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  Are new hampshire and Maine libertarian?
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Author Topic: Are new hampshire and Maine libertarian?  (Read 4964 times)
Farage
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« on: July 10, 2009, 01:41:58 am »

what are your thoughs?
 I heard that both states are fiscal conservative and social liberal or moderate ...
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JSojourner
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« Reply #1 on: July 10, 2009, 08:16:26 am »

The tired, old "slay the beast" mantra has worn very thin among millions of Americans, especially those in aging states.  No.
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Obnoxiously Slutty Girly Girl
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« Reply #2 on: July 10, 2009, 11:10:03 am »

Lots of Taxachusetts leftists escaping the socialist cesspool they created have really ruined the traditional libertarian/independent streak of New Hampshire. It's still libertarian by New England standards though.

Like Vermont, Maine is socially libertarian but absolutely terrible in terms of economic freedom.
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DariusNJ
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« Reply #3 on: July 10, 2009, 11:57:19 am »


 I heard that both states are fiscal conservative and social liberal or moderate ...

I think that description fits New Hampshire pretty well. I'm not sure about Maine, although I do know that Maine has a high number of independents (38%).
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Vepres
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« Reply #4 on: July 10, 2009, 12:05:57 pm »

Lots of Taxachusetts leftists escaping the socialist cesspool they created have really ruined the traditional libertarian/independent streak of New Hampshire. It's still libertarian by New England standards though.

Like Vermont, Maine is socially libertarian but absolutely terrible in terms of economic freedom.

Of note, legally New Hampshire is the most libertarian state. Followed by Colorado!
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War on Want
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« Reply #5 on: July 10, 2009, 02:15:40 pm »

No.
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Rob
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« Reply #6 on: July 10, 2009, 04:21:59 pm »

You might hear differently on the Internets, but no state in the US is "libertarian."

Lots of Taxachusetts leftists escaping the socialist cesspool they created have really ruined the traditional libertarian/independent streak of New Hampshire.

Um, tax-evading Massachusetts losers pushed New Hampshire far to the right in the 1980s. As would be expected by anyone with a modicum of political knowledge.
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Franzl
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« Reply #7 on: July 10, 2009, 04:25:06 pm »

I think New Hampshire is the most libertarian state in the nation....whatever that means.

Maine not so much, I think they have a somewhat blue collar populist streak.
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Lief 🐋
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« Reply #8 on: July 10, 2009, 04:31:59 pm »

Like Rob said, no state is libertarian. Not Colorado. Not Montana. Not New Hampshire. Not Alaska.
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Obnoxiously Slutty Girly Girl
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« Reply #9 on: July 10, 2009, 04:40:47 pm »

Um, tax-evading Massachusetts losers pushed New Hampshire far to the right in the 1980s. As would be expected by anyone with a modicum of political knowledge.
Whether your dubious commentary on the 1980s is true or not is irrelevant.

What is relevant is that, since 2000, there has been a study exodus of Massachusetts residents into New Hampshire, many fleeing from the former's high taxes and lousy leadership. Despite their original reasons for leaving, they've continued to vote Democratic and as a result the state has become more and more like its one-party socialist state neighbors.

An article on this phenomenon from just a few months ago:

Invading New Hampshire
How the Bay State transformed its northern neighbor.

Quote
For years, the folks in the Granite State would chortle about how alluring their brand of low-tax living must be to Massachusetts residents. In fact, it seems, it was. From 2000 to 2006, even as Massachusetts's population remained stagnant, New Hampshire grew by 6.4 percent, according to a 2008 report from UNH's Carsey Institute. Most of that population increase was due to migration from other states, and the number one contributor was metropolitan Boston. During that time, New Hampshire had a net gain of 44,000 from this region.

And why the rush to move north? A Globe poll from 2006 found that most who left Massachusetts did so because of our high cost of living. Another 30 percent cited taxes and a good chunk -- more than 10 percent -- named the state's liberal politics and political leadership.

How deliciously ironic. All of those emigres may have thought they had abandoned Massachusetts, but it appears many carried its politics with them. On the streets of Nashua and Manchester, they're now building their own little Bay States. Why are they re-creating the very thing they left behind?

My guess is that while it's easy to complain about state government in general, when it comes to specifics, people like having the government take care of them. Onetime Massachusetts residents are still in thrall to the lures of well-funded schools, decent roads, and readily available healthcare. That's what they were promised by the Democrats in Massachusetts, and that's why they're now voting Democratic in New Hampshire. Is all of this a good thing or bad? Well, we've seen this story before: A Democratic hegemony. The slow death of the Republican Party. How much longer until New Hampshire's own version of the Big Dig?



But thanks for the insult which lets us know you are as rude as you are ignorant, Rob.
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TheresNoMoney
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« Reply #10 on: July 10, 2009, 04:50:36 pm »

The article directly above this post is wrong. THe majority of Mass. residents who have moved to New Hampshire vote Republican. The border towns where Mass. transplants are moving (Salem, Windham, Hudson, Atkinson, etc.) are the most heavily Republican towns in the state.

It is NH natives and transplants from other states that have flocked to the Democratic party in recent years.
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Smash255
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« Reply #11 on: July 10, 2009, 05:07:39 pm »

Lots of Taxachusetts leftists escaping the socialist cesspool they created have really ruined the traditional libertarian/independent streak of New Hampshire. It's still libertarian by New England standards though.

Like Vermont, Maine is socially libertarian but absolutely terrible in terms of economic freedom.

The whole Taxachusetts label is and always has been a right wing lie.

As far the original question no.  Maine is pretty much and all around liberal state, New Hampshire may have some libertarian leanings, is socially liberal, but is more economically moderate than economically conservative.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #12 on: July 10, 2009, 07:26:52 pm »

Actually the above posters are right that suburban whites fleeing Massachusetts helped push the state to the Right in the 80's and 90's. While the orther Northern New England States like Vermont and Maine were left relatively unchanged and have since moved much farther to the left then New Hampshire if anything New Hampshire moved in the opposite direction, towards the GOP. The continued trends among Native New Hampshire residents, migrants from other states, and Canada have since 2000 moved the State to the left.

Neither are libertarian. Maine is a socially Liberal, economically moderate to populist state. New Hampshire is a fiscally conservative(but decreasingly so) socially moderate state. If the GOP in Northern New England could somehow seperate itself from the National GOP they could indeed restore some modicum of success in Maine, New Hampshire, and even in Vermont.
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Brittain33
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« Reply #13 on: July 10, 2009, 08:06:08 pm »

Maine tops the charts for taxes as a share of per capita income. That's a measure of both how high taxes are and how much poorer the state is than places like New York or New Jersey that would otherwise compete. It's hard to call that libertarian.

What distinguishes Maine and New Hampshire, I suppose, is lower rates of religiosity than most other parts of the country. That translates loosely into libertarianism on a few fronts.
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Holmes
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« Reply #14 on: July 10, 2009, 08:13:49 pm »

Did you just say that Maine has a lower amount of religiosity than normal? That's crazy and you know it.
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Saxwsylvania
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« Reply #15 on: July 10, 2009, 08:15:23 pm »

Did you just say that Maine has a lower amount of religiosity than normal? That's crazy and you know it.

... Seems about right to me ...
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DariusNJ
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« Reply #16 on: July 10, 2009, 08:34:07 pm »

Actually the above posters are right that suburban whites fleeing Massachusetts helped push the state to the Right in the 80's and 90's. While the orther Northern New England States like Vermont and Maine were left relatively unchanged and have since moved much farther to the left then New Hampshire if anything New Hampshire moved in the opposite direction, towards the GOP. The continued trends among Native New Hampshire residents, migrants from other states, and Canada have since 2000 moved the State to the left.

Neither are libertarian. Maine is a socially Liberal, economically moderate to populist state. New Hampshire is a fiscally conservative(but decreasingly so) socially moderate state. If the GOP in Northern New England could somehow seperate itself from the National GOP they could indeed restore some modicum of success in Maine, New Hampshire, and even in Vermont.

The Republican Party in Maine seems pretty strong. They have 2 Republican senators (albeit very moderate ones).
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Brittain33
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« Reply #17 on: July 10, 2009, 09:13:23 pm »
« Edited: July 10, 2009, 09:15:11 pm by brittain33 »

Did you just say that Maine has a lower amount of religiosity than normal? That's crazy and you know it.

I'm pretty certain New England states have lower religious observance than other states. Definitely true for New Hampshire. Do you have data to the contrary?

http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2009/03/09/number_of_ne_catholics_tumbles/

"Silk said the study found that Irish-Americans, along with people of Jewish ancestry and Asian-Americans, are disproportionately represented among those who report no religious affiliation.

"The other thing is that New England Catholics have become sort of like New England Protestants - not particularly attached" to religion, he said. Northern New England is now less religious than the Pacific Northwest - long the nation's least religious region - the study found."
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Rob
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« Reply #18 on: July 10, 2009, 09:46:46 pm »

The article directly above this post is wrong. The majority of Mass. residents who have moved to New Hampshire vote Republican. The border towns where Mass. transplants are moving (Salem, Windham, Hudson, Atkinson, etc.) are the most heavily Republican towns in the state.

It is NH natives and transplants from other states that have flocked to the Democratic party in recent years.

Good to see you post again, Scoonie. Smiley Republicans have a bizarre attachment to the myth that "out-of-staters"- whether it's "New Yorkers" in Vermont or "Taxachusetts leftists" in New Hampshire- are primarily responsible for shifting states to the left.

He said leftists you twat.

"Leftists" moving to New Hampshire are heavily outnumbered by Republicans, twat.
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Smash255
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« Reply #19 on: July 10, 2009, 09:58:25 pm »

Actually the above posters are right that suburban whites fleeing Massachusetts helped push the state to the Right in the 80's and 90's. While the orther Northern New England States like Vermont and Maine were left relatively unchanged and have since moved much farther to the left then New Hampshire if anything New Hampshire moved in the opposite direction, towards the GOP. The continued trends among Native New Hampshire residents, migrants from other states, and Canada have since 2000 moved the State to the left.

Neither are libertarian. Maine is a socially Liberal, economically moderate to populist state. New Hampshire is a fiscally conservative(but decreasingly so) socially moderate state. If the GOP in Northern New England could somehow seperate itself from the National GOP they could indeed restore some modicum of success in Maine, New Hampshire, and even in Vermont.

The Republican Party in Maine seems pretty strong. They have 2 Republican senators (albeit very moderate ones).

That is all they basically have.  Governor is a Democrat, both members of Congress are Democrats, both the state Senate (20-15) and State House (95-55-1) are controlled by the Dems as well.
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Obnoxiously Slutty Girly Girl
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« Reply #20 on: July 10, 2009, 10:36:19 pm »


"Leftists" moving to New Hampshire are heavily outnumbered by Republicans, twat.

No proof of this claim has been demonstrated. Presumably anecdotal claims from a New Hampshire Democrat are not particularly convincing. Talk to New Hampshire Republicans or conservative/libertarian independents (and I have) and they'll say just the opposite, that its the "Massholes" that are ruining their state.

Of course there are Republicans and independents among the migrants, but there is no reason to believe that they "heavily outnumber" Democrats.

The Boston Globe Magazine article I posted was neither the first nor the only source to at least partially attribute NH's leftward trend to migration from other states. To simply claim it is "wrong" is wrong.
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Alcon
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« Reply #21 on: July 10, 2009, 10:40:03 pm »

Libertas,

Chill, chill, this is something considered "common knowledge" around the forum.  It may be incorrect (hard thing to quantify) but it's not laziness on the poster's part.

There have been two polls that I remember, one in 2004 and one in 2008, that asked poll respondents in NH if they had migrated from Massachusetts.  Considerable sample sizes; may have been the entire poll, in fact.  In both instances, the Massachusetts emigres were more Republican than the general population.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #22 on: July 10, 2009, 10:49:50 pm »

Actually the above posters are right that suburban whites fleeing Massachusetts helped push the state to the Right in the 80's and 90's. While the orther Northern New England States like Vermont and Maine were left relatively unchanged and have since moved much farther to the left then New Hampshire if anything New Hampshire moved in the opposite direction, towards the GOP. The continued trends among Native New Hampshire residents, migrants from other states, and Canada have since 2000 moved the State to the left.

Neither are libertarian. Maine is a socially Liberal, economically moderate to populist state. New Hampshire is a fiscally conservative(but decreasingly so) socially moderate state. If the GOP in Northern New England could somehow seperate itself from the National GOP they could indeed restore some modicum of success in Maine, New Hampshire, and even in Vermont.

The Republican Party in Maine seems pretty strong. They have 2 Republican senators (albeit very moderate ones).

Yes but Collins and Snowe do not have complete control as evidenced by the 2006 Governor nominee. If one of the other two guys had won the primary we would probably have a GOP Governor in Maine today.

Did you just say that Maine has a lower amount of religiosity than normal? That's crazy and you know it.

I'm pretty certain New England states have lower religious observance than other states. Definitely true for New Hampshire. Do you have data to the contrary?

http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2009/03/09/number_of_ne_catholics_tumbles/

"Silk said the study found that Irish-Americans, along with people of Jewish ancestry and Asian-Americans, are disproportionately represented among those who report no religious affiliation.

"The other thing is that New England Catholics have become sort of like New England Protestants - not particularly attached" to religion, he said. Northern New England is now less religious than the Pacific Northwest - long the nation's least religious region - the study found."


100 years ago I will bet that Northern New England would have beat many other regions of the country in religiousity. Why has this been almost completely reversed since then? The children of overly religious parents breaking away yet keeping there affliations to there churches. I mean there is almost nothing Puritanical about the Congregationalist or Unitarian churches anymore.
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Smash255
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« Reply #23 on: July 10, 2009, 10:51:15 pm »


"Leftists" moving to New Hampshire are heavily outnumbered by Republicans, twat.

No proof of this claim has been demonstrated. Presumably anecdotal claims from a New Hampshire Democrat are not particularly convincing. Talk to New Hampshire Republicans or conservative/libertarian independents (and I have) and they'll say just the opposite, that its the "Massholes" that are ruining their state.

Of course there are Republicans and independents among the migrants, but there is no reason to believe that they "heavily outnumber" Democrats.

The Boston Globe Magazine article I posted was neither the first nor the only source to at least partially attribute NH's leftward trend to migration from other states. To simply claim it is "wrong" is wrong.


The area where the majority of the former Massachusetts residents have moved to is southern portions of NH (suburban Boston).  That area has moved Democratic at a MUCH smaller pace than the rest of the state.  

Grafton county being the one which has swung the most, Gore won it by less than 1 point in 2000, Kerry by a little under 13 in 04, and Obama by almost 28.  Not a place where many former MA residents have gone.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #24 on: July 10, 2009, 10:54:39 pm »

Actually the above posters are right that suburban whites fleeing Massachusetts helped push the state to the Right in the 80's and 90's. While the orther Northern New England States like Vermont and Maine were left relatively unchanged and have since moved much farther to the left then New Hampshire if anything New Hampshire moved in the opposite direction, towards the GOP. The continued trends among Native New Hampshire residents, migrants from other states, and Canada have since 2000 moved the State to the left.

Neither are libertarian. Maine is a socially Liberal, economically moderate to populist state. New Hampshire is a fiscally conservative(but decreasingly so) socially moderate state. If the GOP in Northern New England could somehow seperate itself from the National GOP they could indeed restore some modicum of success in Maine, New Hampshire, and even in Vermont.

The Republican Party in Maine seems pretty strong. They have 2 Republican senators (albeit very moderate ones).

That is all they basically have.  Governor is a Democrat, both members of Congress are Democrats, both the state Senate (20-15) and State House (95-55-1) are controlled by the Dems as well.

True but it is generally beleived that if the Republicans were to recover in New England it would have to start in Maine since it has become relatively stable at least while Republicans are still in a downward spiral in New Hampshire.
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