GOP Sees California as winnable

[California Dreamer]

all you have to do in California...(not that you will ever have to) is run an ad reminding people about Roe v Wade and the fact that we havent had a new justice in like 11 years (which is a record)

...in fact I would like to see the dems use a womans right to choose the way the republicans are using gay marraige (since the majority of americans support choice)



...we can play the culture war too

[opebo]

all you have to do in California...(not that you will ever have to) is run an ad reminding people about Roe v Wade and the fact that we havent had a new justice in like 11 years (which is a record)

...in fact I would like to see the dems use a womans right to choose the way the republicans are using gay marraige (since the majority of americans support choice)

The Culture War favours us in the electoral college.  'Right to Choose' plays well in states worth about 260 EC, while 'RIght to Life' plays well in states worth about 278 EC.



...we can play the culture war too

[angus]

all you have to do in California...(not that you will ever have to) is run an ad reminding people about Roe v Wade and the fact that we havent had a new justice in like 11 years (which is a record)

...in fact I would like to see the dems use a womans right to choose the way the republicans are using gay marraige (since the majority of americans support choice)



...we can play the culture war too

Do you actually believe that if Roe v Wade was overturned it would make any difference in your life whatsoever?  I just want to know whether you're a fool or a liar.  Look, man.  I think abortion should be safe, legal, and federally funded (clearly a one-time shot of $400 is a helluva lot better deal than fifty thousand over the next eighteen years.)  Frankly, every republican I know does too.  But why the  are we still debating this anyway?

Oh, yeah, now I remember.  Thanks for reminding me how utterly nasty and underhanded the Dems are.  And as soon as I get my confederate battle flag out of the dry-cleaners, I'm going to yeson57and58 rally.  Maybe you'll counterdemonstrate?  

[California Dreamer]

without Roe v Wade I would have 3 unwanted children...as would many people...or have been forced to backroom illegal dangerous abortions.

the fact is that it is the policy of the Republican party to remove a woman's right to choose, and if Bush had the chance he would put someone on the court who would do just that.


...so fly your confederate flag high, it makes the right seem so inclusive

[MarkDel]

California Dreamer,

Look, I'm pro-choice, but three abortions??? Let me know when your birthday is and I'll spring for some freakin' condoms...

[angus]

No sir, without Roe v Wade you would not!  That is exactly the mischaracterization the Democrats have successfully pursued for years!  You really should look it up.  I, too, am ardently pro-choice, as are most of the republicans I know personally.  I know I'm a smartass most of the time but I was dead serious about that.  Man, this is what really steams me.  This is why I'm a republican.  The lies, mischaracterizations, and general misleading of the Left leaves me exasperated.  Your general lack of wisdom is exceeded only by your bigotry.

[MarkDel]

Angus,

The biggest reason I'm a Republican is foreign policy and national defense, but if you take that out of the equation, my being a Republican is more about politics than it is about policy...and I think that's exactly what you were getting at in your last post.

By the way, I love your posts when you're serious...please be serious more often...LOL

[California Dreamer]

I suggest you look up your party's platform

[classical liberal]

I don't think that there is a fundamental freedom from anything that will naturally occur, ie death, pain, and hate.  Otherwise the platform is quite alright.

[angus]

Irreverence aside, I think we might have a great deal of overlap, markdel.  I have read the constitution many many times and try very hard to interpret it.  Everyone looks at me strange when I say bush is a liberal, or I support abortion rights, or I oppose the currently proposed amendment, but I consider myself rather conservative fiscally.  On foreign policy, you and I may have some disagreement.  Mine are summed up by NHpolitico's signature file.  Part of the reason I'm a republican has to do with my love for personal liberty, appointment of constructionist judges (whether or not I agree with them), and national defense.   But a big part of the reason for me is a rejection of the intolerance and narrow-mindedness of the Left.  You're talking to someone who voted for the Duke in '88 and Clinton in '92 and'96.  I may be a newly converted Republican, but I am not a soft Republican.  And I do love my country.

[MarkDel]

Angus,

Yes, the left's mantra seems to be "We will not tolerate those people who are intolerant"

Just out of curiousity, based on what you said about judicial styles, I assume you are a big fan of people like Scalia or Bork?

[angus]

scalia's a special case.  yes, bork was shafted.  No one deserved the treatment he (or Thomas, for that matter) received at the hands of the Democrats.

[MarkDel]

California Dreamer,

I don't have to agree with everything the party says. By the way, if it's not too personal, how in the hell can you end up having three abortions? I understand mistakes happen, but it's a surgical procedure, not a form of retroactive contraception.

[MarkDel]

Angus,

True. The Bork hearings were incredible and changed the landscape of American politics forever. The way the Democrats behaved in that timeframe set in motion the really ugly partisan behavior that occurred in the 1990's and 21st Century. I was on Capitol Hill the next year at the John Tower confirmation hearings...they were just as bad...the Democrats were just shameless on Capitol Hill when they ran the House and Senate.

[California Dreamer]

From the Republican Party Platform adopted in 2000:
"We say the unborn child has a fundamental right to life. We support a human life amendment to the Constitution and we endorse legislation that the 14th Amendment’s protections apply to unborn children. Our purpose is to have legislative and judicial protection of that right against those who perform abortions. We oppose using public revenues for abortion and will not fund organizations which advocate it. We support the appointment of judges who respect the sanctity of innocent human life. "

...there arent even exceptions for rape or incest. It has gone beyond Roe v Wade in making it a states rights issue and ...it clearly states it wants to make abortions unavailable

This extreme view is out of step with California for sure and the rest of the country.

Most polls show this "illegal in all cases" view is only supported by less than 20% of the population.  And 54% support the Rove v Wade decision . Even a Fox News poll showed that only 26% support overturning Roe v Wade

for more abortion polls see: http://www.pollingreport.com/abortion.htm

...and thanks for all the name calling, how very typical to resort to namecalling, even calling someone a bigot...kind of ironic.

[MarkDel]

California Dreamer,

What the HELL are you talking about??? Where did I engage in any name calling???

[angus]

Okay, here's how I see that.  On a personal note, CaliforniaDreamer, I have been there too.  I have had my girlfriend look me in the eye and say we're pregnant ("We, you got a mouse in your pocket, bitch?").  Been there, done that.  You gotta figure out what's causing that man, and get it fixed!  I'm no biology teacher, but I think I may know.  What I wanted to say was "You're not actually going to have that bastard are you?!"  Harsh, yes.  True, alas.  I'm an irresponsible er, and you shouldn't judge my kind by my irresponsible behavior.  The choice was hers!  

Now, what you may not realize is that those who oppose abortion on principle do so in accordance with deeply held moral beliefs.  They view it as murder.  Do you get that?  Murder!  It's not a joke man, and it's not a cultural war.  I stick my foot in my mouth as much as my president, I'm sure, but I swear to whatever gods there be that I mean no offense.  I know serious religious christians (and others as well) that I'd trust with my life.  I'd close my eyes and let them take me to the ends of the world.  This is not patronization.  This is the truth.  You have never appreciated the freedoms that our forefathers defined, that our brothers have shed the blood for.  I'm not sure I do either, but I'll not have you impugn the deeply held moral beliefs of my countrymen.

[California Dreamer]

Mark I was speaking to Angus who has made a number of personal attacks on me for meerly pointing out:
a. The Republican Party wants to remove a woman's right to choose
b. California sends politicians with this view into the political graveyard


by the way, supporting a woman's right to choose is not impugning another's religious views. They have every right to have those views, and no right to impose them on others.

This is the distinction between the Abortion and Gay Marraige. Pro choice people are exactly that...they support choice. anti gay marraige and pro life people want to impose their life choices on others.

As I have said before I could easily be a republican except for all of these culturual issues where the party wants to get into my bedroom, my viewing habits and my life and tell me what is moral and immoral.

When the Republicans kick these extremists out of the party they will never lose another election because many Dems believe in low taxes and less government and a strong national defense.

And the Proof is how California (which is the subject of this post) just elected a pro choice Republican, but the only way such a republican could have been elected was in an open election, such republicans like Richard Riordan always get killed in the Republican primaries.

[angus]

Indeed I have.  I'm always moaning about the intolerance of the Left, and I do realize my credibility is undermined by my hypocrisy.  I have called Democrats morons, liberals, jackasses, and worse.  It's exactly the vitriol that drove me away from the DNC in the first place.  Did I mention I actively campaigned for Michael Dukakis?  Well, this is a tough issue, you must admit.  And I'm quite sure it fractures my party more so than it does yours.  In my mind, that is further evidence of the Big Tent about which I sardonically spoke in my previous posts.  

I apologize for having spoken in haste and anger, CaliforniaDreamer.  I hope we can continue this productive dialogue.

[MarkDel]

California Dreamer,

Yes, but what Angus is trying to say is that to deeply religious people, an unborn child is a human life no different than yours or mine, so to them, it's not a matter of choice at all.

[California Dreamer]

Hindus consider cows sacred...and wished everyone would stop eating their ancestors.

I respect their beliefs but they dont have the right to keep me out of Burger King.

[angus]

Hindus consider cows sacred...and wished everyone would stop eating their ancestors.

I respect their beliefs but they dont have the right to keep me out of Burger King.

Look, I see your point.  You may be surprised to learn that many of us do.  And your metaphoric description isn't bad.  (well, we could pick apart your definition of respect but) all I'm saying is that this is an example of a snap judgement of the political right.  You actually make a better point by pointing out the platform.  Actually, Barbara and Laura were both specifically stifled on this issue as they disagree with the status quo.  I realize this cuts into my argument about acceptance within the GOP.  So do you.  But that's okay, I want to flay this fish.  Listen to the Zephyr Song by the red hot Chili Peppers.

Oh, and on the Roe v Wade thing, I was emphasizing that it was much like plessy v fergusson (1940s I think, upheld) and brown v board of education arkansas (1954?, overturned) states rights.  In this state, "states rights" would definitely imply that your life isn't affected.  Of course you can read between and outside the lines and say, well someone's life if affected.  No doubt.  

It's late.  I'm stoned.  Let's call it quits for now.  Peace.

[angus]

yes markdel I misseds the signifigance of those two important schools decisions.  Feel free to diatribe  ;0