What lead you guys...

[Countess Anya of the North Parish]

What lead you guys to believe or not believe in god? Did your family has an impact?

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

I became a Christian much like Paul did when he was knocked off his horse...it wasn’t by choice, I was called.  In 1992, I was dating a girl (who later became my wife).  She belonged to a Christian church (World Wide Church of God, founded by Herbert Armstrong) which was mixing a lot of the Laws of Moses (unclean foods, Jewish Holy Days) into Christianity.  After a couple of dates, she informed me she wasn’t supposed to be dating outside of her church.  So, I told her I would look into her beliefs.

I was raised a Christian (Catholic), but didn’t practice it, didn’t go to church, and knew only two verses of the bible, Gen 1:1 and John 3:16.  So, I could maybe be categorized a “Christian” for the purpose of a Census, but that is about as far as my Christianity went.

Luckily, I hadn’t been brain-washed enough by the Catholic Church to think I couldn’t interpret the bible myself without the help of the Vatican.  So, I thought, “All these denominations can’t all be right since they have differing beliefs.  I’ll just read the bible and see what it says and let the chips fall where they may, even if it means I can’t date my current girlfriend."

On my very first night of my “research” into the bible, I happened to begin at the book of Galatians.  Which just so happens to be addressed to a near carbon-copy of my girlfriend’s church.

After reading for about an hour, it was obvious that her church’s mixing of the Law of Moses was off-track. And God opened my eyes and I started thinking to myself, “What is the purpose of their deception?”  Then God allowed me to perceive the spiritual battle that was going on in her church’s deception – that there was a battle being waged over the possession of something of value – souls.  That there was a purpose to their deception, that demonic forces were deceiving them to keep them from being saved.

At that point, I got up from the table where I was studying and wept out of joy that I finally believed in Jesus (I guess you can say I believed in Jesus because God allowed me to perceive the forces deceiving my girlfriend’s church).  And I paced my floor of my apartment weeping out of joy that I finally believed.

At that moment I asked a myself a question, “Is this why [my girlfriend and the association with her church] had been brought into my life, so that I would believe?” (I actually used to subscribe to the free magazines her church published when I was a teenager, because I occasionally stumbled upon their broadcast on TV very late at night.  And it just so happened that when I was in college, I became friends with a guy whose dad was a deacon in that church.  And through that friend I became friends with many of the sons of the leadership of that church and they had become my circle of friends for several years and I hung around their families, including their parents, almost every weekend.  It was through them I met my girlfriend at a party and I felt an immediate spiritual attraction to her the first instant I laid eyes on her and I had never felt that before with anyone, much less the first moment of meeting someone.  This really perplexed me because I had always treated women worse than I had treated my cars, and I was hard on my cars.  I kept a close eye on her for a year because she was dating one of my close friends at the time and I was also dating someone.  After a year, neither one of us was dating anyone and I asked her out.  My study began a couple of weeks later.)

So, my question “Is this why [all these things] had been brought into my life, so that I would believe?” was very loaded and included events going back to when I was a teenager.  Immediately after I asked that I received the Holy Spirit and God spoke to me and said, “Yes, that is the reason why.  Now go and tell them the truth.”

Obviously, my revelation from God didn’t sit well with my girlfriend or her parents, or my friends in her church, or the parents of my friends who just happen to be part of the leadership of that church.  To put in mildly, it was as if God had dropped a bomb in my life and my “revelation” sent shockwaves through many families and turned mine upside down.  I had been a non-religious friend to several of the families of the leadership of a church, I had been a guest at their dinner tables dozens upon dozens of times...and now I was coming to them claiming that I, a non-religious person, had a message for them from God that they were deceived.

Through all of it, I saved my girlfriend (who later became my wife) and just of few friends out of that church.  But I also led my mother and step-father to Christ and my brothers still to this day frequently ask me questions about Jesus.

Since my wife’s old church was dabbling in the Law of Moses, I became a student of the Old Testament (OT) as well as the New Testament (NT).  That has helped me realize that the whole NT can be taught from the OT and every NT doctrine has an OT precedent.  This is how the Apostles were able to use the OT as the bible of the first generation of Christians.  That is how the people of Berea were able to use the OT to verify what Paul was teaching: “They examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.” (Acts 17:11)

And since the whole NT can be taught from the OT, Paul commanded the churches “Do not go beyond what is written." (1Cor 4:6)

[Associate Justice PiT]

     Reading Nietzsche & Rorty convinced me to abandon belief in God.

[Countess Anya of the North Parish]

so you believed in one evening? how can that be?

     Reading Nietzsche & Rorty convinced me to abandon belief in God.

care to explain why?

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

so you believed in one evening? how can that be?

Because Christ simply stepped into my life in a way that was more real and tangible than they world we live in.  If you read the book of Acts, there were many near instantaneous conversions.  I didn't go into that night of reading expecting anything to happen, in fact, what happened was so foreign to anything I had heard of or been taught, that I wondered if I were the only one on earth who had ever had such an experience.  But I quickly concluded, based on the fact that God commission to me to “go tell them the truth” wasn’t something that was going to change world events, that I was surely not the only one. I also wondered if it meant I was being called to become a pastor, but that wasn’t the instruction in my commission.

And, in the following weeks, by further reading the bible, I realized what had happened to me was common throughout the New Testament.   

[Associate Justice PiT]

     Reading Nietzsche & Rorty convinced me to abandon belief in God.

care to explain why?

     It made me think about other possibilities & consider that maybe I'm not interested in a metaphysical world view.

[12th Doctor]

While my family is Catholic, my upbringing was not particularly religious.  Those people in my family who did go to Mass (and my mother and I weren't among them) were just going through the motions.  No idea, or doctrine, or even any belief of any kind was actually enforced into my mind at an early age, and until I was around 13-14, I could be best described as disinterested, perhaps bordering on agnostic-believer.

Sometime around the time I entered high school, I started to nose into an interest in the Bible, but I didn't embrace Catholicism.  In fact, at this time, I could probably be best described as a Messianic Jew, as I was far more interested in the Old Testament, but maintained a lose belief in Christ as being the one who fulfilled the prophets.  I still was not entirely convinced that this Jesus was the literal Son of God, and thus literally God.

My lukewarm attitude towards Catholicism changed when I was around 16.  A perfect storm of anti-Catholicism (always a problem in my area) had finally brewed, and a number of Evangelical Ministers went public about "the evils of Catholicism".  A number of tracts started circulating around the area, concerning the "lies of Catholicism" and ones from the infamous Jack Chick started popping up on the doorsteps of me and my friends.  I knew the claims of these pamphlets were ridiculously wrong, but I had no idea why, so I started to investigate what the Catholic Church actually said for itself, rather than what people said about it.

For there, I eventually came to accept the reasoning behind the central teachings of the RCC, and my understanding has continued to develop over the years.

I'm far from an exemplary Catholic, in practice.  I go to mass only about twice a month, but I know plenty of people who go every week, and simply don't have a clue on the teachings, so while I don't think that makes me better than those people, I would say it evens out the score.

[Alcon]

This is a simple, boring post.  I was raised pretty free of religion.  My parents just did not mention it, although being that this is the U.S., I was certainly aware of it.  When I came of the Age of Reason, I started to think about it myself.  Largely back then I was convinced that agnosticism was the obvious choice.  I was unaware of arguments like the First Cause argument that made theism at all reasonable, or...the myriad arguments I think atheism has going for it.  Over time, I looked at the individual arguments, and came to a basic conclusion:  I don't really know if God exists, although the ideas of God as a reflection of the universal flow or whatever (ignosticism) are attractive, but I sincerely doubt the Christian God exists.

Unlike jmfcst, the idea of entering Biblical study under the assumption that the Bible is true seems circular and absurd to me.  Most of the educated philosophical types I know are outright atheists; I am not willing to make that leap.

[afleitch]

No Hallmark Channel special for me.

I was baptised Catholic. And I went to Catholic schools from ages 5-18. I had nothing to rebel against, as the Catholicism I was steeped in, was that of my family and of my Jesuit school environment; it was always non judgemental but self critical. Asking questions of and getting damn well pissed off at the Church was probably part of that. I have a connection with Catholicism and the Catholic rite, but I am distrustful of the hierachy and the Vatican; my connection with individual churches and priests is at a purely local and personal level.

[Bunwahaha [still dunno why, but well, so be it]]

For the historical background:

Personally, it was when I was 7, the school taught me about dinosaurs and so on, what taught us the scientific observations, meanwhile, the catechism in which my mother sent me during 2 years, told me about Genesis, the creation in 7 days and so on... Damn, there were something wrong in one of both, I chose dinosaurs and school, and, even if I keep some distance with what science can say, the History shew us that some interpretations of reality can change, I  had always been reinforced in this choice until now...

Then, I don't believe in what some call "God", because of the analysis I have of my knowledges, of what I observe, and of what I feel. All of this leads me not to believe in this and leads me to other kinds of conclusion than this one.

[pogo stick]

When I visited the synagogue when I was 2.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

I've had varying levels of religiosity over the years, but I've never accepted atheism as a viable choice at any time.  If all I am is a bunch of biochemicals seeking to replicate itself, what's the point?

[Earth]

I've had varying levels of religiosity over the years, but I've never accepted atheism as a viable choice at any time.  If all I am is a bunch of biochemicals seeking to replicate itself, what's the point?

There doesn't need to be a point is a valid answer. In the same vein, what's the point of creating souls to live out a short existence?

[Alcon]

I've had varying levels of religiosity over the years, but I've never accepted atheism as a viable choice at any time.  If all I am is a bunch of biochemicals seeking to replicate itself, what's the point?

In addition to what Earth said, I don't really think existential desire has much effect on the existence or non-existence of God.  Things do not enter existence because we've determined that we cannot have an objective use without them; that doesn't make any sense.  How is that a test for "viability"?

Besides, the idea that the purpose of life can't be happiness, freedom and love is...selectively nihilistic to me.

[JSojourner]

My spiritual journey is one that began at birth and is ongoing.  I was born to professing Christian parents, raised in a Baptist church until age 12 and, when we moved, in a Christian & Missionary Alliance church until age 18.  I have been an Episcopalian since about 1998...which is, in itself, a story and a half.  ;-)

I didn't really come to understand my need of Jesus Christ in a personal sense until I was 14, and I was confronted with the idea that I was sinful, separated from God and lonely in a way that could never find healing in a human being.

One night, while attending a youth function at the church, I admitted to God that I needed Him to forgive me and restore me to Himself.  This is the moment many Christians would refer to as "getting saved", "being born again" or "asking Jesus into my heart".  Of course, the journey continued thereafter and still does.

There were other moments of growth and intimacy with God, some of which I have enumerated on this forum before...and others that are too personal to share.  Suffice it to say, entering a personal relationship with God through Jesus Christ was a good first step.  But it was only the first.

Perhaps what you are asking is more along these lines -- "Why are you still a Christian?" 

There are several answers to that.  The primary one is Jesus Christ.  I have experienced His relentless mercy, been aware of his unconditional love and constant presence and known His goodness and perfection.  I have investigated other religions and have come away from each with a deep respect for those who observe them.  I believe we can learn much from our friends in Judaism, Islam, Buddhism and other faiths.  But why do I remain a Christian?

Jesus.  No other "god" or "goddess", prophet or teacher, made the outlandish and impossible claims He made.  Ask yourself if the story is believable...

God, in an effort to re-establish a love-relationship with His creation, chooses to be born of a virgin girl in the lowliest, most oppressed country on earth.  He lives a perfect and sinless life.  He teaches people that when someone hits them, to turn the other cheek.  To forgive. To show mercy to those who least merit it.  He behaves scandalously and rebelliously when it comes to upsetting the religious heirarchy of His day.  And then -- of all the crazy things -- He stands in the temple and claims that He is really the great I AM who led Israel out of Egypt.  He says He existed before Abraham.  He allows people to worship Him as God.  He actually claims He can forgive their sins.  The powers that be don't much care for that and so they execute Him.  And three days after His death, He shows up again...alive and well.

People have told me you have to be a fool to believe it.  I guess I am a fool.  It's too crazy not to be true.  At least, that's my take on it.  And what Jesus said has been born out in my life.  He has never left me or forsaken me, just like He promised.  I've suffered.  I've been terribly depressed.  And sick.  But He has always been there.

This is why I am a Christian.  And if you're considering Christianity, I would encourage you to take that plunge.  I do realize there are a million reasons NOT to.  Not least being the many horrific and awful things Christians have done in their tortured understanding of what it means to advance their faith.  I make no excuses for them.  Or for me.  I can only say that while a million things serve to move me away from Christianity, only one thing serves to keep me in it.  Jesus Christ.  While Christians have failed and will continue to, while they sin and do ill, He never has and never will. 

So goes my story.  Though I note with both apprehension and anticipation, it is only half written.  I may be what Opebo calls "an old" but at 43, I am planning on at least a few more decades of mischief.

I hope that helps, DC.  And as I said in another thread, if you choose another path or reject religion entirely -- while I will disagree with your choice -- I will always defend your right to it and assure you of my friendship and good wishes.

[Countess Anya of the North Parish]

thanks everyone. The reason i was asking is because my mom said that if you believe in god that you will be happier. She is not religious at all.

[12th Doctor]

thanks everyone. The reason i was asking is because my mom said that if you believe in god that you will be happier. She is not religious at all.

Happier?  No.  I wouldn't say that.  Perhaps many people feel more fulfilled, but that doesn't really apply to me, personally.  To be honest with you, I have often thought about why I believe, from a personal standpoint, and I have never really be able to come up with a good answer, other than it just makes sense to me.

I was raised in it, at least not the the level most people are.  I don't feel like I am better off because of it.  I have no idea whether I will be rewarded at the end of it, as, while I do my best I am far from perfect and I know there is always more I could do to be a better person/Christian.  And, indeed, I would define my personal belief as more of a struggle than anything else.  It's has far more often resulted in being let down than feeling rewarded.  However, as discussed in a previous thread, I don't think that's the point.

[Mechaman]

George Carlin, Nietzche, Karl Marx, Zietgeist (oh noes the government is going to track my IP address and assrape me now that I've revealed I watched it), and my own libertarianism probably are the biggest influences on my atheism.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

I've had varying levels of religiosity over the years, but I've never accepted atheism as a viable choice at any time.  If all I am is a bunch of biochemicals seeking to replicate itself, what's the point?

There doesn't need to be a point is a valid answer. In the same vein, what's the point of creating souls to live out a short existence?

Eternity is a short existence?  Just because the physical form is limited in time does not mean the soul need be.

In addition to what Earth said, I don't really think existential desire has much effect on the existence or non-existence of God.  Things do not enter existence because we've determined that we cannot have an objective use without them; that doesn't make any sense.  How is that a test for "viability"?

My belief has no effect on whether God exists, however he, she, it, or they are defined.  I just know that without God, I find few reasons for self-awareness to be an advantage.

Besides, the idea that the purpose of life can't be happiness, freedom and love is...selectively nihilistic to me.

The idea that those can be sufficient in and of themselves is excessively solipsistic to me.  It effectively makes the maximum lifespan of the universe 120 years, less for most people.  They certainly are necessary, but not sufficient.

[Tonberry]

The idea that those can be sufficient in and of themselves is excessively solipsistic to me.  It effectively makes the maximum lifespan of the universe 120 years, less for most people.  They certainly are necessary, but not sufficient.

When you consider the subjective nature of morality, where you find value is really your own choice. These things may not be sufficient to you, but to people like me, they are. As an agnostic, I have no absolute morality to put faith in, so if I choose to find any value or purpose in my existence, I can choose what those things are. Although I am not indoctrinated by religion, I cannot deny that I am indoctrinated by my culture and my special instincts. As much as I try to break free and examine my purpose and value objectively, I inevitably fail and must commit myself to my highly simplistic moral purpose to work for the betterment of mankind or of all living things.

[Earth]

I've had varying levels of religiosity over the years, but I've never accepted atheism as a viable choice at any time.  If all I am is a bunch of biochemicals seeking to replicate itself, what's the point?

There doesn't need to be a point is a valid answer. In the same vein, what's the point of creating souls to live out a short existence?

Eternity is a short existence?  Just because the physical form is limited in time does not mean the soul need be.

I don't believe in eternal existence. By 'souls' I meant beings, not in any spiritual sense.

In addition to what Earth said, I don't really think existential desire has much effect on the existence or non-existence of God.  Things do not enter existence because we've determined that we cannot have an objective use without them; that doesn't make any sense.  How is that a test for "viability"?

My belief has no effect on whether God exists, however he, she, it, or they are defined.  I just know that without God, I find few reasons for self-awareness to be an advantage.

I think much of the trouble with these issues arises from the problem that people try to fit existence into their own conceptual framework, instead of the other way around. We look for meaning in every event and situation, but there's nothing that says there actually is a meaning to be found.

I don't see a very useful point in framing issues of self awareness around the concept of "advantage", that is, unless it furthers an already existing framework, such as the belief in an afterlife, or other theological issues. The reason I don't see much worth in it is because I don't feel that man is all together a special creature separate from the rest of the animal kingdom. I don't believe man has an 'exclusive existence', in that it grants us a special level of being. It can sound depressing, sure, but to be clear, considering man as another animal is not in itself anything negative, but can be liberatory, depending on interpretation.

Let's say, for the sake of conversation, you wake up one morning, and you stop beliving in God, what happens then? Does it mean existence is now completely devalued, or could you end up valuing it more?

To me, the existence or nonexistence of God doesn't add anything to the equation, since that by itself is not dogma that explains the world, and existence. We get no closer to answering questions of purpose, self awareness, or consciousness, unless we add concepts onto the idea of a God. Belief or nonbelief is one thing; providing answers for what we experience is another thing entirely, unless one makes a conscious choice to connect the two.

Besides, the idea that the purpose of life can't be happiness, freedom and love is...selectively nihilistic to me.

The idea that those can be sufficient in and of themselves is excessively solipsistic to me.  It effectively makes the maximum lifespan of the universe 120 years, less for most people.  They certainly are necessary, but not sufficient.

I don't think it's solipsistic at all; only if one frames the entire issue of existence around oneself, and applies to no one else. Personally, I have no use for the idea that the purpose in life is to be happy because it seems overly hedonistic and simple, and doesn't come close to providing a justification of existence itself. I think it misses addressing the foundation of our thought; as to why we need to frame our existence in terms of purpose, that our entire way of thinking is unnecessarily teleological.

To be perfectly honest, I want people to find happiness and freedom in their lives, to reduce as much suffering as they can, in their own lives and others, but I can't agree with it as a "purpose". It's like explaining life away in a neutral, vague fashion, but we can't be neutral on a moving train.

[tik 🪀✨]

I was brought up in a very heavily Christian environment. School almost every Sunday, youth groups when I became a teenager, regular casual Bible studies, Bible quizzing (which involved intensely studying, memorizing, and learning New Testament scriptures a chapter at a time, then meeting with the wider church denominations to compete), missions trips all over the States, worship bands in several churches, and a private non-denominational Christian school on top of that. Oh, forgot to mention the week-long Christian summer camps and weekend long winter retreats to the same place, my dad taught Sunday school for a while and my grandfather is a pastor himself, while my uncles were and are involved in worship teams.

I was inundated from a very young age.

The problem with being so heavily saturated with intense theism in early years is that you get to see the ugly sides of churches, members, and the Bible itself. I should mention now that I do still in fact acknowledge that there is likely a God of sorts, just that the Christian God is a figment of imaginations and most of the followers of Christianity are deluding themselves. And yes, to a certain extent, wrapped up in a remnant of traditions once used more for social control and cohesiveness than a genuine search for God.

Even while I considered myself a follower of Jesus I was rife with cynicism towards organized religion to the point where I was hesitant to call myself a Christian (preferring instead a 'follower of Jesus' to repeat myself). The older I became the more the dots began to connect to form a different pattern. I also began to question to validity of the Bible whereas at one time I marvelled at how well it all seemed to connect together. It all basically came to a head on one night that was probably similar to jmfcst's just with a different outcome (and no hallucinations).

If God is the way Bible describes, I don't see how he is just, fair, or loving. And while I believe that a higher power exists, I don't know if this higher power is anything like Christianity describes. How could I know? Faith, to me, was lying to oneself for convenience sake. I couldn't cope with that and realized that logically all that I can believe in is what I can consciously perceive. However, I can't reconcile consciousness itself let alone how this strange universe I perceive came about. I don't even know if reality itself is real, but it might as well be, because it's all I know.

So on one hand, I can't believe in God because I can't consciously sense anything like any religion describes, but on the other hand, I can't reconcile consciousness and reality itself without acknowledging something beyond myself. But that something is unknowable. As stupid as it probably sounds, I still think it exists, even if just as collective idea.

Perhaps that night would seem like it would have been dreary and depressing, but it was a huge reconciliation. The hardest part was going against my upbringing, mainly the fear of hell, and saying that if the conclusions I'd now reached meant an eternity of torture, I have no choice but to take it, because it is foolish to waste this life, the only thing I know I have, based on something with no tangible evidence. So I washed my hands of it.

And that's my story - probably badly explained, and I doubt anyone cared to read it. So then, was I happier when I was a 'Christian' of sorts? Not usually. It meant that every struggle was completely out of my control and that if I failed it was on purpose. This was a relief for a while (calvinism, that is), but it's much more of a relief to believe that a lot of life is just pointless and random but I myself have the sole power to change my own circumstances. Talking to myself late at night on the balcony never actually did anything besides put a band-aid on my psyche. So instead of that I try to saturate myself in reality by letting go to see what senses are capable of perceiving through meditation, hoping to gain perspective and control over myself, instead of jabbering into a void and hoping coincidences are signs.

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

Unlike jmfcst, the idea of entering Biblical study under the assumption that the Bible is true seems circular and absurd to me.  

But that's not what my testimony states.  rather I was basically an unbeliever when I entered that bible study.  I simply entered the bible study to determine whether or not my girlfriend's church (which even I could tell was very different than mainstream Christianity) was actually following the bible as they claimed to be.

The only assumption I made was that the only way for me to know whether or not they were following the bible was for me to examine their beliefs against the bible.

My attitude was, "It is time!".  That the moment had come in my life to seek truth.  So, I was actually looking for God, but I had no expectations and no idea what I was in for.

I think NOT being a member of a denomination at the time of my conversion, actually help me be bold enough to have confidence that one could pick up a bible and read it cold.  Now, don't get me wrong, I had attempted in the past to read bits of the bible, but it only seemed like I was sinking in a vast ocean that I couldn’t make heads or tails out of.  I previously was just reading, not knowing which book to read first.

But that night in my apartment was different, God was opening my eyes but I didn’t know it yet.  (I only had a HUGE King James bible, one of those hardback types that is like 10” x 15” and four inches thick, they were given these away about four years earlier at a Baptist church I attended for one or two services when I was dating a Baptist girl).  That night I started with the book of Galatians and it just started to click, I could see the writer attempting to make one single simple point by addressing the topic from many different angles and using many different examples, but the point of each example was the same, and the point of the book of Galatians repudiated my girlfriend’s church which had mixed the Law of Moses into their doctrine.

I don’t know how much time reading it took me to come to that conclusion, probably only an hour. I don’t think I even made it into the 4th chapter of Galatians.  (Maybe I did, I don’t remember ).   But once it was clear what Galatians was repeatedly saying, I realized the deception wasn’t being waged for no purpose, that there was something of value at stake to make the deception worthwhile.  And God enabled me to sense the battle going on the spiritual realm.  

It was THAT very awareness of warfare going on in the spiritual realm that caused me at that very moment to believe in Jesus Christ.  And I got up from the table where I was studying the bible and paced the carpet in my apartment living room with tears streaming down my face because I was overjoyed that I had come to believe.  And my mind raced through my history of contact with my girlfriend’s church, how years before I had subscribed to their free magazines being offered on their TV program “The World Tomorrow” and how I would later meet my best friend in college whose dad was a pastor in that very church.  And how through that friend in Sept ’91 that I met my girlfriend who attended that church and how immediately, from the first instant I laid eyes on her, without her saying a word and without her even looking at me, I felt a very strong spiritual attachment to her, like a very intense laser, that I had never felt before and couldn’t explain.  She live in Buffalo NY and had newly graduated from college, but since the recession was so bad in Buffalo and few jobs were available, she was taking a long vacation on a train with a girlfriend and was just visiting mutual friends in her church across the country.  They had stopped in Big Sandy TX where another girlfriend from Houston picked them up and brought them down to Houston for a visit.

(cont. in next post)

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

I kept tabs on her and she ended up finding a job in Houston and moving here a couple of months later in late ‘91.  I was dating Miss Teen Houston at the time, along with whoever else I wanted, but I made sure that our paths crossed and I would arrange group outings and made sure she was invited, and I was very interested in her, though I didn’t know why (she was very attractive, but pretty girls were a dime a dozen).  And I wrote her many letters over the next year that I never mailed, detailing my unexplained attraction to her and how I was totally convinced our paths were destined to be intertwined.  We didn’t start dating until Aug ’92 and immediately hit it off, but there was no kissing, no hugging, not even hand-holding.  I attempted NOTHING, which was very out of character for me because I was a user of women.

About three weeks into Oct 92, I gave her a large envelope as I dropped her off at her apartment after one of our dates.  Inside the envelope was all the letters that I had written her over the last year (which was strange because I could think of ZERO letters I had ever written another girl).  After I left, she opened it, not knowing what was in it.  She stayed up late into the night reading the letters, and when it became clear to her we were deeply falling in love, she confronted the fact that the math didn’t add up – she wasn’t suppose to be dating outside of her church.  What started off to her as an innocent dabbling outside of her church, was quickly spinning out of control.

So, she gave me a letter from her, outlining her dilemma.  I was very understanding, after all, I certainly didn’t want to continue down the road to marriage with a possible huge internal conflict as big as religion.  But my family was just pseudo-Christians and didn’t attend church.  And I had been reading material (though, just like the bible, none of it made sense to me) from her church for about 10 years and my best friends went to her church.  So, it would have been very easy for me to transition into her church, and I obviously had motive to do so.

So, I told her I would check it out, but I wanted to check it out on my own so that I could make a sincere decision – there was a relationship likely headed for marriage at stake – so this wasn’t a decision to make half-heartedly – if the decision wasn’t made out of sincerity, then it result in divorce down the road.  And since I was being extremely conservative with this relationship, because I valued her so highly, I wanted to remain completely honest with her.

And in my heart, I knew “it was time” to settle things in my own mind….so while pacing in my living room having just accepted belief in Christ, my whole 10 year history of contact with her church and my whole previously unexplained laser-like attraction to her raced through my mind, and I asked a question to myself, “Is that why all these things happened and why she was brought into my life, so that I would believe?”  And at that instant, I could fell every bone in my body, all 200 and something of them, and I stared down in amazement at my hands and feet, and in the center of my bones I could fell a fire ignited (but not painful), and the within a second or two, the fire radiated outward from the center of my bone, and traveled like a wave from the center of my bones to the surface of my bones and radiated outward consuming my whole flesh until it simultaneously reached the surface of my skin, causing my entire body to break out in goose bumps from head to toe.  And I stood there totally overwhelmed, looking down at my hands and feet, weeping and amazed.  And in that instance, God spoke to me in my heart and answered my question, “Yes, that is the reason why, now go and tell them the truth.”  

And I could sense that I was being lifted up and honored in front of the whole universe, both physical and spiritual.  I knew that I had been forgiven of my sins.  That I had died in that moment.  And that I no longer belonged to this world.  But I had never been taught of such an experience and didn’t know whether I was the only one in the world with such an experience or if there were others like me.  (I think the exact date was either the Tuesday 27th or Wednesday 28th of October 1992) And God revealed to me that Jesus was alive, and that he was alive in me, and I said in amazement, “He’s alive!”  And as I wept, I marveled and chucked at the numbness of the world’s point of view.

(cont. in next post)

[Swing low, sweet chariot. Comin' for to carry me home.]

But I did NOT want to go tell all my friends in that church (many of their fathers were either deacons or pastors of the church – God just happened to arrange it so that I was well known by many of the leadership) and my girlfriend that I had received a revelation contrary to what they were being taught and that their church was basically a cult.  I had been a guest in my friends house dozens upon dozens of time over the preceding 5 years and I was well known throughout their extended families.  Obviously, I knew they wouldn’t believe me and they’d think I went insane and it would basically make me their enemy.

So, I simply went about my business, enjoying my new life, pumped full of adrenaline, needing only two hours of sleep at night, and literally sprinting up the stairs to my apartment in order to dive into the bible as soon as I home from work.  I literally lived on 2 hours sleep per night for the next two weeks as I read all the New Testament and a good church of the Old Testament.  It’s the only thing I wanted to do.

The very next day after receiving the Holy Spirit, I was at work talking to a Christian woman who knew that I had started looking into my girlfriends church.  She was very worried that I would be sucked into it and asked how what was going on and what had happened (she could discern the change in me).  I tempted to tell her as we walked down the hall, but I got choked up and couldn’t finish and we were interrupted.  She would ask the next day, “What were you trying to tell me in the hallway yesterday?”  I told her everything that had happened, even about the fire in my bones, and how I didn’t know exactly what it meant except that I had received a spirit.  She said, “[jmfcst], that was the Holy Spirit!”  And I said, “I know”  And she wrote down some verses for me to look up that would explain to me what it all meant, and would even explain the fire in my bones. 

And as I read more and more in the next few days, I realized that everything that had happened to me was spelled out in the bible.  The ability to discern the warfare of the spiritual realm, the ability to understand scripture, the seemingly unintentional path to belief, the baptism of fire, the fire in the bones, the consumption of the flesh with fire, the receiving of the Spirit, the voice of God, the receiving of a commission to witness, having the conscience being wiped of the guilt of sin, dying to the world, being honored and exalted above the universe, being able to discern truths without having heard or read them, etc, etc, etc…it was all there.  It was nothing new.  It was just Jesus, who never changes, and who for 2000 years, had been pouring out similar gifts.

Within two days of my “anointing” from God, I think it was Friday after I got home from work and checked my mail, my girlfriend, who I was avoiding and I hadn’t attempted contact with, wrote me a letter saying she agreed we should cool it for a while until I checked things out and made my decision about her church.  Little did she know what decision I had came to.  But I was relieved when I got the letter and used it as just another excuse to avoid having to tell her the truth.  Now I had the whole weekend to enjoy my new life, and I place my friends in that church and my girlfriend way on the back-burner of my mind.

But that following Monday, I had a message on my answering machine when I arrived home from work.  It was my girlfriend, and she wasn’t happy where things left off between us.  And later that night, she called.  What I had attempted to avoid and run away from all week was now ringing my phone.  And, of course, I was unable to keep silent and everything came forth, like a dam being ruptured.   

It took 18 months to convert my girlfriend, when she could no longer ignore what she saw.  She could pick up the bible, take any book of the bible, read it herself, understand it, and without me having said a single word, her interpretation was in agreement with mine.  But, when she pick up the literature of her church, she would backtrack and feel forced to take their position out of fear, even though it wasn’t the conclusion she arrived at through her own study. Eventually, she could no longer deny the truth.

But those 18 months were intense.  I would attend her church with her (actually, most of the time I attended one of their congregations on the other side of town).  Their congregations were CLOSED to the public.  I had to write to Pasadena CA for permission to attend, and then I was mailed a phone number to call of one of their local pastors.  He checked me out over the phone before telling me where and when to go.  They took attendance at the door, writing down the names of all visitors and asking the purpose of their visit.  When wind of my opinion reached the leadership of the church, I was pulled before them and I explained I was open ears and open to conversion as long what they said was in agreement with the bible, which was all true.  And I told them honestly that I was having difficulty finding agreement with scripture, and that lead led to a whole other level of leadership and debate.  But since my story was so well known, and since I was engaged in at home bible studies with many of my friend in that church, and since I wasn’t causing disruption to their services, they didn’t bar me from attendance, and I soon gained more knowledge about their doctrine that 99% of its members (most churchgoers, even those in cults, don’t deeply study their church doctrine).  I read hundreds of older documents of the denomination that were published over the past 50 years.  I knew there past and present doctrine like the back of my hand, and I could sense a shift in doctrine (which the church simply tried to play off as a rewording but not a real change…Herbert Armstrong was already dead, and his hand-picked successor slowly changing beliefs set in stone, in an attempt to unwind the cultish views without losing the whole congregation).  And I would lay out to my fiends their own churches doctrine, to which they would agree.  Then I would explain to them the hidden intent of the change in wording and what the final intention was, to which they replied, “No way, they will never teach that!”

And, take my word for it, when dealing with a worldwide congregation of only around 100k (which is pretty small), it is easy to make waves when you cause ripples in the clear view of the leadership of a closely controlled church.  Both the leadership of the North and South congregations in Houston were involved.  And my girlfriend’s old pastor in Buffalo NY caught wind of it through members that knew her family.

My girlfriend was the first to leave her church out of all of those friends, she would become my wife within 3 months of leaving.  A few more friends would follow soon afterward.  But, a couple of years later, the church started to flatly admit to a change in their doctrine to become more mainstream, and admitted that they were previously wrong, just as I predicted they would to my friends.  This didn’t sit well with some and the denomination splintered into many pieces.  Many of my friends in that church headed off in different directions.  Those who left were angry that they had been deceived all those years by Herbert Armstrong.  And those who escaped and were saved marvel at those bible studies where I foolishly attempted to force feed scripture to them when they couldn’t digest it at the time.  I thought that since I received the Spirit in an hour of reading scripture, that everyone could do the same.  It took me a while to understand that every conversion experience is unique.

As you can see, I am still learning that lesson!