World Leaders Survivor -Stage Three - Complete

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Dean Barrow is basically yet another joke country leader who slipped through the crack, but regardless....

Angela Merkel.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Angela Merkel

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Angela Merkel

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Last year I went to my cottage with a couple of my Catholic friends, and much to my amusement, there was no Catholic church in the town, so they were forced to go to my Protestant Church with me. One of them took communion, the other didn't. It clearly said in the programme that all could take it.

Wrong thread.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Angela Merkel

Cvetkovic isn't close-mided on Kosovo, he is 100% correct. Kosovo should not be allowed independence under any circumstances whatsoever. It is Serb land.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Angela Merkel

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

The idea that your country has an inherent right to geographical areas for historical reasons and the readiness to back that idea by going to war.

Don't you support Israel?

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

The idea that your country has an inherent right to geographical areas for historical reasons and the readiness to back that idea by going to war.

Don't you support Israel?

I don't support Israel's claim to the West Bank or Gaza. See, I try to follow principles rather than blind emotion based on bigotry or prejudice against certain groups.

But the very existence of the state of Israel and Zionism is based upon what you said above.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

The Zionists claimed the land of current Israel and threw out many Arabs, like some of StatesRights' ancestors. Also they engaged in terrorism against the current rulers (the British) on the basis of that ancient claim.

Also the Croats, Bosniaks and Kosovar Albanians were also mass-murdering people 15 years ago as well, yet you have defended them as non-fascist. Plus how would you respond to someone in 1960 referring to Germany and Japan as murderous fascist countries?

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

It's too bad I won't be continue this debate much longer. Mods feel free to move it too to a different thread. But anyway:

The Zionists claimed the land of current Israel and threw out many Arabs, like some of StatesRights' ancestors. Also they engaged in terrorism against the current rulers (the British) on the basis of that ancient claim.

Also the Croats, Bosniaks and Kosovar Albanians were also mass-murdering people 15 years ago as well, yet you have defended them as non-fascist. Plus how would you respond to someone in 1960 referring to Germany and Japan as murderous fascist countries?

I don't think I used the term murderous. And had Germany given the Nazis 40-50% of the vote in the elections around 1960, celebrated their military victories and protested the Nuremberg trials as conspiracies, etc. I may have referred to them as fascist, yes. That didn't happen. They moved on. They didn't try to murder all the Jews a second time or reconquer the Rhineland in the 50s, for instance.

So if the Nazis still did strong the SPD would be fascist? I'm sure many in Serbia were upset at ICFY trials, but who was it who ousted Milosevic and handed him over? And who arrested Karadazic and handed him over? And when has Serbia recently tried ethnic cleansing or invading any other lands? Hell they even let Montenegro go.

The Serbs did most of the mass-murdering in the Balkans war. I understand that it doesn't sit well with your prejudices, but the Muslims were mostly victims in that war.

Look at the ICFY indictments list. There are Muslims on it. Muslim soldiers were notorious for murdering Orthodox priests and destroying centuries-old churches when they invaded Serb villages. There were plenty of instances of Muslim atrocities against Serb civilians.

The Albanians were hardly at the centre of it at all.

No, but they were the ones who started the Kosovo campaign and attacking Serb villages, extorting other Albanians, bombing bars and cafes in attempt to target Serb leaders, etc. The Kosovo Liberation Army was proscribed as a terrorist organization prior to 1998.

The Croats, sure. They have a long history of fascism. It just seems to me that they moved on after the war a lot better than the Serbs did.

That must be why Franjo Tudman's party is still in power. Or why there were riots in Zagreb when Ante Gotovina was arrested (Converse to the Serbs who arrested Milosevic and Karadazic themselves.) Or why there have been instances of Croat fans forming swastikas in the stands at football matches. Or why it's a well known fact that any discussion of the Ustashe on Croat radio gets tons of calls in support of them. Etc.

You also seem to forget that the Serbs were the imperialists here. They were forcing all the others to live under their rule against their will.

Oh really?

Secessionist Serb areas in Croatia:

Serb population at the time of Yugoslavia's breakup:

You seem to think that my defence of Israel necessarily means that I support Zionism. It doesn't. I don't want to turn this into a debate thread on Israel and Palestine, so I think you should move it somewhere else. My view is simply that telling people who live somewhere that they don't have a right because they don't belong there is wrong. Saying that Israelis have a right to live where they live now in the state of Israel, that Palestinians have a right to the West Bank and Gaza where they live now and that Albanians have a right to Kosovo where they live now is all in analogy with this. You are claiming that people can forever claim land which is theirs by ancient history, as in Kosovo. This should logically make you support Israel's claim not just to Gaza or the West Bank but to all of Jordan. Of course, lots of people could then claim different lands and everything gets pretty confused.

First of all, might I note a logical contradiction here. You claim my previous positions are due to alleged anti-Muslim bigotry, yet if that were the case I would support Israeli claims to the West Bank and Gaza.

And I'm referring to Israel's foundation. What claim did they have to the land of modern-day Israel in 1931? None except that they lived there thousands of years ago. And then they engaged in terrorism to seize the land.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Merkel

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Merkel already.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Tusk. He's far from the worst possible leader of Poland (though he's also not really the leader either.) but he doesn't belong this far out.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

What's it with righties being supporters of brutal Indonesian imperialism?

John Key

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Amadou Toumani Toure as the best means of protecting Stoltenberg.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Johnson Sirleaf

And I would like to add that removing Toure, one of the best African leaders to save Stoltenberg, a rather doubtful leader, is pretty low.

The reason I like Stoltenberg so much is mostly Scandinavian pride. I'd want Reinfeldt to win if he wasn't from the more conservative party just like I was for Persson last time (I am to Sweden what Phil is to Italy), so Stoltenberg is now my favorite of the remaining leaders.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Ellen Johnson-Sirleaf

I do feel kind of bad for helping vote off Toure, as he was a more deserving one to have the honor of the final African leader remaining rather than her.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Boo! I have to root for Sigursdardottir now.

Ellen Johnson-Sirleaf

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Ellen Johnson-Sirleaf

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

I like both Pahor and Sigursdardottir, but I prefer Sigursdardottir, not because of lesbianism (Which I wasn't even aware of), but Scandinavianism, same reason I liked Stoltenberg so much. Of course I'd prefer the Swedish leader if the Social Democrats were still in power.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Manmohan Singh. Good guy but he's already won.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Sigursdardottir

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Sigursdardottir

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Fredrik Reinfeldt.

If Sigursdardottir wins this I'll be a bit embarassed. The woman has been in power less than a year and leads a teeny, tiny country that tried to get rich fast by reckless financial transactions and connections with the Russian mafia.

She isn't bad or anything but she hasn't done anything and is like half the leader of any of the last 10 or so.

You could say the same thing about Nasheed. Yeah he ousted a long-standing dictator and that's awesome, but there were other leaders voted off who also fought for democracy in countries more important than one with less population than my city that has virtually no economy beyond tourism, much like those Carribean and Oceania leaders who got voted for leading "joke countries". He also has been in office for less than a year in an even smaller country than Iceland.

I'm not anti-Nasheed and wouldn't be too bothered by him winning (and I think he will actually), but he's not really any more important than Sigursdardottir.

[I spent the winter writing songs about getting better]

Mohamed Nasheed