justice PiT, Gass3268)
  oh louisiana.
« previous next »
Pages: 1 2 [3] Print
Author Topic: oh louisiana.  (Read 3258 times)
Smash255
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 14,905


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #50 on: May 28, 2009, 05:52:29 pm »

Even in the poorer areas of Long Island (Hempstead, Roosevelt, Wyandanch) while it does have some crime it is still quite a bit below what other areas with similar poverty rates have.  Fact of the matter is gun registration and stringent background checks won't keep guns out of the hands of law abiding citizens.

Registration and background checks are fine, and besides the point of whether people should be allowed to carry guns legally on campus. The discussion here is whether law abiding citizens, who jump through the proper hoops, should be allowed to defend themselves on campuses.

Which I don't think should be the case, but for the most part the areas these laws are passed are in states with very loose gun laws where any nut job can go to a gun show and legally purchase a gun with little or no checks.

Shooters find a way to get guns, anyway. Notice VT and Columbine did not allow guns. That did not help.

In the VT case the kid who had previous mental issues was able to legally by the gun due to the lax gun laws.
Logged
Zarn
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 3,820


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #51 on: May 28, 2009, 06:52:32 pm »

Even in the poorer areas of Long Island (Hempstead, Roosevelt, Wyandanch) while it does have some crime it is still quite a bit below what other areas with similar poverty rates have.  Fact of the matter is gun registration and stringent background checks won't keep guns out of the hands of law abiding citizens.

Registration and background checks are fine, and besides the point of whether people should be allowed to carry guns legally on campus. The discussion here is whether law abiding citizens, who jump through the proper hoops, should be allowed to defend themselves on campuses.

Which I don't think should be the case, but for the most part the areas these laws are passed are in states with very loose gun laws where any nut job can go to a gun show and legally purchase a gun with little or no checks.

Shooters find a way to get guns, anyway. Notice VT and Columbine did not allow guns. That did not help.

In the VT case the kid who had previous mental issues was able to legally by the gun due to the lax gun laws.

You aren't quite getting it are you? He was not allowed to have a gun on campus. He still brought it. Obviously, he was not worried about a possession charge.
Logged
Jacobtm
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 3,220


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #52 on: May 28, 2009, 07:24:39 pm »
« Edited: May 28, 2009, 07:31:34 pm by Jacobtm »

Zarn, you and Smash seem to be talking around each other. We're talking about letting people bring guns to campus with the idea that it would stop school shootings, since anyone can buy a gun/bring it to campus as they want. He's just arguing that people shouldn't be allowed to buy guns as freely in the first place, hoping that putting restrictions on the legal supply would preempt school shootings.

Unfortunately Smash, I think that people who want to shoot up a school wouldn't be stopped by restrictions on sales either. If your intent is to kill people then kill yourself, you don't care about getting guns legally or illegally.

Granted, the VT shooter got his gun legally. Why wouldn't he? It's easy enough, and his intention was suicidal, so he didn't care about being linked to the shootings after.

But if guns were illegal, or he couldn't buy one because of his mental instabilities, do you think he would've just said "aww, shucks" and gone to class peacefully? Just like alcohol during prohibition, and drugs now, guns can be bought illegally. And if they're made harder to buy legally, that will just mean demand gets shifted over to the black market. It'd probably reduce the number of normal people with no murderous intentions who own guns, but would it stop people who really wanted it from getting them?
Logged
Smash255
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 14,905


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #53 on: May 28, 2009, 08:33:30 pm »

Zarn, you and Smash seem to be talking around each other. We're talking about letting people bring guns to campus with the idea that it would stop school shootings, since anyone can buy a gun/bring it to campus as they want. He's just arguing that people shouldn't be allowed to buy guns as freely in the first place, hoping that putting restrictions on the legal supply would preempt school shootings.

Unfortunately Smash, I think that people who want to shoot up a school wouldn't be stopped by restrictions on sales either. If your intent is to kill people then kill yourself, you don't care about getting guns legally or illegally.

Granted, the VT shooter got his gun legally. Why wouldn't he? It's easy enough, and his intention was suicidal, so he didn't care about being linked to the shootings after.

But if guns were illegal, or he couldn't buy one because of his mental instabilities, do you think he would've just said "aww, shucks" and gone to class peacefully? Just like alcohol during prohibition, and drugs now, guns can be bought illegally. And if they're made harder to buy legally, that will just mean demand gets shifted over to the black market. It'd probably reduce the number of normal people with no murderous intentions who own guns, but would it stop people who really wanted it from getting them?

It still makes it much easier for them to get the hands on the gun in the 1st place.  I don't see any  reason to allow gus on campus, simply to many things can go wrong.  However, if you are going to allow it you need to have restrictions to prevent some nutcase such as the kid involved in the VT tragedy from legally purchasing guns.  Very little of these restrictions exist in the areas that are allowing them  on campus.
Logged
Oh Jeremy Corbyn!
unempprof
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 3,635


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #54 on: May 28, 2009, 08:46:40 pm »

Can I ask something?

Are there any cases in which you gun nuts believe gun control should exist?  Because my impression is that you believe guns should be allowed EVERYWHERE and frankly it's your inability to compromise that makes it so hard to have a real discussion with you people.
Logged
Brandon H
brandonh
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 4,308
United States


Political Matrix
E: 3.48, S: 1.74

WWW Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #55 on: May 28, 2009, 11:04:02 pm »

Local news reported that this failed.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/L/LA_XGR_GUNS_ON_CAMPUS_LAOL-?SITE=WWLAM&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT
Logged
Zarn
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 3,820


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #56 on: May 28, 2009, 11:05:49 pm »

Zarn, you and Smash seem to be talking around each other. We're talking about letting people bring guns to campus with the idea that it would stop school shootings, since anyone can buy a gun/bring it to campus as they want. He's just arguing that people shouldn't be allowed to buy guns as freely in the first place, hoping that putting restrictions on the legal supply would preempt school shootings.

Unfortunately Smash, I think that people who want to shoot up a school wouldn't be stopped by restrictions on sales either. If your intent is to kill people then kill yourself, you don't care about getting guns legally or illegally.

Granted, the VT shooter got his gun legally. Why wouldn't he? It's easy enough, and his intention was suicidal, so he didn't care about being linked to the shootings after.

But if guns were illegal, or he couldn't buy one because of his mental instabilities, do you think he would've just said "aww, shucks" and gone to class peacefully? Just like alcohol during prohibition, and drugs now, guns can be bought illegally. And if they're made harder to buy legally, that will just mean demand gets shifted over to the black market. It'd probably reduce the number of normal people with no murderous intentions who own guns, but would it stop people who really wanted it from getting them?

I know what he was saying.

Apparently, you didn't know what I was saying.

Why do even people "on my side" cherry pick what I say?
Logged
dead0man
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 34,957
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #57 on: May 28, 2009, 11:18:11 pm »

Which I don't think should be the case, but for the most part the areas these laws are passed are in states with very loose gun laws where any nut job can go to a gun show and legally purchase a gun with little or no checks.
Odd that these places have low gun crime too heh?
Logged
dead0man
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 34,957
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #58 on: May 28, 2009, 11:22:52 pm »

Can I ask something?

Are there any cases in which you gun nuts believe gun control should exist?  Because my impression is that you believe guns should be allowed EVERYWHERE and frankly it's your inability to compromise that makes it so hard to have a real discussion with you people.
Yes, crazy people shouldn't have guns nor ex-fellons that used a gun to commit a crime.  Explosives should be highly restricted, as should fully automatic weapons.  Guns shouldn't be allowed inside of businesses, homes or other private property if the owner of the property doesn't want them there.

You want more compromise, change the Constitution.
Logged
Oh Jeremy Corbyn!
unempprof
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 3,635


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #59 on: May 28, 2009, 11:26:18 pm »

Can I ask something?

Are there any cases in which you gun nuts believe gun control should exist?  Because my impression is that you believe guns should be allowed EVERYWHERE and frankly it's your inability to compromise that makes it so hard to have a real discussion with you people.
Yes, crazy people shouldn't have guns nor ex-fellons that used a gun to commit a crime.  Explosives should be highly restricted, as should fully automatic weapons.  Guns shouldn't be allowed inside of businesses, homes or other private property if the owner of the property doesn't want them there.

You want more compromise, change the Constitution.

I would if I could but unfortunately the democrats are no better than republicans on this issue.  But hey at least you're willing to make some compromises.
Logged
Associate Justice PiT
PiT (The Physicist)
Moderator
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 28,847
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #60 on: May 29, 2009, 12:03:15 am »

Can I ask something?

Are there any cases in which you gun nuts believe gun control should exist?  Because my impression is that you believe guns should be allowed EVERYWHERE and frankly it's your inability to compromise that makes it so hard to have a real discussion with you people.
Yes, crazy people shouldn't have guns nor ex-fellons that used a gun to commit a crime.  Explosives should be highly restricted, as should fully automatic weapons.  Guns shouldn't be allowed inside of businesses, homes or other private property if the owner of the property doesn't want them there.

You want more compromise, change the Constitution.

     I pretty much agree with this, though I would distinguish that explosives should be subject to a higher level of restriction than automatic weapons, as explosives are basically impossible to use for self-defense purposes. An M4A1 at least could be used to defend a house from a home invasion robber, even if it is extremely excessive for the task.
Logged
dead0man
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 34,957
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #61 on: May 29, 2009, 01:21:48 am »

Sure.  Large hurdles to jump over to have access to either....as there should be.
Logged
Smash255
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 14,905


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #62 on: May 29, 2009, 12:12:15 pm »

Which I don't think should be the case, but for the most part the areas these laws are passed are in states with very loose gun laws where any nut job can go to a gun show and legally purchase a gun with little or no checks.
Odd that these places have low gun crime too heh?

Louisiana??
Logged
Tetro Kornbluth
Gully Foyle
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 12,811
Ireland, Republic of


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #63 on: May 29, 2009, 12:17:48 pm »

You know the most disturbing aspect of this thread is no-one seems to be tackling the essential issue, how wants to grow up and go to school in an enviornment where gun ownership (and perhaps flagrant waving-it-in-the-face gun ownership at that) is seen as crucial for individual safety? The Klebold and Harris's of this world have already won if that is the case.
Logged
Jacobtm
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 3,220


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #64 on: May 29, 2009, 12:22:54 pm »

Can I ask something?

Are there any cases in which you gun nuts believe gun control should exist?  Because my impression is that you believe guns should be allowed EVERYWHERE and frankly it's your inability to compromise that makes it so hard to have a real discussion with you people.

Of course we should make it so that criminals, mentally unstable people, minors etc. can't get guns legally, but the problem is that as long as firearms are produced, people will trade them illegally, and if law-abiding people of sound mind want to defend themselves, I think it should be allowed.
Logged
Tetro Kornbluth
Gully Foyle
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 12,811
Ireland, Republic of


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #65 on: May 29, 2009, 12:26:06 pm »

This whole thread... and all gun control related threads refer to fantasy terms which have no anchor at all in the stuff we call reality like "gun nuts", "weirdos", "psychopaths" and of course the perrienal favourites "law abiding people". Quite frankly given the sort of people that usually imagined under the term "law abiding people" or even worse "law abiding Americans" or "good Americans" I hope never to meet one in my whole life.
Logged
2,868,691
Harry
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 23,855
Ukraine


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #66 on: May 29, 2009, 01:47:10 pm »

At the very least there should be some kind of strict liscensing/training program that people have to pass before they're allowed to carry a gun on campus (or anywhere else).  That way, you don't have idiots trying to be a "hero" not knowing what they're doing.
Logged
dead0man
YaBB God
*****
Posts: 34,957
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #67 on: May 30, 2009, 03:51:37 am »

At the very least there should be some kind of strict liscensing/training program that people have to pass before they're allowed to carry a gun on campus (or anywhere else).  That way, you don't have idiots trying to be a "hero" not knowing what they're doing.
That is exactly what is going on.  From the second paragraph from the OP's link.
Quote
You must be logged in to read this quote.
So you can't carry on campus unless you have a concealed carry license.  To get that license, here are the rules:
Quote
You must be logged in to read this quote.
Logged
Pages: 1 2 [3] Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length
Logout

Terms of Service - DMCA Agent and Policy - Privacy Policy and Cookies

Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines

© Dave Leip's Atlas of U.S. Elections, LLC