Is Cheney an extremist?

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

one of only 10 to vote against Head Start
one of only 4 to vote against banning metal detector proof weapons
voted against the Department of Education
voted against Meals on Wheels
voted against calling for the release of Nelson Mandela
voted against the MLK holiday

Kerry's not the biggest extremist on either ticket people.

[minionofmidas]

That's alright as long as he adds gravitas.

[AuH2O]

I'll take someone who votes against a holiday over someone who votes against defending the country from the Soviet Union any day of the week.

While Cheney was against sanctioning SA (since that would essentially be a form of aid to Marxist groups in the region and in SA itself), Kerry was lying on behalf of the Soviets as they openly broke international law. While Kerry was voting against missile defenses, he was lying to the American people about the massive buildup of illegal missile defenses in the Soviet Union.

While Kerry was banning anti-satellite weapons, because the Soviets "didn't have them," the Russians were strapping their latest A-SATs onto Mig-31s. While Kerry voted against measures to make our nuclear force more survivable (which would also allow it to be smaller), he lied to the American people about our vulnerability to a Soviet preemptive strike. While Kerry was voting against Early Warning radars, he also lied on behalf of the Soviets as they constructed illegal radars.

It's a good thing most US Senators realized we did need to defend ourselves, because a strong deterrent prevents war. John Kerry was not among them.

[Huckleberry Finn]

one of only 10 to vote against Head Start
one of only 4 to vote against banning metal detector proof weapons
voted against the Department of Education
voted against Meals on Wheels
voted against calling for the release of Nelson Mandela
voted against the MLK holiday

Kerry's not the biggest extremist on either ticket people.

You're back. Good!

[Tory]

I'll take someone who votes against a holiday over someone who votes against defending the country from the Soviet Union any day of the week.

Amen

BRTD, you are more of an extremist than Cheney could ever hope to be.

[The Duke]

one of only 10 to vote against Head Start
one of only 4 to vote against banning metal detector proof weapons
voted against the Department of Education
voted against Meals on Wheels
voted against calling for the release of Nelson Mandela
voted against the MLK holiday

Kerry's not the biggest extremist on either ticket people.

This is classic liberal-think.

He votes against a resolution that demands the release of mandela by someone else.  Not a resolution that would have released Mandela, but one that demands something the congress had no actual power to affect and had only one tangible outcome--to irrtate a staunchly anti-Soviet ally.

If the resolution did something other than bitch about things, I'd see a reason to support it.

And voting against (another) federal holiday?  So that lazy bureacrats can sit around their house wathcing "Passions" all day?  How many federal employees do you suppose actually thought about MLK Jr on their holiday?  I you guessed 1, you guessed to many!

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

I'll take someone who votes against a holiday over someone who votes against defending the country from the Soviet Union any day of the week.

Amen

BRTD, you are more of an extremist than Cheney could ever hope to be.

have I ever claimed to not be an extremist?

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

one of only 10 to vote against Head Start
one of only 4 to vote against banning metal detector proof weapons
voted against the Department of Education
voted against Meals on Wheels
voted against calling for the release of Nelson Mandela
voted against the MLK holiday

Kerry's not the biggest extremist on either ticket people.

This is classic liberal-think.

He votes against a resolution that demands the release of mandela by someone else.  Not a resolution that would have released Mandela, but one that demands something the congress had no actual power to affect and had only one tangible outcome--to irrtate a staunchly anti-Soviet ally.

If the resolution did something other than bitch about things, I'd see a reason to support it.

And voting against (another) federal holiday?  So that lazy bureacrats can sit around their house wathcing "Passions" all day?  How many federal employees do you suppose actually thought about MLK Jr on their holiday?  I you guessed 1, you guessed to many!

yet you don't cover the votes where he was on the way losing side. Being one of 4 or 10 to vote against something is pretty extreme. If I were in Congress, I would also frequently be on the losing sides of such votes, but never have I said I am not an extremist.

[Tory]

I'll take someone who votes against a holiday over someone who votes against defending the country from the Soviet Union any day of the week.

Amen

BRTD, you are more of an extremist than Cheney could ever hope to be.

have I ever claimed to not be an extremist?

If you are then don't apply the term to Cheney in a negative way, it's dishonest and slimey.

[AuH2O]

BRTD's argument is odd, but I'll try to break it down:

1) Extremists good

This is inherent in his remarks; by saying he is an extremist, apparently by his own will, he is endorsing extremism. To cite Kant, in your actions you must be ready to will your deed to be universal law; BRTD is either saying you SHOULD be extremist or that you can be without repercussion.

2) Cheney's extremism bad

This is a direct contradiction with his other point, which says that extremism is OK (after all, he admits to being "extreme"). Because the poll asks whether Cheney is extreme; you could rephrase it thusly:

Is Cheney good?

Based on his personal statements.

What BRTD meant to say was one of two things:

      a) Cheney's type of extremism is bad (no support
          for this argument)

      b) extremism is only good when applied to BRTD

Obviously, (b) is untenable. (a) would be OK, but BRTD would have to show WHY Cheney's version of extremism is worse than his.

3) Consequently, if Cheney proves to be extreme, BRTD would actually view him as a more valiant opponent-- they disagree ideologically, but at least Cheney is extreme like BRTD.

Finally, this means BRTD is essentially praising Cheney, though of course he disagrees with him.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

actually no. My view is not that extremism is good or bad, but rather that leftism is good, especially extreme leftism, and rightism is bad, extreme rightism being the worse of it all.

However the issue here is not whether or not I like Cheney, since it's obvious I don't. The issue is that many supporting Cheney are openly against extremism or are labeling Kerry an extremist. This is pure hypocrisy.

[AuH2O]

I'm not sure you understand how hypocritical your argument is.

If extreme leftism is OK, then extreme rightism must be equally OK if someone is a rightist of any kind. Indeed, yours is the most pure form of hypocrisy- what is right for you is wrong for someone else.

Your poll question was a typical exercise in neomarxist word games.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

you are just as much of a hypocrite in that case, as you have admitted to being far right on many occasions. Is Le Pen a moderate?

[AuH2O]

Sir, you are the one that created the poll of hypocrisy.

If I have called Kerry far-left- which I don't think I have- then that still would not be the REASON to vote against him, it would just be a description.

You are claiming Cheney's "extremism" is a reason to oppose him.

Thus, you are a hypocrite.

I, meanwhile, have not been hypocritical in the least. Please provide examples rather than lying about my comments.

[The Duke]

AuH20,

I think you've created a false standard.  BRTD has never said that there is inherent virtue in the extremes, but rather inherent virtue in leftism.  Therefore, extreme leftism is the greatest, most virtuous ideology, while its opposite, extreme rightism, is the worst ideology.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

your hypocrisy is in you claiming it is wrong to see one type of extremism as good and another bad as bad, yet you are clearly opposed to left wing extremism, and supporitve of right wing extremism such as Le Pen.

However, my reason for opposing Cheney is not extremism, but rather that he is on the other wing of the political spectrum. If Arlen Specter was running against Bernie Sanders, I'd vote Sanders. However, many (not you) claim to oppose extremism, yet are supporting Cheney.

[AuH2O]

John Ford, I understand that but it's not the issue:

Poll Question: "Is Cheney an extremist?"

Clearly, the connotation of this question is that Cheney is bad BECAUSE HE IS EXTREME- clearly the question is rhetorical.

Problem is, "extreme" is a subjective term.

If, in fact, BRTD wants to do what you say, JF, he would have asked:

"Is Cheney right-wing?"

Because the right-wing part would be bad. How extreme he is would only adjust slightly how bad he is. The operative issue is whether he is rightist, not whether he is extreme.

However, BRTD dishonestly phrased the poll to

a) say Cheney is extreme
b) say you should oppose him because of it

So, yeah, you could argue it was just a biased and stupid poll question rather than blatant hypocrisy. BRTD is essentially saying:

"Dick Cheney is bad because he is not a leftist."

Well, that's his opinion, but it's a retarded point to make-- we ALREADY KNOW CHENEY IS NOT A LEFTIST.

So what is BRTD trying to prove here? Obviously, he is just slandering Cheney with the same word he applies to himself. That is hypocrisy.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

however, it's also already known that I oppose Cheney. The question is of whether people who DO consider extremism to be inherently bad should support Cheney.

If a person who considers left wing extremism good, and anything right wing bad opposes an extreme rightist, that is not hypocritical.

If a person who considers all extremism bad is supporting an extreme rightist, that IS hypocritical.

[The Duke]

He started the poll to drive a wedge between moderates and conservatives over things like head start, not to prove that extremism is bad.

[Gabu]

If a person who considers all extremism bad is supporting an extreme rightist, that IS hypocritical.

"Extremism" is extremely subjective (pardon the pun).  Someone who you consider to be an extreme rightist probably is not considered to be the same way from a supporter, so telling the supporter that he's bad for supporting an extremist is not going to work.

[AuH2O]

however, it's also already known that I oppose Cheney. The question is of whether people who DO consider extremism to be inherently bad should support Cheney.

If a person who considers left wing extremism good, and anything right wing bad opposes an extreme rightist, that is not hypocritical.

If a person who considers all extremism bad is supporting an extreme rightist, that IS hypocritical.

True, we know you dislike Cheney.

However, you are advocating votes for the Democratic Party.

Compared to a moderate Republican, Kerry is  an "extreme" leftist.

So I suppose the most basic problem is that you have no argument; whether or not Cheney is "extreme" is immaterial because there is no alternative to extremity if you are on one side or the other.

Further, the VP doesn't make decisions. So the question of relevance also arises. But that's secondary to the central contradiction.

If I asked "Is Kerry extreme?" BRTD would probably reject the notion, because in comparison to BRTD Kerry is NOT extreme.

To a normal voter, however, Kerry might be more extreme. Insofar as that could be the case, BRTD is arguing against Kerry/Edwards...