GERMAN CHANCELLORS SURVIVOR- winner: Willy BRANDT, over Adenauer !

[Hans-im-Glück]

Kurt von Schleicher

[Hans-im-Glück]

Kurt von Schleicher

[Hans-im-Glück]

As for Schleicher, he was the last attempt to avoid Hitler. Sure, not a perfect democrat, but different from Papen, who supported Hitler and took a part in his regime, at least in the beginning.

Both, von Schleicher and von Papen were very bad politicans. There is no big difference. I know there is a book from Friedrich-Karl von Plehwe with the name "Kurt von Schleicher. Weimars letzte Chance gegen Hitler" (Kurt von Schleicher. Weimars last chance against Hitler), but this is more a joke. When Schleicher was the last chance, then there was no chance.

Schleicher and Papen were in the first big friends, after Hindenburg fires Papen they were no friends anymore. Schleicher had a big influence to Hindenburg and with the election of this man it was the beginning of the end.

[Hans-im-Glück]

Kurt von Schleicher

[Hans-im-Glück]

Now it will be more interesting, after all nazi and pre-nazi chancellor are eleminated.

I vote for: Georg Michaelis

He was a very incompetent chancellor.

[Hans-im-Glück]

quote author=Old Europe link=topic=97206.msg2034002#msg2034002 date=1244976283]
Ludwig Erhard

Reason: Mediocre Chancellor. His whole reputation stems from his time as Minister of Economics.
[/quote]

Ludwig Erhard was the worst chancellor after the WW2, but when you see at some chancellor in the empire or Weimar times he wasn't so bad.

Okay, he was a good minister of economics and a bad chancellor, but to vote so early him is to much.

Bismarck

I'm from Bavaria and here exists not so many fans of Bismark (maybe in my region franconia more like in old Bavaria), but he was a very good man.

@ Lewis

Hessen and Frankfurt was in the time before Bismark official independent, but in reality nothing. The big countries like Prussia,  Austria and France make with them what they want. This isn't independent.

[Hans-im-Glück]

Bernhard von Bülow

I think he destroys all relations to the other European powers.

[Hans-im-Glück]

Bernhard von Bülow

[Hans-im-Glück]

Bernhard von Bülow

[Hans-im-Glück]

18. Hans Luther (1925-1926)

[Hans-im-Glück]

Hans Luther

[Hans-im-Glück]

Hertling is tempting in order to finish all those old chancellors, but Hans-im-Glück is right: Luther was an ambassador of Nazi Germany from 1933 to 1937.

So, I vote for Luther.

I vote also for Hans Luther

Not only that he was an ambassador for the Nazi. In his chancellorship he makes many wrong decisions. Maybe he was a good president of the Reichsbank, but as chancellor a terrible politician.

[Hans-im-Glück]

Hertling is tempting in order to finish all those old chancellors, but Hans-im-Glück is right: Luther was an ambassador of Nazi Germany from 1933 to 1937.

So, I vote for Luther.

I vote also for Hans Luther

Not only that he was an ambassador for the Nazi. In his chancellorship he makes many wrong decisions. Maybe he was a good president of the Reichsbank, but as chancellor a terrible politician.

Hertling and Cuno are next on my list !
I'm eager to come to "fine" (or less bad) Weimar and modern chancellors.

That is quite the same like my opinion. Cuno and Herting are on my list the next too. The interesting thing is more what is the list of the democratic Weimar chancellor (especial when comes Brüning) and who's the best of the modern time.

[Hans-im-Glück]

It's no question for me:

Cuno

[Hans-im-Glück]

Georg von Hertling

This round it'll be not close race

[Hans-im-Glück]

No question.

Ludwig Erhard (1963-1966)

He was a good minister of economy, but a very bad chancellor. He had no qualification for this job. He was the worse in the federal republic.

[Hans-im-Glück]

Ludwig Erhard

In the last round it was not fair. Maximilian von Baden was better like many in this forum think. He was for the time he lived a moderate progressive. He makes the way free that germany become to a republic.

[Hans-im-Glück]

I don't vote for Brüning, but it's a good decision.

Now I vote again for:

Ludwig Erhard

[Hans-im-Glück]

Helmut Kohl

[Hans-im-Glück]

Ludwig Erhard

Müller isn't the best, but not so bad. There gives others they must go. Kohl (see what lewis wrote), Stesemann (a big foreign minister, but no good chancellor), Scheel (he wasn't chancellor), Ebert (maybe he was the first president in the Weimar Republic, but he was a bad politician)

[Hans-im-Glück]

Helmut Kohl

A very difficult round... Müller is eventually out.
I have PMed a bit, but more likely voters for Erhard than for Müller, believe me !

ROUND TWENTY IS OPEN

And I vote for Gerhard Schröder.

Maybe leftists would view him as too rightist in his reforms. But, for me, that's not a problem of course.
No, I hated his hugely opportunistic behaviour (Iraq war e.g.).
And I hated his pro-Putin stance and when you end paid by Putin, that's really ugly for the head of the 3rd or 4th economic power in the world...
All this to by-pass poor Poland.

Schröder out !

  That's very funny. There gives many parts to criticise the politics of Schröder, but only in the pro-Putin part you are right. All the other things you said is nonsens.

1) All politicans are opportunistic
2) He made nothing against Poland and when you mean the pipeline than it's more than funny
3) That he don't make your favourite politics is one thing, but he make very difficult reforms against his own party and changes the social system more than Kohl in his time. He risk his majority for economic reforms and this you can say about no other chancellor.

Schröder don't believe the lies from Bush and was against his Iraq War. Yes he used it for his campain, but only a very stupid politician wouldn't do this. Only Republican nutheads are this opinion.

[Hans-im-Glück]

At least, Kohl, who wasn't able to let the place soon enough, who ended too proud of himself, etc, was a real pro-European leader and relaunched the EU with Mitterrand and Delors in a way we have alreadt forgotten.
And Kohl managed well the international aspect of the reunification with Gorbachev and Shevardnadze (the internal side of the story is another thing).

European Union:
Kohl's EU politics wasn't very bad, special for the other countries. He says to everything Okay and Germany must pay it. When I'm from France I see Kohl as a better chancellor, maybe.

German Reunification:
I don't think he made something very good. The politics of him in this time was to react not to operate. Every German Politician, the best and the worst from every party, would do the same.

[Hans-im-Glück]

Kohl

No, I hated his hugely opportunistic behaviour (Irak war e.g.).

You just seem to forget that Chirac, Villepin, Schröder were right and that Bush, Rumsfeld, H. Clinton and Blair were wrong ( or even liars for the first two ) on Iraq. You can't honestly blame someone for having been right just because you supported those who were wrong.

Being "right" doesn't have anything to do with Schröder's opportunism.

@Franzl
He was right in the question of the Iraq war and only this is important. That he is a opportunistic politician is a other problem, but I wrote it before, you can say it about every chancellor.

By the way, Schröder's economic politics was nearly FDP politics. You must love him

[Hans-im-Glück]

Back to Germany and an horrible round for your organizer-in-chief, forced to acknowledge that Kohl is clearly out, even before Fehrenbach, Marx or Scheel... Bouhouhou...

In the last round we had only the choice between Kohl and Schröder. Then it's no surprise that Kohl was eliminated. Bismarck must go earlier and wasn't a bad chancellor. He was better as 50% of the remaining  

This Round:

Walter Scheel

[Hans-im-Glück]

I vote for Ludwig Erhard

He had no qualification as chancellor.