Which issue will hurt J.Kerry the most?

[zachman]

Independents are not inclined in any way to vote for Bush. As long as Kerry picks a luring VP he will win independents.

Independents also realize what the Republican smear machine is doing.

[Wakie]

I think a lot of the Republican "big issues" are actually going to backfire.


Gay Marriage -- For the most part Kerry is avoiding this issue while Bush is talking about a Constituitional Amendment.  Traditionally the voters punish whomever makes a strong stand on such a divisive issue, regardless of which way the individual taking the stand leans.  So although I think most Americans do not like the issue of gay marriage, they would rather it go through the courts before they have to deal with it.  I think voters will punish Bush for pressing his side.

Flipflopping -- The GOP attacks Kerry on what is perceived to be his playing both sides of issues.  But I think many Americans are uneasy with Bush's "over-simplification" of the world.  And if the Kerry camp can play up Bush's flipflops on "Nation Building" and "Large Govt Budgets" (2 things he attacked Gore on but seems big on himself)  then this could bite Bush in the butt.

Jane Fonda -- The phoney picture just goes to show how low certain Bush backers will go.  I think dirty tricks are a major turnoff to the American people.


Kerry, like all candidates, certainly has some weaknesses ... but on these 3 issues I think the GOP is barking up the wrong tree.

[Kghadial]

Jane Fonda really shouldn't hurt Kerry, its not his fault that he sat in the same crowd with her a couple of years before she went to Vietnam.

Running around with that picture and saying "ooohh Kerry hung out with Hanoi Jane"  is about the same as showing a picture of Bush standing next to his daughter and saying "Bush hangs out with underage drinkers"

[12th Doctor]

Gay Marriage -- For the most part Kerry is avoiding this issue while Bush is talking about a Constituitional Amendment.  Traditionally the voters punish whomever makes a strong stand on such a divisive issue, regardless of which way the individual taking the stand leans.  So although I think most Americans do not like the issue of gay marriage, they would rather it go through the courts before they have to deal with it.  I think voters will punish Bush for pressing his side.

Bush has, thus far, not made much of a deal about it in the and it will only become a big deal if Kerry makes it one.  If this happens, a majority of the voters will side with Bush.

Flipflopping -- The GOP attacks Kerry on what is perceived to be his playing both sides of issues.  But I think many Americans are uneasy with Bush's "over-simplification" of the world.  And if the Kerry camp can play up Bush's flipflops on "Nation Building" and "Large Govt Budgets" (2 things he attacked Gore on but seems big on himself)  then this could bite Bush in the butt.

Bush didn't condeme nation building.  He said that he was for it when it was done right.  "Large Govt Budgets" were created by all of the things that Bush promised in the 2000 campaign.  Though the right may be unhappy with it the average voter won't punish Bush for coming through on his promises.

Also, you blame Bush for 'over-simplification' and say that it is the same as Kerry's flipflopps.  I ask you, are all the issues so complicated that you need to change your possition on them every time a vote comes-up?  I have a question:  Is Kerry for or against NAFTA?  Was he for or against the first Gulf War?  Is he for or against our involvment in Iraq now?  Is he for or against the troops there?  Is he for or against 'No Child Left Behind'?  Is he for or against abortion?  I don't know, I can never tell.  Throughout his career, he as consistently taken opposing standes on the same issues and has a long history of contradictory public statments and voting on all sides of key issues.  If the chioce is between that and 'over-simplification' as you call it, I will take over simplification any day of the week.  When I am voting for someone, I like to know that he will acctually stand for a certain set of priciples.

Jane Fonda -- The phoney picture just goes to show how low certain Bush backers will go.  I think dirty tricks are a major turnoff to the American people.

What's important here is that the image of John Kerry astride a North Vietnamese AA gun having sex with Jane Fonda probably wouldn't be out of the question in the minds of most people in this country, and that is the problem that Kerry has here, most of the American people are MORE than aware of his conduct after the war and it offends many American citizens and certainly those who served PROUDLY in Vietnam of which my step-grandfather is one.  Kerry has a history of helping out the people who spat on my step-grandfather and called him a 'baby-killer' when he came home from service.  Many Americans (especially in the heart-land) are terribly offended by this and will make sure that he never sits in the oval office.

Someday a month or two from now, many of you Dems will wake-up, see John Kerry on TV and wonder 'what the Hell were we thinking'.

[??????????]

Bush is right on his stance on Gay Marriage. I am still undecided about the amendment thing, but when he says its wrong he's right. Right now the states that are giving licenses are doing it ILLEGALLY. Bush is right when he says Judges are out of control. Many judges are legislating from the bench and they arent doing anything about these quacky mayors who are clearly violating the law of the land. That one mayor in upstate New York said after he gets out of jail he is going to preform even more ceremonies. Gay Marriage, right or wrong is against the law currently and as such the law should be respected.

[opebo]

Gay Marriage -- For the most part Kerry is avoiding this issue while Bush is talking about a Constituitional Amendment.  Traditionally the voters punish whomever makes a strong stand on such a divisive issue, regardless of which way the individual taking the stand leans.  So although I think most Americans do not like the issue of gay marriage, they would rather it go through the courts before they have to deal with it.  I think voters will punish Bush for pressing his side.

Gay Marriage is not 'divisive' - a huge majority of voters are against it.  And within the GOP-leaning and swing states, its such an overwhelming majority that it constitutes a cultural or societal 'norm'.  This issue only helps Bush.

Btw, seeing smiling gays getting married on TV turns the stomach of the average voter who is not from the West Coast or Northeast.  I've nothing against it but will be glad when it helps Bush win another term.

[zachman]

The judges are not out of control (the Massachusetts judges should have not required it to be called marriage though). Only the Massachusetts court has gone beyond the norm. It seems likely California will make a similar ruling shortly. The judges in Mass. were using the constitution as their basis.

[nclib]

While it is true that in the North people are generally colder/ruder than in the South .... they are rude to everyone.  In the South there is a "you no good Yankee" attitude.  Heck, I got pulled over in TX doing 52 in a 45 and was told "we don't need you Yankees coming down here flying all over the place".

Not only that, but there is no Northern voting bias.  You don't hear people saying "oh ... no one in the North will vote for Clinton/Gore/Bush because they are from the South".  But you have heard the opposite said of Dean, Kerry, and others.

I'm sorry, but in my experience the North is indifferent to the South whereas the South seems to resent the North.

Absolutely agree regarding voting patterns. Also southerners are more conscious of region in general. When Liddy Dole ran for Senate here, I once heard an ad where she said something like "I'm a Southern woman who grew up in Salisbury [N.C.]." Can anyone even imagine a candidate for Senate from Connecticut saying "I'm a Northern woman who grew up in Bridgeport."??

[nclib]

Gustaf,

As someone who has lived in both places, I can tell you that the North is perhaps more anti-South than vice versa...they just do it in a more subtle, condescending fashion.

I agree completely.  Northeasterns love to pat themselves on the back for their presumed cultural and intellectual superiority over southerners, and southerners pick up on this condescension.  Howard Dean positively reeked of it, and John Kerry will probably have a hard time suppressing it.

As someone who lives in the South, but whose parents are from NYC, I don't condone either direction of regional prejudice. However, I do believe that anti-South Northerners are more understandable than visa versa. Northerners may be condescending to the South because of its [the South's] lower education, higher crime rate, lesser cultural diversity, lesser respect for minorities of race, gender, and lifestyle, etc. Southerners detesting the North tends to be more of an emotional bias, which is usually related to historical events.

[12th Doctor]

Gustaf,

As someone who has lived in both places, I can tell you that the North is perhaps more anti-South than vice versa...they just do it in a more subtle, condescending fashion.

I agree completely.  Northeasterns love to pat themselves on the back for their presumed cultural and intellectual superiority over southerners, and southerners pick up on this condescension.  Howard Dean positively reeked of it, and John Kerry will probably have a hard time suppressing it.

As someone who lives in the South, but whose parents are from NYC, I don't condone either direction of regional prejudice. However, I do believe that anti-South Northerners are more understandable than visa versa. Northerners may be condescending to the South because of its [the South's] lower education, higher crime rate, lesser cultural diversity, lesser respect for minorities of race, gender, and lifestyle, etc. Southerners detesting the North tends to be more of an emotional bias, which is usually related to historical events.

'Unrelated to historical events'?  What universe are you living in?  I already debated this before on another thread, so I won't get too deep into it.  What reason do northerners have to look down on southerners other than they are conservative.  So you justify dipicting 1/3 of our nations population as a bunch of ignorant barbarians just because they are conservative and you are liberal?  I know you are from NC.  Who cares.  You clearly have sided with the arrogant New Englanders, so I will treat you as one of them.  As a southerner, you should know that the modern south is far different from the south of 40 years ago on the lines of culture (art, theater), economics and civil rights, yet you say that ivory-tower north-easterners still have the right to look down on the south.  And most of the problems that existed in the south after the Civil War were caused by Reconstruction and northern expliotation that lasted straight-up until the start of WWII.  Southerners have every right to be suspisious of Northeasterners and Northeasterners only look-down on southerners because without having someone to feel better than, most of them would lose their reason for existing.

[??????????]

Soulty you hit the nail right on the head! I love the N'Easterners who preach that they are better then the South because they weren't racist. What a crock, the Northeast had the same racial problems and issues the south had. It wasn't localized.

[12th Doctor]

When Liddy Dole ran for Senate here, I once heard an ad where she said somethinglike "I'm a Southern woman who grew up in Salisbury [N.C.]." Can anyone even imagine a candidate for Senate from Connecticut saying "I'm a Northern woman who grew up in Bridgeport."??

No, but that's because all they care about is wether you went to Harvard or Priceton, or Yale or one of those other white-shoe ivory tower schools and whether or not you are one of them which is to say not one of us back-woods hick, trailer park trash, inbreeds from the south or someother rural area, like the PA 'T'.  After all, wasn't in James Caravelle(sp) who said that PA 'consisted of Philadelphia in the east, Pittsburgh in the west and Alabama in the middle.

[Gustaf]

This is getting really emotional...

[opebo]

This is getting really emotional...

You have no idea how emotional class/cultural/regional issues are in the US.  Basically rural areas in most of the country, and the South as a whole, resent, even hate, the liberal urban elites (and coincidentally their poor racial dependents).  The urban leftist elites despise the above mentioned ruralites.  I can tell you that rural people who are nowhere near the South actually identify or at least strongly sympathize with the South.

[Gustaf]

This is getting really emotional...

You have no idea how emotional class/cultural/regional issues are in the US.  Basically rural areas in most of the country, and the South as a whole, resent, even hate, the liberal urban elites (and coincidentally their poor racial dependents).  The urban leftist elites despise the above mentioned ruralites.  I can tell you that rural people who are nowhere near the South actually identify or at least strongly sympathize with the South.

Well, that exists everywhere. Rural-Urban conflicts are common everywhere, they've existed in Sweden since mediaeval times.

[Filuwaúrdjan]

How about Norway?
Politics there *is* rural v urban...

[Gustaf]

How about Norway?
Politics there *is* rural v urban...

Yeah, as I said, it exists in a lot of places. Just look at Sweden's last referendum...urban right-wingers v rural conservatives and socialists.

[opebo]

How about Norway?
Politics there *is* rural v urban...

Yeah, as I said, it exists in a lot of places. Just look at Sweden's last referendum...urban right-wingers v rural conservatives and socialists.

Now that is twisted.

[12th Doctor]

You have no idea how emotional class/cultural/regional issues are in the US.  Basically rural areas in most of the country, and the South as a whole, resent, even hate, the liberal urban elites (and coincidentally their poor racial dependents).  

I don't feel any resentment toward urban racial minorities in the least.  I acctually feel bad for them.  They are being horribly duped by the left-wing elites.

[??????????]

Soulty you are so on the money.

Dependence = Slavery

[12th Doctor]

Soulty you are so on the money.

Dependence = Slavery

Amen.  And thanks for the compliment.

[??????????]

I'm glad to see their are Yankees with common sense.







(just ribbing yall)

[12th Doctor]

I'm glad to see their are Yankees with common sense.







(just ribbing yall)

I'm really not much of a yankee.  Though born and bred in PA the political region selector said that my #1 political region was 'Peripheral South'.

[??????????]

Where did you find that selector at?

[Gustaf]

How about Norway?
Politics there *is* rural v urban...

Yeah, as I said, it exists in a lot of places. Just look at Sweden's last referendum...urban right-wingers v rural conservatives and socialists.

Now that is twisted.

It was a twisted issue. Nazis, libertarians, rural conservatives, communists, socialists and greens all on the same side...