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Author Topic: Education and Care for Children in Poverty Act  (Read 7984 times)
Akno21
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« on: October 08, 2004, 03:37:06 pm »
« edited: October 09, 2004, 04:16:25 pm by Senator Akno21 »

15 million Atlasian children are in poverty. Their parents do not have the money to send them to a good preschool or the time to really teach them. That is why I propose this act.

Education and Care for Children in Poverty Act
Section A[/i]
From the second a child is born into a family that is below the poverty line, that child's parents will have the option of sending the child to a day-care center, operated from 6 AM until 7 PM, until the child is ready to attend the normal public school. The day-care center will be cost free, and it will attempt to instill positive traits in children at a young age, so that they will be better adults. The federal government will allocate funds for this, but will leave all decisions up to local governments.
Section B[/i]
For children who live with families below the poverty line, totally free before and after-school care will be provided until the child graduates middle school. The rest is the same as Section A.

Section C[/i]
The estimated cost of this is 18.9 billion dollars this year, and 17.65 billion dollars every other year. That cost is split between hiring people to run the programs, providing equipment for the programs, and, if needed, constructing new facilities.

If anyone has a better name for this, feel free to suggest it.
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Jake
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« Reply #1 on: October 08, 2004, 05:06:55 pm »

This act is about helping kids to learn, correct?

What kid wants to spend 13 hours at a school/daycare center?  How do you expect the staff to teach kids better than their parents?  This will just turn into government funded 13 hour school where, if this is anything like my elementary/middle school, the teacher teaches some and then watches us play.  There will be no special teaching in the large majority of these schools.  Wouldn't an expansion of the YMCA or Boys and girls clubs of America be better, instead of building more day care centers and increasing spend?
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The Duke
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« Reply #2 on: October 08, 2004, 05:39:10 pm »

How was this $750 million figure come to?
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StevenNick
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« Reply #3 on: October 08, 2004, 05:40:31 pm »

So now you want the government to become the full-fledged nanny of the populace.  Really, you want the government to become the parent of all the children in poverty.  And you're going to fund this program by stealing money from all those who do not live in poverty and you're going to use a subjective definition of poverty in deciding who this program benefits.  If you're poor you get to suck off the government tit.  If you're rich, you have to pay for the tit for everyone else to suck on.

Take this bill back to the toilet you pulled it out of.
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Nation
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« Reply #4 on: October 08, 2004, 05:41:53 pm »

Do you know how much money the government spends  each year trying to reduce poverty?
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ilikeverin
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« Reply #5 on: October 08, 2004, 05:46:43 pm »

if this is anything like my elementary/middle school, the teacher teaches some and then watches us play.

That sounds a lot like a Montissori system, which is quite successful (and I should know! Wink)
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Jake
dubya2004
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« Reply #6 on: October 08, 2004, 06:48:36 pm »

if this is anything like my elementary/middle school, the teacher teaches some and then watches us play.

That sounds a lot like a Montissori system, which is quite successful (and I should know! Wink)
What I meant was that most teachers don't really teach you much. 
Very few teachers ( especially the ones who will be working at these government run day cares) teach you, instead they pretend to teach you, and then they become your babysitter and send you to recess.

This simply won't work because there is already a shortage of teachers.  How do you come up with all the peole to staff these day cares?  Pay them more?  More money in the program, which means using more of my money "to for the tit" to quote StevenNick.

I'm very alarmed at the slew of leftist bills on the table.
Just this term we've had the Family Planning Bill, the Marriage Equity Act, the Fed Activity Bill, and IrishDems regressive, tax the middle class bill.
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Akno21
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« Reply #7 on: October 08, 2004, 09:33:34 pm »

This act is about helping kids to learn, correct?

What kid wants to spend 13 hours at a school/daycare center?  How do you expect the staff to teach kids better than their parents?  This will just turn into government funded 13 hour school where, if this is anything like my elementary/middle school, the teacher teaches some and then watches us play.  There will be no special teaching in the large majority of these schools.  Wouldn't an expansion of the YMCA or Boys and girls clubs of America be better, instead of building more day care centers and increasing spend?

Their parents are off working three jobs, they don't have time to sit down with their kid and teach them the ABC's. Remember, this is only for people below the poverty line, it is not for everyone.
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Akno21
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« Reply #8 on: October 08, 2004, 09:37:03 pm »

So now you want the government to become the full-fledged nanny of the populace.  Really, you want the government to become the parent of all the children in poverty.  And you're going to fund this program by stealing money from all those who do not live in poverty and you're going to use a subjective definition of poverty in deciding who this program benefits.  If you're poor you get to suck off the government tit.  If you're rich, you have to pay for the tit for everyone else to suck on.

Take this bill back to the toilet you pulled it out of.

Are you saying children should be put at a disadvantage, (which they are) simply because their parent/s do not have the time or money to provide them with a sound educational foundation in life.

There is a cycle, the poor don't get a good education for many reasons, bad schools, bad habits instilled early, not enough empasis on studying, etc. Then, those people stay poor when they grow up and the cylce starts all over again.
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TeePee4Prez
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« Reply #9 on: October 09, 2004, 01:40:56 am »

I agree with this.
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Akno21
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« Reply #10 on: October 09, 2004, 04:15:06 pm »

How was this $750 million figure come to?

I would like to apoligize to the entire Senate and Atlasia. When I first wrote the draft of this bill, my math was severly off. I will now provide a more realistic cost structure.

Out of the 15 million children in poverty, 3 million are of the age for the all-day care, and of that, about 2.5 million can be expected to use it. The cost per child would be approximatly $900 when taking into account equipment and other items. That is $2.25 billion. The cost for teachers would be $5 billion, assuming you have a 15:1 child to supervisor ratio with teachers making $30,000 per year. The facilities would cost $1.25 billion, going with 200 children at each facility and new facilities costing approximatly $1 million.

For the second part, there would be approximatly 8 million students affected, and the cost would be $550 per student, considering they only use the program for about six hours per day. The cost of that is $4.4 billion. Going with a 20:1 teacher to student ratio, and the teacher's being paid $15,000 for the job, the cost of that would be $6 billion.

The total cost for the upcoming year would be $18.9 billion. The cost for all years after that would be $17.65 billion.

Again, the 750 million was a very bad estimate, and the accurate number is posted above. I apoligize for the mathamatical and logical errors.
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Jake
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« Reply #11 on: October 09, 2004, 04:42:33 pm »

Oh, my, gosh.
18.9 Billion This YEAR and 17.65 billion every other year.

I really think this money can be better spent on a stronger military and increased funding for missle defense and the F-22 fighter that SecDef Ford has asked for.
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Akno21
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« Reply #12 on: October 09, 2004, 05:18:41 pm »

Oh, my, gosh.
18.9 Billion This YEAR and 17.65 billion every other year.

I really think this money can be better spent on a stronger military and increased funding for missle defense and the F-22 fighter that SecDef Ford has asked for.

Well, I guess that pretty much sums up our contrasting priorites. You do know that we spend way more on our military than any other country, yet are we thatmuch safer than any other country.
This http://ww11.e-tractions.com/truemajority/run/oreo?rd=436 film sums up a lot of what I'm trying to say here.
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The Duke
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« Reply #13 on: October 09, 2004, 06:33:43 pm »

Well, I have to say that while I am supportive of the impetus behind the bill, and think it would be good policy in normal times, I must complain about its timing.  There is a war on, after all.  That had ought to be priority #1.

I'd hate to see the budget be strained further by this bill, since it is a luxury item of sorts.  However, I think those problems would be assyaged by a slight, say 2%, increase in the capital gains and dividend tax rates.
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Jake
dubya2004
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« Reply #14 on: October 09, 2004, 08:01:27 pm »

Oh, my, gosh.
18.9 Billion This YEAR and 17.65 billion every other year.

I really think this money can be better spent on a stronger military and increased funding for missle defense and the F-22 fighter that SecDef Ford has asked for.

Well, I guess that pretty much sums up our contrasting priorites. You do know that we spend way more on our military than any other country, yet are we thatmuch safer than any other country.
This http://ww11.e-tractions.com/truemajority/run/oreo?rd=436 film sums up a lot of what I'm trying to say here.

Yeah I'd rather the west coast not be vulnerable to Chinese/NK missles and I want our air force to have the MOST modern fighter out there.  You want to create more day care centers.
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The Duke
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« Reply #15 on: October 09, 2004, 08:09:10 pm »

There's nothing wrong with daycare.  Its just a question of prioritizing.  And might I add that it isn't an either or.  Restarting the R&D for missile defense, expanding the F-22 program, and accelerating the JSF program costs a total of $5.5 billion a year, not a sum that precludes other spending entirely.
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Akno21
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« Reply #16 on: October 09, 2004, 08:37:52 pm »

Oh, my, gosh.
18.9 Billion This YEAR and 17.65 billion every other year.

I really think this money can be better spent on a stronger military and increased funding for missle defense and the F-22 fighter that SecDef Ford has asked for.

Well, I guess that pretty much sums up our contrasting priorites. You do know that we spend way more on our military than any other country, yet are we thatmuch safer than any other country.
This http://ww11.e-tractions.com/truemajority/run/oreo?rd=436 film sums up a lot of what I'm trying to say here.

Yeah I'd rather the west coast not be vulnerable to Chinese/NK missles and I want our <a href="http://www.srch-results.com/lm/rtl.asp?k=air%20force" onmouseover="window.status='air force'; return true;" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true;">air force</a> to have the MOST modern fighter out there.  You want to create more day care centers.

Now you are taking me completely out of context. The day care centers lead to the children doing better in school, and thus in life. Having a nation filled with intelligent people and low on poverty is just as big a key to having a successful nation has having the latest bomber.

Why do you think having a great military will solve our problems? We should spend money on our education system so we can create more diplomats. We need diplomats more than we need generals. 
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The Duke
JohnD.Ford
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« Reply #17 on: October 09, 2004, 08:40:15 pm »

Might I remind dubya2004 that a smarter nation has the intellectual capital to design and build the NEXT bomber.  Education is a critical part of national defense, IMO.
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Jake
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« Reply #18 on: October 10, 2004, 09:58:00 am »

Might I remind dubya2004 that a smarter nation has the intellectual capital to design and build the NEXT bomber.  Education is a critical part of national defense, IMO.
Sure it does.

But, the Senators plan throws billions of dollars at a problem that can't always be fixed by money.  Pres Bush's NCLB threw money at a problem, but we now realize that alot of the money is stuck at the state level not being used.  The education system is full of waste.  In NYC there is that homosexual highschool.  How much did that cost in a city that needs all the education money it can get.

Right now we have a 25-30 year old fighter fleet that needs replacing.
The F-22 is the answer to replacing the F-15 fleet and restoring our air dominince.

After funding is allocated for the F-22/NMD there will be what ~12 Billion
left for Akno's education plan.  Cut out the second part about the daycare just after school and you have enough money.
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Akno21
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« Reply #19 on: October 10, 2004, 10:00:18 am »

Might I remind dubya2004 that a smarter nation has the intellectual capital to design and build the NEXT bomber.  Education is a critical part of national defense, IMO.
Sure it does.

But, the Senators plan throws billions of dollars at a problem that can't always be fixed by money.  Pres Bush's NCLB threw money at a problem, but we now realize that alot of the money is stuck at the state level not being used.  The education system is full of waste.  In NYC there is that homosexual highschool.  How much did that cost in a city that needs all the education money it can get.

Right now we have a 25-30 year old fighter fleet that needs replacing.
The F-22 is the answer to replacing the F-15 fleet and restoring our air dominince.

After funding is allocated for the F-22/NMD there will be what ~12 Billion
left for Akno's education plan.  Cut out the second part about the daycare just after school and you have enough money.

NCLB is not working because it is vastly underfunded. It raises standards, but does not provide enough in terms of meeting those standards.
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Harry
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« Reply #20 on: October 10, 2004, 10:53:38 am »

Exactly, schools can't get much done without money.
Compare Madison Central High School in Madison, MS, to Lanier High School in Jackson.  Madison Central has a lot more $$$, and therefore much more success.
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Jake
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« Reply #21 on: October 10, 2004, 01:52:31 pm »
« Edited: October 10, 2004, 01:59:27 pm by dubya2004 »

My school just got 750 K to build a new WEIGHT training facility.
Talk about a stupid alocation of money.

Another thing.  I'm pretty sure my school is on the watch list.  But it's not because we don't have enough money.  All of our computers are 5 or less years old, all our textbooks are usable, and we have excellant teachers.  Sometimes it's just the kids not wanting to learn. Every school has them.  Kids that don't do anything and don't take the tests seriously.  We replaced Gym Jr year with an extra math class, but the next yr the scores didn't improve.
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Akno21
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« Reply #22 on: October 10, 2004, 04:08:37 pm »

My school just got 750 K to build a new WEIGHT training facility.
Talk about a stupid alocation of money.

Another thing.  I'm pretty sure my school is on the watch list.  But it's not because we don't have enough money.  All of our computers are 5 or less years old, all our textbooks are usable, and we have excellant teachers.  Sometimes it's just the kids not wanting to learn. Every school has them.  Kids that don't do anything and don't take the tests seriously.  We replaced Gym Jr year with an extra math class, but the next yr the scores didn't improve.

Dubya, my bill will not give funding to build weight training facilities, not to worry.

About the kids who don't want to learn, maybe if we instilled good learning habits in them at an early age, things would be different.
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Harry
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« Reply #23 on: October 10, 2004, 04:16:30 pm »

I am in total support of this bill and its passage shall become part of my presidential platform.
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Jake
dubya2004
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« Reply #24 on: October 10, 2004, 05:30:26 pm »

My school just got 750 K to build a new WEIGHT training facility.
Talk about a stupid alocation of money.

Another thing.  I'm pretty sure my school is on the watch list.  But it's not because we don't have enough money.  All of our computers are 5 or less years old, all our textbooks are usable, and we have excellant teachers.  Sometimes it's just the kids not wanting to learn. Every school has them.  Kids that don't do anything and don't take the tests seriously.  We replaced Gym Jr year with an extra math class, but the next yr the scores didn't improve.

Dubya, my bill will not give funding to build weight training facilities, not to worry.

About the kids who don't want to learn, maybe if we instilled good learning habits in them at an early age, things would be different.
How are you going to instill good learning habits.  Most don't like school and never have.  What are you going to make them go to more school and give them less freedom? I know the last thing I wanted to do when I was 10 or 11 was stay at school or at a daycare place.  I wanted to get out and play ball or watch tv.
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